19 hours ago, Shiba Gunichi said:

*patronizing pat on the head*

There, there. Someday you might be allowed to die and reincarnate into a clan that actually contributes value into the wider world. You'll be fine.

Condescension and class aren't quite the same thing, though the Phoenix certainly possess at least one of these.

I wouldn't expect a Unicorn to recognize class if it rode up and offered them a bloody chunk of red meat!

40 minutes ago, Shiba Gunichi said:

I wouldn't expect a Unicorn to recognize class if it rode up and offered them a bloody chunk of red meat!

At least the Unicorn know what swords are for.

The Phoenix seem....'confused' on this Issue

"Enemies you threaten make armies

Enemies you destroy make graves"

. -Little Truths-

1 hour ago, Kuni Katsuyoshi said:

At least the Unicorn know what swords are for.

Yes, because the Crab are sooooo big on swords. So big on them that they bring tetsubos to Iaijutsu duels...

31 minutes ago, Shiba Gunichi said:

Yes, because the Crab are sooooo big on swords. So big on them that they bring tetsubos to Iaijutsu duels...

Unorthodox yes, but apparently effective.

"*THWACK*!!!

..................."

-Mirumoto Satsu-

7 hours ago, Shiba Gunichi said:

Yes, because the Crab are sooooo big on swords. So big on them that they bring tetsubos to Iaijutsu duels...

Kakita said "One breath, one sword, one strike."

Mirumoto replied "Two hands." Mirumoto was a pragmatic fighter, believing you should use all resources at your disposal.

Yakamo silently swung his tetsubo... I'd think Mirumoto Hitomi would appreciate his response to this age old philosophical debate...

7 hours ago, Shiba Gunichi said:

Yes, because the Crab are sooooo big on swords. So big on them that they bring tetsubos to Iaijutsu duels...

One time. Against a guy who had just been told he has to throw the duel. Otherwise it's just Crab hitting each other with beat sticks on the clean(er) side of The Wall to resolve arguments.

9 hours ago, Shiba Gunichi said:

Yes, because the Crab are sooooo big on swords. So big on them that they bring tetsubos to Iaijutsu duels...

Well if crabs can negate all those years of training be be a duelist just by using a spiked club then it seems obvious who is doing the more effective training.

6 minutes ago, Cold Iron1 said:

Well if crabs can negate all those years of training be be a duelist just by using a spiked club then it seems obvious who is doing the more effective training.

Crabs can only win duels when their opponent's Champion tells them to take a fall.

On 7/6/2017 at 4:19 PM, Shiba Gunichi said:

A few outliers with centuries of staying power? Sounds to me like they're the actual specialists...

I admit I'm late to the party, but, uh...
Akuma.

Quote

The Mantis...

Who?

On 7/6/2017 at 3:52 PM, TheItsyBitsySpider said:

I never miss an opportunity to remind the lesser clans that the Spider won the CCG, Hantei Kanpeki rules Rokugan, Seiken broke the deal and caused it, Daigotsu got exactly what he wanted in the end, as fitting for the main protagonist, and there is nothing that will ever change that because of the time retcon.

I harvest that salt like a mine, such a rich vein of disgruntled fans.

I mean, obviously the Spider go out of the old story on top. When Marty Stu starts his MMA career, I know who I'm betting on.

But, about that lil word I bolded up in your quote. You sure about that? I'm pretty sure the only way you were able to "win" was having the game cancelled and the trophy handed to you for no reason. Good thing that's how it went down, eh?

12 hours ago, Shiba Gunichi said:

Yes, because the Crab are sooooo big on swords. So big on them that they bring tetsubos to Iaijutsu duels...

A broiled chicken talking about dueling is like a bat boy talking about hitting a home run.

3 hours ago, Bayushi Tsubaki said:

I admit I'm late to the party, but, uh...
Akuma.

As a general rule, when a samurai comes of age and takes the name "Devil," they're probably worth keeping an eye on, at least.

6 hours ago, Tonbo Karasu said:

Crabs can only win duels when their opponent's Champion tells them to take a fall.

That was added later.

I prefer the 'Satsu just sucked' explanation myself.

1 hour ago, Kuni Katsuyoshi said:

That was added later.

I prefer the 'Satsu just sucked' explanation myself.

Lolwut? Didn't this happen pre-game story? Nothing was changed later iirc

Satsu was a prodigy who woulda riggedy-wrecked Yakamo if he was allowed to go full-on. #LetsFite

9 minutes ago, Bayushi Tsubaki said:

Lolwut? Didn't this happen pre-game story? Nothing was changed later iirc

Satsu was a prodigy who woulda riggedy-wrecked Yakamo if he was allowed to go full-on. #LetsFite

The 'sacrifice' bit, I never heard a word about until the Dragon novel.

Yakamo was the son of the greatest living bushi of the period. I doubt it would have been as one-sided as you suggest.

1 minute ago, Kuni Katsuyoshi said:

the greatest living bushi of the period

There are quite a few others who would dispute that title, methinks.

Just now, Bayushi Tsubaki said:

There are quite a few others who would dispute that title, methinks.

Discounting Togashi himself, name someone.

Toshimoko in an Iai duel MAYBE, everyone else is blood on the floor.

Fiction has never differentiated Iai and Ken being significantly separate (that's always been a CCG/RPG mechanics consideration), so Toshimoko was one of the strongest swordsman, period, the Empire has ever known.
He totally still counts.

We'll start with the Bushi Thunders (Toturi, Hoturi, Hitomi, and Kamoko)
Shoju was regarded as one of the best swordsmen of his time even with the arm troubles, so he'd be a contender.
Dairya was Toshimoko's greatest rival, so he'd be a real contender.
Maybe Daidoji Uji (normal Uji prob not though, alternate Uji totally )
Matsu Tsuko
Moto Tsume (he's a bushi, right? lol)
Ujimitsu (if the hype is real - if not, he's squashed, lol)
Shinjo Yokatsu (he didn't *do* much of anything, but he was no push-over)
Yoritomo (ugh, hard to swallow but I gotta be fair and include him, lol)

I think that's a pretty good list of people who would give Kisada a real run for his money, and possibly win.
Can't dispute that Kisada was absolutely the "toughest" living bushi of the period, but "greatest" is a whole 'nother ball game.

3 minutes ago, Bayushi Tsubaki said:

Fiction has never differentiated Iai and Ken being significantly separate, so Toshimoko was one of the strongest swordsman, period, the Empire has ever known.
He totally still counts.

We'll start with the Bushi Thunders (Toturi, Hoturi, Hitomi, and Kamoko)
Shoju was regarded as one of the best swordsmen of his time even with the arm troubles, so he'd be a contender.
Dairya was Toshimoko's greatest rival, so he'd be a real contender.
Maybe Daidoji Uji (normal Uji prob not though, alternate Uji totally )
Matsu Tsuko
Moto Tsume (he's a bushi, right? lol)
Ujimitsu (if the hype is real - if not, he's squashed, lol)
Shinjo Yokatsu (he didn't *do* much of anything, but he was no push-over)
Yoritomo (ugh, hard to swallow but I gotta be fair and include him, lol)

I think that's a pretty good list of people who would give Kisada a real run for his money, and possibly win.
Can't dispute that Kisada was absolutely the "toughest" living bushi of the period, but "greatest" is a whole 'nother ball game.

"The Lion champion Akodo Toturi may be his match strategically, but none can compare with the sheer combat prowess of the Great Bear."

Way of the Crab p.61

There you go, in black and white

All those named above are good, but they're still just meat waiting to be tenderized.

Pffffft

Everyone knows the "Way of..." clanbooks were propaganda written from an in-clan standpoint. You can't take the hype from them seriously.

30 minutes ago, Bayushi Tsubaki said:

Fiction has never differentiated Iai and Ken being significantly separate (that's always been a CCG/RPG mechanics consideration), so Toshimoko was one of the strongest swordsman, period, the Empire has ever known.
He totally still counts.

We'll start with the Bushi Thunders (Toturi, Hoturi, Hitomi, and Kamoko)
Shoju was regarded as one of the best swordsmen of his time even with the arm troubles, so he'd be a contender.
Dairya was Toshimoko's greatest rival, so he'd be a real contender.
Maybe Daidoji Uji (normal Uji prob not though, alternate Uji totally )
Matsu Tsuko
Moto Tsume (he's a bushi, right? lol)
Ujimitsu (if the hype is real - if not, he's squashed, lol)
Shinjo Yokatsu (he didn't *do* much of anything, but he was no push-over)
Yoritomo (ugh, hard to swallow but I gotta be fair and include him, lol)

I think that's a pretty good list of people who would give Kisada a real run for his money, and possibly win.
Can't dispute that Kisada was absolutely the "toughest" living bushi of the period, but "greatest" is a whole 'nother ball game.

Toshimoko would certainly be the best "swordsman" in Rokugan. The difference between ken and iai in fiction is typically the rule set. 1 sword, no armor. Toshimoko would smoke anyone with these rules.

Breaking from those rules Hitomi would be the best 1v1. She would still fit in the duelist format of no armor, but would veer away from 1 sword with her niten style.

Toturi was great in the balance of military and politics, but it wasn't his fighting power that gave him the edge. Shoju is in this same spot. It isn't their personal fighting ability that made them great.

If you consider 1v1 combat without any rules, ie armor and any weapon, then I would say Kisada would reign supreme here, with Yoritomo a close second. This is the lesson Yakamo taught Satsu... Once you put aside your "rules of civil combat" and understand it is a fight to the death, its much easier to land a killing blow.

AS for this "was told to lose"... I'm pretty sure that was retcon. The Dragon are great at it because you can always re-write a story to say they knew what was going to happen.

1 minute ago, Bayushi Tsubaki said:

Pffffft

Everyone knows the "Way of..." clanbooks were propaganda written from an in-clan standpoint. You can't take the hype from them seriously.

"hype"? Uh huh sure

Earth of 9, Strength of 6, BELIEVE the hype 'O masked one'.

1 minute ago, shosuko said:

AS for this "was told to lose"... I'm pretty sure that was retcon.

What's your source though?