So, I was having an into game with a friend who's just getting into the game and doesn't have any cards yet. I modified a copy of each starter deck with some better cards (a few in each) and gave him the Kylo deck (which I also gave a 2nd FO Stormtrooper to balance the points.) I took elite Rey and Finn.

Rey and Kylo died first and then Finn just couldn't do enough damage to the two Stormtroopers to win. It was a decent game, but after I lost Rey it just seemed that I didn't have enough leverage to do anything much.

I also never see him in decks, while Rey pops up paired with Qui-Gon or Obi-Wan. Is Finn no good? I love the character and want to make him work, but he seems a little pricey for what he brings to the table.

Yes, he is over costed for his die and ability. It seems very unlikely that the current version of Finn will see play in any remotely competitive deck. The best bet for him to see more play is for another version of him to come out, perhaps in a set coinciding with the release of episode 8, The Last Jedi.

Finn continues to become more useful as more red villain stuff gets added, but he is horribly overpriced for his dice .

My other thought about Finn is that his dice are actually too powerful. Why? Because the damage output of his dice makes him too expensive of a character (he fills a pricier character archetype) to fit in a deck where he belongs, as a supporting character. For example, if his dice was just a little weaker and his cost was 10/13 or something like that, he would show up all the time in decks that would like to use red villain cards, but as it is, he's going to fill a really expensive role in your deck with no added value other than deckbuilding.

Also, his dice are mixed damage. SoR Vader and Jango do ok because of their awesome abilities, but for the most part, mixed damage characters do poorly. Chewbacca and Chirrut Imwe are good examples of this in action. Yellow villain as an entire faction is another (they don't have enough ranged upgrades).

Finn is like IG-88 in my opinion. He has a cool gimmick that will continue to get more powerful as more cards are added to the game, but he is really expensive and doesn't have great dice, which will continue to limit his efficacy.

The trouble with Finn is that he's costed against an ability that, barring an unforseen broken combination, will get weaker with each set - access to additional weapons and vehicles feels like it'll be less useful as the hero choice improves.

Still, fun to throw an ATST at an opponent with Poes ability in casual play...

I had a Poe/Finn Vehicles deck with Awakenings, but with SoR and SO many more fun things for vehicles (and EaW looks to boost that even more!) It was tough even having space for the AT-STs and Blaster Rifles. At which point you kinda go: "Why am I not running Maz?"

Ya, Finn is in a sad place right now.

Yeah, his ability makes sense theme wise. It also makes sense to charge a premium to be allowed to break the core rules of the game. There just doesn't seem to be a lot to do with those extras. Glad it wasn't just me, although I did have some bad rolls.

At least a prospective new player had a good time and got a win in!

Remember when everyone said this about Poe? (over cost for ability) Then, Spirit of Rebellion came out.

Empire at War (from the spoiler videos I've watched) is shaping up to do the same for Finn.

1 hour ago, Stone37 said:

Remember when everyone said this about Poe? (over cost for ability) Then, Spirit of Rebellion came out.

Empire at War (from the spoiler videos I've watched) is shaping up to do the same for Finn.

When Awakenings released, everybody wanted to try Bro Dameron (Finn/Poe). That AT-ST looked too sweet to pass up. But the costs worked out such that you had to run eFinn/rPoe, when rFinn/ePoe would work much better. ePoe/eRey was actually very good at the time, but players didn't try it out until later in the Awakenings-only timeframe. In other words, players figured out that something was overcosted in Bro Dameron, and some players were incorrect about which one it was.

I believe Poe and Finn are on completely different tracks. Every good Hero/Neutral vehicle that releases is a new arrow in Poe's quiver, and a new reason not to borrow from the villains. Finn might keep getting new options, he'll also keep getting reasons you won't need those options. And if the cards he can get are so good that you really want to run Finn over somebody with better dice and text, then we're probably at a point where you should just run Villain Red.

I would love to be wrong on this point. Only time will tell.

Finn is so overcosted its just sad, he really is about the only character from awakenings that wasn’t in a semi-competitive deck.

If you compare him to FN-2199 the cost gap is even more apparent.

The both have almost exactly the same dice, except 9's 2 damage side costs a resource. Not sure how much the that would be valued at points wise but assume its 1 point.

Now consider that 9's has 1 more health, easily taking back that point, and that his ability is far more powerful than Finn's it would easily be worth at least another point.

Now in actuality 9's is 3 points cheaper for both elite and regular versions but realistically should cost more than Finn. This tells me that Finn should have costed closer to 10-13 because TBH 9's actually feels a little under costed as well for his ability.

Finn is easily 3+ points overcosted an no amount of great red weapons or vehicles is going to make him playable, because if there were such an amazing glut of red villain weapons and vehicles available, you would just play a 9's villain deck instead.

If Finn was 11 health, I could at least see him being sort of viable for a blowout deck, using his ability to get the max amount of red dice for It's a Trap and running Never Tell Me the Odds. But at 10 health he's fragile as well as expensive, and that just doesn't work for me.

51 minutes ago, Mace Windu said:

if there were such an amazing glut of red villain weapons and vehicles available, you would just play a 9's villain deck instead.

This is my huge beef. He should have been costed at nothing more than his health, dice, and his ability to equip any weapons. His deck ability is only useful when overall game balance is leaning heavily towards villain red which is both not likely and not desired.

I think Finn is the worst character in the game. Grievous and Luminara are knocking at his door, but Finn takes the cake.

He can never be worth his cost unless the designers go out of their way to TRY and fix him by sneaking in a backdoor combo that only works with a red villain weapon or vehicle and a hero only card.

15 minutes ago, CBMarkham said:

He can never be worth his cost unless the designers go out of their way to TRY and fix him by sneaking in a backdoor combo that only works with a red villain weapon or vehicle and a hero only card.

If only Finn and K2-SO could get together with more than a single die each. Riot Baton on K2 would be bonkers.

It is really is sad. Even FFG admits that they got Finn wrong. He needs a re-do. He is such an important character in the new movies.

9 hours ago, CBMarkham said:

I think Finn is the worst character in the game. Grievous and Luminara are knocking at his door, but Finn takes the cake.

He can never be worth his cost unless the designers go out of their way to TRY and fix him by sneaking in a backdoor combo that only works with a red villain weapon or vehicle and a hero only card.

That.
He needs just that 1 villain card to shine. And considering that in the interview they said that EaW will focus heavily on supports (vehicles)...maybe just maybe he is gonna be the sleeper of this set Other than that he is solid...for 12/14 pts character. For sure not worth 13/16 as he does not bring anything to the table to justify spending 16 points on him for now :/

8 hours ago, DJRAZZ said:

It is really is sad. Even FFG admits that they got Finn wrong. He needs a re-do. He is such an important character in the new movies.

Do you have a source for FFG admitting they "got Finn wrong"?

Great thing about a CCG... they can create a new, alternate version, Finn! (Just like they have already done with Darth Vader.)

I'm with you in believing that FGG should have Finn on the fast track for being issued a new character card. (And its elite cost should be 12! We need our Poemance dangitt!!)

10 minutes ago, Stone37 said:

Do you have a source for FFG admitting they "got Finn wrong"?

Lukas has said in multiple interviews that they costed him wrong.

1 hour ago, CBowser said:

Lukas has said in multiple interviews that they costed him wrong.

Link? Source? I'd love to hear that in context from Lukas. (Not that I don't believe you, I'd just like to hear his thoughts.)

1 hour ago, Stone37 said:

Link? Source? I'd love to hear that in context from Lukas. (Not that I don't believe you, I'd just like to hear his thoughts.)

I heard Lukas talking about this also. He's on one of the podcasts that they're doing live during Worlds, and he's discussing how they costed Finn with a "whoops tax", essentially. It's in case Finn accidentally finds a combo that they didn't see coming, which is like...the laziest excuse for intentionally over costing something that I've ever heard, but that's what he said.

Look for like....Team Covenant, or Chance Cube, or Knights of Ren episodes right around Worlds. On one of them it will prominently say that they have Lukas in house for an interview, and during that episode, at Worlds, he touches on the subject. Hope that helps.

So like, according the basic formula that mostly held true in set 1, his real cost should have been like 11/14. Although if he had cost that much, he'd be like my favorite hero character, just because heroes really lack a cheap/efficient damage character to pair with 2 of their AMAZING generics. Have I mentioned that I feel like ORS and Rebel Trooper are fantastic for their costs, and only suffer because there's no 14 point body to put into the gap except Rey and her wierd, broken melee dice and support characters like Maz/Mon/Ackbar? If Finn were appropriately costed at 11/14, he'd be an all-star just because he'd be the only ranged offense option in that bracket.

C'est la vie.

18 minutes ago, CBMarkham said:

So like, according the basic formula that mostly held true in set 1, his real cost should have been like 11/14.

C'est la vie.

I think I'm going to house rule him 12/16. The Poemance is always welcome on my table! (that sounds a little weird.... )

Finn could easily be great again at 12/15 with 1 more hp as well. And rebalance Chirruit to 12/15. That elite combo would actually be really fun to play as either melee, ranged, or some whacky mix dmg!

~D

On 7/6/2017 at 4:06 PM, Stone37 said:

Remember when everyone said this about Poe? (over cost for ability) Then, Spirit of Rebellion came out.

Empire at War (from the spoiler videos I've watched) is shaping up to do the same for Finn.

Everyone never said that. Poe/Rey was one of the stronger decks in the Awakenings only format.

What that has been previewed makes you excited for Finns prospects?

4 minutes ago, ScottieATF said:

Everyone never said that. Poe/Rey was one of the stronger decks in the Awakenings only format.

What that has been previewed makes you excited for Finns prospects?

Be prepared for the inevitable person to go back and post the many, many links that stated how much Poe sucks for the cost when Destiny first came out....

As for your second questions... some of the cards spoiled thus far lead me to believe vehicles will be a big part of EaW. Pinned Down being one of them. With the current card set, Pinned Down really should be a 0 cost card, but FFG has given it a cost of 1. I think the weakest part of this game right now is Support, but especially vehicle, cards. Pinned Down has me hoping set number 3 is looking to fix this.

1 hour ago, Stone37 said:

Be prepared for the inevitable person to go back and post the many, many links that stated how much Poe sucks for the cost when Destiny first came out....

As for your second questions... some of the cards spoiled thus far lead me to believe vehicles will be a big part of EaW. Pinned Down being one of them. With the current card set, Pinned Down really should be a 0 cost card, but FFG has given it a cost of 1. I think the weakest part of this game right now is Support, but especially vehicle, cards. Pinned Down has me hoping set number 3 is looking to fix this.

So you think there is an equivalent comparison between people's views about a character prior to its release (that was proven wrong within the first set itself) and people's views about a character two sets into its existence which have been completely validated? Come on.

So even if Pinned Down and vehicles are great that doesn't make Finn good. For Finn to get better there needs to be a red villain vehicle that is somehow better in hero then it is in villain. Because you're taking a character that has the damage sides of one 3-4 points less to take said vehicle. Maybe if he could take red villain events he'd have some life.