In L5R people often play and are pretty fond of and become closely affiliated with their clans, including getting tattoos, the whole nine yards. This seems to lead to a certain amount of smack talk, both online and in person, where players enthusiastic about their clans talk up their clans and put down other clans as a spirit excercise.

So...I'm wondering...how bad does that get within people's own local communities? Is there a line about how far it should go before it has gone too far? Do you ever get sick of it? Or do you enjoy it? What if you're on the opposite side?

Things had been really quiet on the online 'smacktalk' for a long time, both because of the pause in the game and some of the old tropes were so obviously wrong that people gave up on them. But as enthusiasm for the new product grows, I see a little of it creeping back. I was wondering how it is out there in the world for other people.

In general, it's fairly tame. I enjoy a little bit of banter around clan choices, but taken to extremes it is harmful to the playerbase as a whole. For example I've gotten the "you are a Scorpion, so you probably cheat at the card game" line several times. It's really infuriating because, banter aside, I keep my in-clan persona distinct from the player playing the game.

I'm personally trying to avoid giving negative asides about Clans I don't like when I show them to new players.

I love the smacktalk personally, although I would typically only engage in it with my playgroup/friends and in a good-natured, ribbing kind of fashion. I saw a post here a while ago that I think drew a pretty solid line, it was along the lines of: 'Scorpion players are untrustworthy, so I'm going to request that you shuffle your deck again while I watch' which I would characterize as too far, implying a real negative trait about the character of the individual playing the game. In general though I think the banter is part of the experience. The more creative the better!

12 minutes ago, YasukiKaito said:

I love the smacktalk personally, although I would typically only engage in it with my playgroup/friends and in a good-natured, ribbing kind of fashion. I saw a post here a while ago that I think drew a pretty solid line, it was along the lines of: 'Scorpion players are untrustworthy, so I'm going to request that you shuffle your deck again while I watch' which I would characterize as too far, implying a real negative trait about the character of the individual playing the game. In general though I think the banter is part of the experience. The more creative the better!

That was my post, actually. It made me feel horrible about playing my faction.

When someone tells me that I'm playing "Scorpion tricks" and that they don't trust me after declaring a battle when I play something that seems too straightforward, that's all fine and good. I cultivated the reputation for liking out-of-the-box plays so that I could play straight line when I wanted to without necessarily giving it away.

A lot of it depends on your behavior as well, and as long as you aren't making personal attacks (including decks, as many people get personal about their decks), you should be fine. That being said, don't act up to your clan's negative stereotypes. Don't cheat as a Scorpion, don't be a haughty jerk as a Crane, bathe and wear pants as a Crab, don't sacrifice people to your dark god as a Phoenix. Mostly it is just common courtesy.

"Yo mama makes Oni no Tsuburu look like Bayushi Kachiko"

Too far?

I think proper smack talk is entirely focused on the clan, their tactics and fiction, and clan personalities, but NEVER the player. I would have no problems with people talking about Scorpion being liars and cheaters, but if someone genuinely thought I was cheating I would be taken back... I am above all a very honest and fair player, and often help newer players learn the ins and outs of games, and am always forthcoming about my own strategies and tactics as I believe we only get as good as our competition, and letting people know exactly what I'm doing tests me more. There needs to be a clear separation between talking about a clan and the player who uses them.

I do remember one time when I first played L5R there was a larger game we were playing, we happened to have 6 people all of different clans. I was Scorpion and found myself a quick target of Lion and Crane. They rushed me down and out of the game within the first few turns, and no one on the table would ally with me to defend, even though I was 1) new to the game, 2) not particularly good at it, and 3) down to just 1 province... It felt pretty bad :\ They scared the others out of it with myths about Scorpion dishonor decks running everyone down... I had nothing of the sort, and ironically the Crane won by honor victory shortly after...

4 minutes ago, Ishi Tonu said:

"Yo mama makes Oni no Tsuburu look like Bayushi Kachiko"

Too far?

"Who?"

Also:

"Her?"

"Smacktalk" has gone quiet! You and I must live in different internet circles, I never miss an opportunity to remind the lesser clans that the Spider won the CCG, Hantei Kanpeki rules Rokugan, Seiken broke the deal and caused it, Daigotsu got exactly what he wanted in the end, as fitting for the main protagonist, and there is nothing that will ever change that because of the time retcon.

I harvest that salt like a mine, such a rich vein of disgruntled fans.

I never miss a chance to remind the Crab that the only difference between Kisada and Kanpeki was that Kanpeki actually pulled it off.

I never miss a chance to remind the Crane that everything is actually their fault because of Yajinden's Blood Sword causing the Coup.

I never miss a chance to remind the Scorpion that they actually ARENT a clan of Batman just because they like to play ninja.

I never miss a chance to remind the Mantis that they sold out their very God for a thousand US dollars.

I never miss a chance to remind the Phoenix that the only difference between them and Crane is that Crane do the Maho part better

I never miss a chance to remind the Dragon that their "Empress" lost the minute Daddy D rose to God hood and never had a chance.

I never miss a chance to remind the Unicorn that they are wonderful and perfect in every way.... what? I like the Unicorn, bite me!

The banter is the best part of this hobby, its like rooting for sports teams, but its over fake samurai. I've made very good friends arguing over the tiniest arguing points regarding the clans while cheering and booing various factions. Only rarely have I ever seen it get heated and even the best arguments still simmer after a while.

But then again, I was a spider player. We were the hated faction filled with literally the nicest people imaginable. So we may taunt and laugh at the silly crab, trying to fool themselves into thinking they didn't have their 1000 year running streak broken by an indian goddess and a roman, but we will still happily sit down and have a few drinks, because in the end we both can look over at the crane and mock them and vise versa.

It would suck that in-character traits would be used against other players in a serious manner... that's nonsense.

5 minutes ago, TheItsyBitsySpider said:

I never miss a chance to remind the Mantis that they sold out their very God for a thousand US dollars.

I left the game for awhile, but I still caught every reference but this. Can you please elaborate?

21 minutes ago, Mirith said:

A lot of it depends on your behavior as well, and as long as you aren't making personal attacks (including decks, as many people get personal about their decks), you should be fine. That being said, don't act up to your clan's negative stereotypes. Don't cheat as a Scorpion, don't be a haughty jerk as a Crane, bathe and wear pants as a Crab, don't sacrifice people to your dark god as a Phoenix. Mostly it is just common courtesy.

So I have to bathe AND wear pants?.....whats next? a tux?

Just now, Kuni Katsuyoshi said:

So I have to bathe AND wear pants?.....whats next? a tux?

I suppose long skirts are acceptable. And please, Tux T-shirt.

I try to keep my smacktalk online, rather than inflicting it upon potential new players at gaming tables.

I mean, the Crane suck and hate them, but that's no reason to actively belittle someone who just picked a Clan they thought looked cool and want to play with.

With that said, if it's a fellow veteran of L5R's lore, the gloves are off.

Just now, Shiba Gunichi said:

I try to keep my smacktalk online, rather than inflicting it upon potential new players at gaming tables.

I mean, the Crane suck and hate them, but that's no reason to actively belittle someone who just picked a Clan they thought looked cool and want to play with.

With that said, if it's a fellow veteran of L5R's lore, the gloves are off.

Aren't Phoenix just Crane with extra Maho? Do you just hate yourself?

Just now, Mirith said:

Aren't Phoenix just Crane with extra Maho? Do you just hate yourself?

Phoenix are Crane with actual class. Easy mistake to make. I forgive you.

Just now, Shiba Gunichi said:

Phoenix are Crane with actual class. Easy mistake to make. I forgive you.

Does that class come covered in blood of innocents?

17 minutes ago, TheItsyBitsySpider said:

I never miss a chance to remind the Crab that the only difference between Kisada and Kanpeki was that Kanpeki actually pulled it off

Um - I think we would like to point out that it took an actual (big K) Kami to take down the glorious Great Bear. Otherwise Crab would clearly be ruling the empire and the strongest and most deserving Clan.

4 minutes ago, Mirith said:

I suppose long skirts are acceptable. And please, Tux T-shirt.

I have some exceptionally comft pj's, great for long games and rpg sessions. How about those?

Just now, Mirith said:

Does that class come covered in blood of innocents?

You appear to have us confused with the Asahina. Easy mistake to make. We forgive you.

1 minute ago, Shiba Gunichi said:

You appear to have us confused with the Asahina. Easy mistake to make. We forgive you.

Yeah, but with Crane it's a few outliers, not like say, The entire Council becoming tainted

Just now, Kuni Katsuyoshi said:

Yeah, but with Crane it's a few outliers, not like say, The entire Council becoming tainted

A few outliers with centuries of staying power? Sounds to me like they're the actual specialists...

2 minutes ago, Shiba Gunichi said:

A few outliers with centuries of staying power? Sounds to me like they're the actual specialists...

I certainly agree Yajinden had better fashion sense than any Phoenix.

His kimono covered with cranes disemboweling each other with their beaks sounded cool. I want a shirt like that.

Smacktalk aside... Yajinden was one of the best Shadowlands-affiliated villains we ever got.

1 minute ago, Shiba Gunichi said:

Smacktalk aside... Yajinden was one of the best Shadowlands-affiliated villains we ever got.

Which was that Phoenix from later stories Kinuye or somthing?

Asako "Bloodspeaker Botanist" Kinuye, yes.

Apparently she has some fans. Can't fathom why.