Why didn't we get a anti-squadron modification in the Wave 6?

We all know that for now, the meta is with strong squadron fleet and there is no place for a heavy ship list (unless some crazy guess).

My opinion is mostly because FFG think that maybe 3 AA dices is too powefull (the power to get rid of certain low hull squadrons). Think about a Neb-B equip with 3 AA blue dices or a Raider with 2 blue and 1 black, just wonderfull for the price!!!

Yes, we have the introduction of the red dice for AA on the Quasar Fire. Is that enough? And for now, it's only on the Imps side?

Are we at that point that we really need it (a new AA modification card) or do you think that the game will balance by itself by addition of new ship in the futur?

Rebel anti squadron are it's squadrons. We don't need squadrons to disappear. The upgrade was suspected to be anti-squad, but I have seen it in action and it does PLENTY to help heavy ship lists (mainly with large bases) play strongly. Wait and see how it shakes out before we start the cycle of tears!

Without getting into the thick on why/should, there's always a bit of lag in development. For the longest time (release, Wave 1 +2) Squads were left behind. Then they started ramping up the power with every wave. The problem is the development time and release schedule means they probably put in a lot of work into the models before the meta completely shakes out. So that's why it may seem they spend all this time trying to fix something that may be an out of date issue on release or not addressing something that seems ripe for it. With the advent of some major fighter dominance at World's, you already seen them address some things with the FAQ. Maybe when they actually have a fresh wave starting development you may see some more AAA specific cards.

OR

Maybe they think that extra awesome red die AAA on the Quasar may be enough...

36 minutes ago, BrobaFett said:

Rebel anti squadron are it's squadrons. We don't need squadrons to disappear. The upgrade was suspected to be anti-squad, but I have seen it in action and it does PLENTY to help heavy ship lists (mainly with large bases) play strongly. Wait and see how it shakes out before we start the cycle of tears!

This. This is the card that will make the Imperial-1 dreadnought list positively sing.

Rieekan aces was just nerfed pretty hard (MSU Rieekan not so much but still some, which is fine) and Bomber Command Centers no longer stacking also threw some hurdles in the way of squad-heavy fleets.

The Imperial Quasar offers Imperials a solid Flight Controllers platform for some TIE anti-squadron hate as well as the red flak die on the Quasar-II.

Maybe we should just calm down and see what happens before we cry about upgrade cards we were never promised?

Don't get me wrong here, I do like squadron a lot .

I have 2 set of every squadron pack release yet for both side. Each squadron is paint differently to give some personality and ease to point at a target.

But... I do love big ship too.

I repeat, I don't want to vanish squadron, just get a solution for every kind of fleet composition because for now, Cluster Bomb and Quad Laser Turret are not enough... even with a ligth CAP against a strong squadron fleet.

So the question here is : Is adding a blue die by a modification card too strong? Could it be a better solution for a black die? Is a die too strong at all?

Just now, DOMSWAT911 said:

So the question here is : Is adding a blue die by a modification card too strong? Could it be a better solution for a black die? Is a die too strong at all?

Adding AS dice at all is too strong. IMO of course.

I'm thinking the Quasar will add a sufficient buff to imperial AA. (I never really felt rebels needed AA buffs, most of their squadrons can mutlitask). It's nice having a relatively cheap ship that lets me activate the whole"wambo-jambo" (Ciena,soontir,dengar,howlrunner, 2x tie/Int). Makes short work of squads and can can stack 3-4 damage on a ship pretty easy too.

The hate I have for the tediousness of squadron play is still there, but at least IMPs can do some semi-fun stuff with this new ship.

The BCC not stacking was such a blow to squadron-heavy play, I can easily see FFG wanting to take a 'wait and see' attitude on how things develop from there. (Not to mention doubling up on that with Rieekan's only-once-a-turn hurting Rebel squadrons almost as badly as Rhymer's nerf socked Imperial squadrons)

Those FAQ nerfs made a huge difference in squadron effectiveness against ships.

15 minutes ago, Snipafist said:

Rieekan aces was just nerfed pretty hard (MSU Rieekan not so much but still some, which is fine) and Bomber Command Centers no longer stacking also threw some hurdles in the way of squad-heavy fleets.

The Imperial Quasar offers Imperials a solid Flight Controllers platform for some TIE anti-squadron hate as well as the red flak die on the Quasar-II.

Maybe we should just calm down and see what happens before we cry about upgrade cards we were never promised?

Don't forget rhymer too

50 minutes ago, BrobaFett said:

Adding AS dice at all is too strong. IMO of course.

This.

He gets it.

Now, maybe we've had a hard time getting cards like Cluster Mines to work effectively, and maybe PDR has been both obsoleted and wasn't that great to begin with, but whatever we get going forward is likely going to be cheap with some other kind of limiting caveat (e.g. Kallus is both unique and only against aces). For example, rather than trying to balance a single blue die against ALL squads in range, a 2-4 point card that exhausts to add 2 dice to a single anti-squadron shot would seem to be more in line with how they've been doing things and which has a much stronger chance of achieving balance.

I haven't tried it yet, but I think the best AA out there on paper is:

- Quasar-II (1 Red AA)

- Kallus

- Ordinance Experts

- Ruthless Strategists

Make sure you have a couple tie bombers to throw into the RS grinder, and compliment with some fighter cover.

32 minutes ago, Warlord Zepnick said:

I haven't tried it yet, but I think the best AA out there on paper is:

- Quasar-II (1 Red AA)

- Kallus

- Ordinance Experts

- Ruthless Strategists

Make sure you have a couple tie bombers to throw into the RS grinder, and compliment with some fighter cover.

^^This exactly^^, except I am going with Kallas/Flight Controllers/Ruthless Strategists/Boosted Comms/Squall title.

4 - TIE defenders

Vader

3 - YV-666

Alpha strike with Vader and the defenders and follow up support with the speed 4, YV-666. Long range AA with RS will mop up anything remaining on 1 hull. The Quasar II will dominate the skies...

1 hour ago, BrobaFett said:

Adding AS dice at all is too strong. IMO of course.

36 minutes ago, Vergilius said:

This.

He gets it.

Now, maybe we've had a hard time getting cards like Cluster Mines to work effectively, and maybe PDR has been both obsoleted and wasn't that great to begin with, but whatever we get going forward is likely going to be cheap with some other kind of limiting caveat (e.g. Kallus is both unique and only against aces). For example, rather than trying to balance a single blue die against ALL squads in range, a 2-4 point card that exhausts to add 2 dice to a single anti-squadron shot would seem to be more in line with how they've been doing things and which has a much stronger chance of achieving balance.

To elaborate a little; the problem with a modification that simply added to your battery armament is that different squadrons are affected differently by flak- A 3 flak dice ship would completely cripple a Tie Swarm over two volleys, perhaps even killing some on the first shot. Heavier fighters* on the other hand would shrug off the first volley and probably still be kicking after the second one unless you've got a pretty strong fighter coverage to support your flak. So we'll probably never see a straight up "increase your anti-squadron armament" card, simply because it would be too disproportionately harsh on fragile fighters- Even one restricted to ships with only one anti-squadron die as a base might be too strong (or cost a ton of points) since those ships might end up with very good arcs for flakking.

A better solution is an exhaust to add dice upgrade for burst damage against key squadrons, or perhaps an Agent Kallus-like card that targets squadrons with at least 5 base hull instead of unique squadrons.

*And, frankly, these are the ones people are complaining about at the present.

44 minutes ago, Warlord Zepnick said:

I haven't tried it yet, but I think the best AA out there on paper is:

- Quasar-II (1 Red AA)

- Kallus

- Ordinance Experts

- Ruthless Strategists

Make sure you have a couple tie bombers to throw into the RS grinder, and compliment with some fighter cover.

OE is an awful choice for a Quasar. Flight Controllers is much better since you need squads to trigger RS. So give all 6 squads +1 blue.

1 hour ago, Warlord Zepnick said:

I haven't tried it yet, but I think the best AA out there on paper is:

- Quasar-II (1 Red AA)

- Kallus

- Ordinance Experts

- Ruthless Strategists

Make sure you have a couple tie bombers to throw into the RS grinder, and compliment with some fighter cover.

It's not. You park something right in front of it and he can't shoot AS anymore.

38 minutes ago, Undeadguy said:

OE is an awful choice for a Quasar. Flight Controllers is much better since you need squads to trigger RS. So give all 6 squads +1 blue.

Yeah you're right, rerollable black dice against unique squadrons at long range is awful.

1 minute ago, Warlord Zepnick said:

Yeah you're right, rerollable black dice against unique squadrons at long range is awful.

If you don't run into any unique squads then you have a wasted slot. And if you shoot a Scatter ace and don't pull an Acc on the red, then you wasted a slot. If the Quasar could take Flechette, then OE would be great, even against unique squads.

2 minutes ago, Undeadguy said:

If you don't run into any unique squads then you have a wasted slot. And if you shoot a Scatter ace and don't pull an Acc on the red, then you wasted a slot. If the Quasar could take Flechette, then OE would be great, even against unique squads.

I would expect less unique aces too with the reeikan nerf as well.

3 hours ago, BrobaFett said:

Adding AS dice at all is too strong. IMO of course.

There's a world of difference between DTTs, Slaved Turrets, and Spinals; there is a large possible design space for adding anti-squadron dice that aren't just that.

Kallus exists, after all.

Dont forget on the Quasar2 you can have ruthless strategist and flight controllers.

You will be flakking at long range with 1 damage guranteed, with a potential of doing 3.

Kallus is maybe fun for Aces but when your foe bring a majority of normal squadron, Kallus is not the answer for you.

Ok... A blue die could be too powerfull.

But what about a black dice? What could be the price for? Which slot should it take?

What do you think of 8 points in the Offensive Retrofit?

9 hours ago, xanderf said:

The BCC not stacking was such a blow to squadron-heavy play, I can easily see FFG wanting to take a 'wait and see' attitude on how things develop from there. (Not to mention doubling up on that with Rieekan's only-once-a-turn hurting Rebel squadrons almost as badly as Rhymer's nerf socked Imperial squadrons)

Those FAQ nerfs made a huge difference in squadron effectiveness against ships.

I'd say the Rieekan nerf was much harder than Rhymer. Rhymer's threat range was marginally reduced and the retaliation threat slightly increased vs ships, but Rieekan's change means that Rebel squadrons are now vastly easier to kill.

1 hour ago, thecactusman17 said:

I'd say the Rieekan nerf was much harder than Rhymer. Rhymer's threat range was marginally reduced and the retaliation threat slightly increased vs ships, but Rieekan's change means that Rebel squadrons are now vastly easier to kill.

Rieekan does not make (unique) squadrons or ships harder or easier to kill. A 4 health unique still needs to take four damage to be killed.

What he does is increase their threat, because now if you wipe the squadron out, they still have the chance to retaliate and/or have their ability used.

Not aimed at you cactus, just saw the way it was stated and i have wanted to get it off my chest for a while.

In relation to the topic: i think a anti squadron upgrade is needed, maybe not adding dice, possibly a upgrade like

(Name needed)

(10pts) when the ship this upgrade is equipped to is destroyed, roll 2 black dice against all squadrons at distance 1-2 of the ship

My thought being make something similar to cluster bombs, something slightly weaker but effects all squadrons in the range while relying on being destroyed to work.

But that doesnt really change the fact that its up to FFG to do whats best for the game

Technically, in a way, he is correct though.

- Make the assumption that the squadron Killed, and now protected by Rieekan, is an escort ...

Anyone around him would be invincible, as any firepower you have is wasted killing the dead guy...

With the Changes though, now you're going to have to decide wether that Ace gets protected, or wether you save Rieekan's effect for a Ship this turn.

That does directly impact the survivability of rebel squadrons.