2 hours ago, YasukiKaito said:

Um - I think we would like to point out that it took an actual (big K) Kami to take down the glorious Great Bear. Otherwise Crab would clearly be ruling the empire and the strongest and most deserving Clan.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

The crab couldn't even beat Toturi at Beiden! Kanpeki flat out took on the empire and crushed them utterly over three major victories.

Crabs do one thing well, they stand on their wall until the villain is allowed to crush them to progress the plot. They are pretty good at that.

2 hours ago, Shiba Gunichi said:

Smacktalk aside... Yajinden was one of the best Shadowlands-affiliated villains we ever got.

Yajinden is best. He looked the best, planned the best, killed minor clans the best... hell, 90% of what happens only happened because he forged the Blood Swords. He causes almost all of the major aspects of the story.

8 minutes ago, TheItsyBitsySpider said:

Crabs do one thing well, they stand on their wall until the villain is allowed to crush them to progress the plot. They are pretty good at that.

Not gonna lie - pretty hard to argue that point

But we look, like, super cool while we do it at least.

Before I can start smacktalking people, I need to pick a clan.

Of course, regardless of what clan I choose, I can still comfortably mock the Crane Clan because, come on, nobody likes them :P.

I havent heard any Dragon smack yet.

I mean come on they eat goats, and spout mysterious gibberish at every opportunity.

2 hours ago, profparm said:

When I was a teenager I remember the smack talk about crane, especially to new players choosing their clan, was specifically homophobic enough that young boys weren't going to take the faction they were being told was gay.

After playing more I played it a lot, because I'm a control player and they did control solitaire better than any other clan, but I had lots of opponents roll their eyes and refer to my faction as "fairies".

When the crowd got smaller and less people were playing this stopped happening, but looking back I'm surprised I stuck it out just because I enjoyed a playstyle.

That's specifically the kind of thing that I want to see go away. I'm going to make an effort not to perpetuate that, and to not let it seep into my playgroup either.

3 hours ago, KakitaKaori said:

Yes. This was my experience also. To an extent that went on. And on. And on. For years. In every single online multi-clan conversation about L5R. During play for about a quarter of the games I played too. I wasn't even playing control. People thought they were being original...but every Crane player had heard it so many times that it wasn't funny or smack talk any more. That, and smack talk about being cowardly and 'not in the face' or being girly...(with whatever that is supposed to imply about my gender too...

Whereas I was thinking it's pretty cool and brave to be an unarmored poet facing down alone a hardened warrior in heavy armor with nothing but 3 feet of steel and your skill to defend the home you love...

I figured this is what you were getting at in the original post, and I think that as a player base we just need to be aware that this is a toxic form of "banter". Offer them a compliment on having the second best duelists in the Empire, ask how this year's siege against the Lion is going, or about the price of beachfront property at Kyuden Doji. There are plenty of opportunities to have fun humorous banter in-setting without going to sexism or homophobia.

2 hours ago, KakitaKaori said:

And yet, Scorpion are the ones that are actually OK with corruption, and pride themselves on doing corrupt things (for the greater good of course), whereas the Crane believe that it is better to kill yourself than do anything dishonorable, and the Phoenix believe in pacifism and study. You may try surprising your players sometime with Clans actually trying to live up to be what they (and their players) actually are with the same latitude you give Scorpion.

Do you also make stories about Crab running away and hiding from the Shadowlands? What about Greedy Lions? A cruel Unicorn Lord who oppresses his people? Or is only Crane and Phoenix that get to be treated like that?

Sorry...different topic. And more peevish than I intended. Of course you can make your villains anything you like. It's just something that seems to happen with Crane/Phoenix that doesn't happen with other clans.

Part of that comes from the fact that they strive for their perfection. Who cares if a Scorpion lies in a deal, you practically expect it and you'll probably be willing to deal with them again, and enjoy trying to rip them off in the next transaction. If a Crane is found committing extortion it's completely different. I think the Crane and Phoenix set themselves up to be better villains because they hold themselves so highly in society. Plus - I swear the Phoenix are always up to some cultish shenanigans.

Unicorn are typically treated very well in my storytelling, but I only really use Ide magistrates. I should really have a contingent of heavy Utaku cavalry run down on the party at some point

I should clarify that part of the story is always derived from the group. Granted, I am typically the one filling their heads with images of what Rokugan is, but I haven't had anyone play a Crane yet, and I've only had 1 play Phoenix. Dragon, Crab, Lion, and Mantis are the usual characters that my friends use.

46 minutes ago, Kuni Katsuyoshi said:

I havent heard any Dragon smack yet.

I mean come on they eat goats, and spout mysterious gibberish at every opportunity.

You dont need to insult the Dragon, that requires actually reminding people they exist first.

Yeah, I have seen every clan painted as the villain in RP terms. I find that a lot of players approach the game with western ideals and approaches. You can set a player who dislikes the feudal idea of peasantry up in opposition of a samurai who orders them to do something that sets them at odds with that, and when the player balks, the samurai (rightly, in world) becomes their adversary for that arc. Likewise, a player may need to do something or go somewhere that an honorable samurai has been told that no one may do or go.

1 hour ago, Kuni Katsuyoshi said:

I havent heard any Dragon smack yet.

I mean come on they eat goats, and spout mysterious gibberish at every opportunity.

What is smack talk?

13 minutes ago, Joe From Cincinnati said:

What is smack talk?

For example, what anyone not from Ohio says about the Bengals (or the Browns, for that matter).

Also goes by talking trash/ trash talk.

1 hour ago, Zesu Shadaban said:

For example, what anyone not from Ohio says about the Bengals (or the Browns, for that matter).

Also goes by talking trash/ trash talk.

The correct answer was "What is not smack talk?"

2 minutes ago, Joe From Cincinnati said:

The correct answer was "What is not smack talk?"

"This," says the Crab, and bashes the silly Dragon's head in with a Jade Tetsubo.

45 minutes ago, Joe From Cincinnati said:

The correct answer was "What is not smack talk?"

I'm seriously considering handing out slaps for overuse of the 'What is wisdom?' gag.

6 hours ago, KakitaKaori said:

Yes. This was my experience also. To an extent that went on. And on. And on. For years. In every single online multi-clan conversation about L5R. During play for about a quarter of the games I played too. I wasn't even playing control. People thought they were being original...but every Crane player had heard it so many times that it wasn't funny or smack talk any more. That, and smack talk about being cowardly and 'not in the face' or being girly...(with whatever that is supposed to imply about my gender too...

Whereas I was thinking it's pretty cool and brave to be an unarmored poet facing down alone a hardened warrior in heavy armor with nothing but 3 feet of steel and your skill to defend the home you love...

Five names (among many):

Kakita Noritoshi

Daidoji Uji

Asahina Sekawa

Doji Reju

Doji Kurohito

5 of the manliest Rokugani of all time, all from the Crane Clan.

I didn't even include Yasuki Hachi (but the Crab got him in the end)

1 minute ago, HirumaShigure said:

Five names (among many):

Kakita Noritoshi

Daidoji Uji

Asahina Sekawa

Doji Reju

Doji Kurohito

5 of the manliest Rokugani of all time, all from the Crane Clan.

I didn't even include Yasuki Hachi (but the Crab got him in the end)

Doji Kuwanan

Daidoji Kikaze

As long as were having an 'up with Crane' moment, we shouldn't leave the ladies out.

Crane women will get drunk, and climb up onto a rooftops.

My kinda women

Sekawa stank to high heaven.

Kyuden Doji Delenda Est.

1 minute ago, Shiba Gunichi said:

Sekawa stank to high heaven.

Kyuden Doji Delenda Est.

Not a fan of butch Asahina?

Not a fan of a guy so "enlightened" her forgot how to do the basics of his job...

And while I hate the Crane in general, the Asahina are the only Crane I despise for non-metafictional reasons.

7 minutes ago, Shiba Gunichi said:

Not a fan of a guy so "enlightened" her forgot how to do the basics of his job...

And while I hate the Crane in general, the Asahina are the only Crane I despise for non-metafictional reasons.

I thought the 'enlightenment' plot was icky.

Another excuse to dropkick a lot a folks at once

Daigotsu was born of a crane mother... they literally spawn evil itself. I would say burn them down, but with my Susumu family all but gone I need another "smiling but totally evil" courtier family to work with so I need to keep the Doji around.

22 hours ago, Kiseki said:

That was my post, actually. It made me feel horrible about playing my faction.

When someone tells me that I'm playing "Scorpion tricks" and that they don't trust me after declaring a battle when I play something that seems too straightforward, that's all fine and good. I cultivated the reputation for liking out-of-the-box plays so that I could play straight line when I wanted to without necessarily giving it away.

I could easily see myself making a joke like that, but I hope I would make it clear to the player that it's all in jest, and nothing against them. I certainly wouldn't demand that they do something beyond the rules of the game (such as reshuffling).

22 hours ago, Mirith said:

A lot of it depends on your behavior as well, and as long as you aren't making personal attacks (including decks, as many people get personal about their decks), you should be fine. That being said, don't act up to your clan's negative stereotypes. Don't cheat as a Scorpion, don't be a haughty jerk as a Crane, bathe and wear pants as a Crab, don't sacrifice people to your dark god as a Phoenix. Mostly it is just common courtesy.

Don't always hit your target as Wasp. Don't always revere your founder--Yoratomato--as Mantis.

22 hours ago, TheItsyBitsySpider said:

I never miss a chance to remind the Mantis that they sold out their very God for a thousand US dollars.

Could you elaborate? I'm not sure I was around for that. (Either that or I ignored it because it had nothing to do with Tsuruchi.)

Personally, I never miss a chance to remind people that our founder warned everyone that if the Mantis couldn't be a Great Clan we'd just as soon see the entire Empire destroyed. AEG ignored him and...well...

21 hours ago, KakitaKaori said:

But what if the smack talk is, say, about the Lion being cowardly? Or Tainty. The player doing that smack talk might have a reason for it (the Lion never attack alone, for example, or because of Kitsu Osen), but the Lion player doesn't feel like that is an appealing feature of their clan, so it would grate if /everyone/ started saying that smack talk. It impinges and condemns the image of their clan. Or calling Scorpion incompetent for their many failures. Does that happen for players of other clans? Does it bother them?

Oh, who would call the Lion cowardly? Not like those Unicorn. "Oh, we're afraid of charging headlong into your spears and arrows, so we'll just attack this nice, safe, undefended province over here!" Bunch of craven, lily-livered dastards! Just let us kill you for a moment, and see how you like it!

20 hours ago, Kuni Katsuyoshi said:

They had cool boats.

Too bad everything happens on dry land.

Meh. Arrows fly just as well over land as they do over sea.

18 hours ago, Kuni Katsuyoshi said:

I havent heard any Dragon smack yet.

I mean come on they eat goats, and spout mysterious gibberish at every opportunity.

Exactly. They make it too easy and take all the fun out of it!

2 minutes ago, JJ48 said:

Don't always hit your target as Wasp. Don't always revere your founder--Yoratomato--as Mantis.

Personally, I never miss a chance to remind people that our founder warned everyone that if the Mantis couldn't be a Great Clan we'd just as soon see the entire Empire destroyed. AEG ignored him and...well...

Meh. Arrows fly just as well over land as they do over sea.

I have one thing to say about the Tsuruchi.

Ashinagabachi (gesundheit)

23 hours ago, KakitaKaori said:

That, and smack talk about being cowardly and 'not in the face' or being girly...(with whatever that is supposed to imply about my gender too...

Whereas I was thinking it's pretty cool and brave to be an unarmored poet facing down alone a hardened warrior in heavy armor with nothing but 3 feet of steel and your skill to defend the home you love...

SOLID. I hope you pointed this out when someone tried labeling the clan as cowardly.