<reads the smacktalk offered in thread> I don't think the ratio of smacktalk is evenly distributed across all the clans here....That might be a part of my difficult impression with it growing.

Shosuko had a good quote: "I would have no problems with people talking about Scorpion being liars and cheaters, but if someone genuinely thought I was cheating I would be taken back... "

That is a good point. I've played long enough that that has been a really annoying thing to deal with. But I confess there is another thing that makes smack talking really harsh for me that I'm wondering if it comes up in your stores.

Smack talk about 'The Crab needing a bath'...if I ask a Crab player about that, they won't say they mind it...the lack of caring about what the rest of Rokugan thinks of them is something that the players generally find appealing. Same for smack talk about Scorpion and being sneaky.

But what if the smack talk is, say, about the Lion being cowardly? Or Tainty. The player doing that smack talk might have a reason for it (the Lion never attack alone, for example, or because of Kitsu Osen), but the Lion player doesn't feel like that is an appealing feature of their clan, so it would grate if /everyone/ started saying that smack talk. It impinges and condemns the image of their clan. Or calling Scorpion incompetent for their many failures. Does that happen for players of other clans? Does it bother them?

As the smack talk starts ramping up, I am starting to cringe again at all the anti-Crane smacktalk. I hope it's only online, but it brings back pretty rotten memories I'd rather stay dead.

1 minute ago, Shiba Gunichi said:

Asako "Bloodspeaker Botanist" Kinuye, yes.

Apparently she has some fans. Can't fathom why.

I recall a fiction she was in I like

I think it was when she was outed by Bairei or something.

I binge read so my recall gets jumbled.

I think part of Yajinden's succes as a character was that he was more focused in his Evil.

less RAAAAGGGHH SMASH EMPIRE!!!

2 minutes ago, KakitaKaori said:

<reads the smacktalk offered in thread> I don't think the ratio of smacktalk is evenly distributed across all the clans here....That might be a part of my difficult impression with it growing.

Shosuko had a good quote: "I would have no problems with people talking about Scorpion being liars and cheaters, but if someone genuinely thought I was cheating I would be taken back... "

That is a good point. I've played long enough that that has been a really annoying thing to deal with. But I confess there is another thing that makes smack talking really harsh for me that I'm wondering if it comes up in your stores.

Smack talk about 'The Crab needing a bath'...if I ask a Crab player about that, they won't say they mind it...the lack of caring about what the rest of Rokugan thinks of them is something that the players generally find appealing. Same for smack talk about Scorpion and being sneaky.

But what if the smack talk is, say, about the Lion being cowardly? Or Tainty. The player doing that smack talk might have a reason for it (the Lion never attack alone, for example, or because of Kitsu Osen), but the Lion player doesn't feel like that is an appealing feature of their clan, so it would grate if /everyone/ started saying that smack talk. It impinges and condemns the image of their clan. Or calling Scorpion incompetent for their many failures. Does that happen for players of other clans? Does it bother them?

As the smack talk starts ramping up, I am starting to cringe again at all the anti-Crane smacktalk. I hope it's only online, but it brings back pretty rotten memories I'd rather stay dead.

The Crane will get their shots in. They usually do.

4 minutes ago, KakitaKaori said:

As the smack talk starts ramping up, I am starting to cringe again at all the anti-Crane smacktalk. I hope it's only online, but it brings back pretty rotten memories I'd rather stay dead.

I think part of that is that the Crane are kind of the low hanging fruit of the setting in my opinion. It's easy for everyone to bash on the clan of perfection and beauty, kind of like bashing on celebrities - especially for us thick skulled berserker types. Harder for us to actually beat a Crane in anything besides arm wrestling.

And besides, the Crane are vermin to be expunged by fire!

I mean, we all had our smacktalk. But going to actually accuse someone of being a cheater because their clan? That's insane to me.

Speaking of low hanging fruit;

Instead of bringing the Mantis back as 'pirate' samurai, they should do something original.

Bring back the Mantis as 'clown' samurai.

Big floppy shoes and katana........brilliance!

As if the Mantis were ever capable of being the "samurai" half of the "pirate samurai" tag...

Crane and phoenix are my go tos for **** talking

5 minutes ago, SHARKOSAURUS said:

I mean, we all had our smacktalk. But going to actually accuse someone of being a cheater because their clan? That's insane to me.

Agreed

Smacktalk about something that doesn't actually exist is one thing,

But making it personal...not cool

4 minutes ago, Kuni Katsuyoshi said:

Speaking of low hanging fruit;

Instead of bringing the Mantis back as 'pirate' samurai, they should do something original.

Bring back the Mantis as 'clown' samurai.

Big floppy shoes and katana........brilliance!

How would that be any different? The Mantis were already a bunch of clowns.

3 minutes ago, Shiba Gunichi said:

As if the Mantis were ever capable of being the "samurai" half of the "pirate samurai" tag...

They had cool boats.

Too bad everything happens on dry land.

1 minute ago, Ishi Tonu said:

How would that be any different? The Mantis were already a bunch of clowns.

Well if Naizen had worn floppy shoes and a squeaky nose, I wouldn't have disliked him so much.

12 minutes ago, Kuni Katsuyoshi said:

Speaking of low hanging fruit;

Instead of bringing the Mantis back as 'pirate' samurai, they should do something original.

Bring back the Mantis as 'clown' samurai.

Big floppy shoes and katana........brilliance!

I would say they could try being clown pirates, but that shtick was already played out with Buggy the Clown on One Piece. Then again, he could make for valuable inspiration...

1 minute ago, Zesu Shadaban said:

I would say they could try being clown pirates, but that shtick was already played out with Buggy the Clown on One Piece. Then again, he could make for valuable inspiration...

I'd like to see a Mantis Pirate Clown Samurai Suicide Squad a la Life of Brian.

Just picturing it makes me smile

When I was a teenager I remember the smack talk about crane, especially to new players choosing their clan, was specifically homophobic enough that young boys weren't going to take the faction they were being told was gay.

After playing more I played it a lot, because I'm a control player and they did control solitaire better than any other clan, but I had lots of opponents roll their eyes and refer to my faction as "fairies".

When the crowd got smaller and less people were playing this stopped happening, but looking back I'm surprised I stuck it out just because I enjoyed a playstyle.

6 minutes ago, profparm said:

When I was a teenager I remember the smack talk about crane, especially to new players choosing their clan, was specifically homophobic enough that young boys weren't going to take the faction they were being told was gay.

After playing more I played it a lot, because I'm a control player and they did control solitaire better than any other clan, but I had lots of opponents roll their eyes and refer to my faction as "fairies".

When the crowd got smaller and less people were playing this stopped happening, but looking back I'm surprised I stuck it out just because I enjoyed a playstyle.

Ugh.

Once again I'm glad I have no skill at strategy games.

I'm also glad your still with us!!

To this day, two of my buddies (one playing Crab the other Crane) will not stop trashing each other's clan. Of course, in true Crane fashion he usually acts like the Crab's complaints are beneath him.

19 minutes ago, profparm said:

When I was a teenager I remember the smack talk about crane, especially to new players choosing their clan, was specifically homophobic enough that young boys weren't going to take the faction they were being told was gay.

Yes. This was my experience also. To an extent that went on. And on. And on. For years. In every single online multi-clan conversation about L5R. During play for about a quarter of the games I played too. I wasn't even playing control. People thought they were being original...but every Crane player had heard it so many times that it wasn't funny or smack talk any more. That, and smack talk about being cowardly and 'not in the face' or being girly...(with whatever that is supposed to imply about my gender too...

Whereas I was thinking it's pretty cool and brave to be an unarmored poet facing down alone a hardened warrior in heavy armor with nothing but 3 feet of steel and your skill to defend the home you love...

41 minutes ago, BayushiCroy said:

Crane and phoenix are my go tos for **** talking

Yeah - when I run the RPG, since I'm a Scorpion player, the villains are all Phoenix if its magical, and Crane if its political. I love spinning tales of Crane political corruption and Phoenix cults that steal away power from the Kami, and use blood magic. If I actually used a Scorpion villain it would be massively out of character for me haha.

My villains tend to be Lion (which is funny, since I don't generally smack-talk them), Crane, Dragon (funny because I actually really like them), or Imperials...

Haha... when opening this thread, I was half expecting/hoping it to to be a spoiled crab conflict card!

My group was pretty laid back and I can't remember smack talk ever going overboard.

24 minutes ago, shosuko said:

Yeah - when I run the RPG, since I'm a Scorpion player, the villains are all Phoenix if its magical, and Crane if its political. I love spinning tales of Crane political corruption and Phoenix cults that steal away power from the Kami, and use blood magic. If I actually used a Scorpion villain it would be massively out of character for me haha.

And yet, Scorpion are the ones that are actually OK with corruption, and pride themselves on doing corrupt things (for the greater good of course), whereas the Crane believe that it is better to kill yourself than do anything dishonorable, and the Phoenix believe in pacifism and study. You may try surprising your players sometime with Clans actually trying to live up to be what they (and their players) actually are with the same latitude you give Scorpion.

Do you also make stories about Crab running away and hiding from the Shadowlands? What about Greedy Lions? A cruel Unicorn Lord who oppresses his people? Or is only Crane and Phoenix that get to be treated like that?

Sorry...different topic. And more peevish than I intended. Of course you can make your villains anything you like. It's just something that seems to happen with Crane/Phoenix that doesn't happen with other clans.

42 minutes ago, profparm said:

When I was a teenager I remember the smack talk about crane, especially to new players choosing their clan, was specifically homophobic enough that young boys weren't going to take the faction they were being told was gay.

After playing more I played it a lot, because I'm a control player and they did control solitaire better than any other clan, but I had lots of opponents roll their eyes and refer to my faction as "fairies".

When the crowd got smaller and less people were playing this stopped happening, but looking back I'm surprised I stuck it out just because I enjoyed a playstyle.

Im always surprised by this. I suppose mostly because I feel like I always knew someone cam be pretty and not gay

8 minutes ago, BayushiCroy said:

Im always surprised by this. I suppose mostly because I feel like I always knew someone cam be pretty and not gay

I have a feeling it wasn't just the fact that they were pretty, but also traditionally how you could avoid combats or decide the outcome with a few choice duels and never attack. These players didn't like that the clan didn't play the game their way (honor running, and not attacking, was seen as cowardly or not masculine enough).

But that's how a lot of things were treated if you were a young teenager in the Midwest in those days. I don't know how anyone who was actually homosexual would have put up with any aspect of the nerd community I saw in those days. (Seems much more accepting now and for at least a decade, thankfully.)