So, let's say that Jake performs a focus action to get his boost. Can Jan have changed that focus into an evade? If she does, can Jake still boost?

Yes he does. He triggers off a focus action or being assigned a focus token.

Incidentally, on a 100% autistic rules-as-written reading of the ability, he should get a boost and a barrel roll from taking a focus action and thus assigning himself a focus token, but you won't find anyone who believes that's how it is supposed to work

4 hours ago, InquisitorM said:

Yes he does. He triggers off a focus action or being assigned a focus token.

Incidentally, on a 100% autistic rules-as-written reading of the ability, he should get a boost and a barrel roll from taking a focus action and thus assigning himself a focus token, but you won't find anyone who believes that's how it is supposed to work

Are you saying when Jake performs the Focus Action, he can boost and barrel roll?

I can see him focussing, doing a boost or barrel roll then having Jan assign him a focus token and Jake doing a boost or barrel roll. What ever he didn't do the first time.

Check out page 11 of the rules. Performing the Focus Action is different than having a Focus Token assigned to you.

19 minutes ago, Stoneface said:

Are you saying when Jake performs the Focus Action, he can boost and barrel roll?

I can see him focussing, doing a boost or barrel roll then having Jan assign him a focus token and Jake doing a boost or barrel roll. What ever he didn't do the first time.

Check out page 11 of the rules. Performing the Focus Action is different than having a Focus Token assigned to you.

He's right. There's no question that this isn't how he's supposed to work, but you perform a Focus action (trigger Jake) which involves assigning Jake a Focus token (trigger Jake).

The only RAW way I see out of this is to say that "when you perform a Focus action" and "when you are assigned a Focus token" are the same timing window, and invoke Once Per Opportunity.

1 hour ago, digitalbusker said:

He's right. There's no question that this isn't how he's supposed to work, but you perform a Focus action (trigger Jake) which involves assigning Jake a Focus token (trigger Jake).

The only RAW way I see out of this is to say that "when you perform a Focus action" and "when you are assigned a Focus token" are the same timing window, and invoke Once Per Opportunity.

I thought of that, but the ruling of multiple triggers for multiple tokens sets a precedent that that isnt the case. You can get two focus tokens at the same time and 'once per opportunity' doesn't limit you.

1 hour ago, Stoneface said:

Check out page 11 of the rules. Performing the Focus Action is different than having a Focus Token assigned to you.

Yes, and that's exactly why it works (in principle, at least).

Quote

FOCUS
Ships with the [Focus] icon in their action bar may perform the focus action. To perform the action, assign one focus token to the ship .

Emphasis mine. The action and the assign are both triggers.

Didn't notice that FFG used the word assign for using the Focus Action. You're right, that RAW, it should trigger Jake's ability twice.

53 minutes ago, InquisitorM said:

I thought of that, but the ruling of multiple triggers for multiple tokens sets a precedent that that isnt the case. You can get two focus tokens at the same time and 'once per opportunity' doesn't limit you.

I agree that this interpretation doesn't seem supported. If it did wind up being the case it would have to come down to some kind of idea of simple versus complex actions, i.e. since Rage has you doing a bunch of stuff you've got a bunch of timing windows, but a Focus action is just a wrapper for assigning a Focus... Anyway.

I hope that, if and when we get a FAQ entry on Jake, it's just a fiat "this doesn't work" rather than something that attempts to justify itself within other rules and creates other conflicts.

17 minutes ago, digitalbusker said:

I hope that, if and when we get a FAQ entry on Jake, it's just a fiat "this doesn't work" rather than something that attempts to justify itself within other rules and creates other conflicts.

In other words it'll be the latter.

27 minutes ago, ObiWonka said:

In other words it'll be the latter.

You know it.

But in truth, it will never get ruled. I mentioned this aaaaaaages ago and no-one has ever tried to use it. Can't see anyone trying to do it now. People know it's a glitch, same as Lightning Reflexes .

This seems like a simple fix. Errata Jake to say "when you are assigned a focus token..." This paired with the clarification that taking the focus action assigns a focus token solves the problem with no conflict. Unless anyone has examples of things that trigger off of a focus token being assigned but don't trigger off of the focus action.

Jake and Jan. Jake takes a Focus action but never gets assigned a Focus token.

And they came out in the same pack so it probably came up in playtesting.

They could errata Jake to say: "After you are assigned a focus token or would be assigned a focus token, you may perform a free boost or barrel roll action." Seeing as performing the action is assigning one focus token, I don't see the need for "After you perform a focus action." Using "or would be" allows Jake to still trigger off a focus action with Jan Ors (crew) intervention. And, in grammatical English tenses, "are assigned" and "would be assigned" cannot both occur at the same time as to the implication in "would" being that I was intended to receive this token but have not received said token.

If I were to make a vain and futile effort to explain how he works as he works and no one tries to do both:

Taking the focus action requires you to assign a focus token. Jake's ability says "After you" as the prefix to the entire circumstance. So, to make a forced case, if you perform a focus action and are assigned a focus token the trigger for his ability is after both are completed - both are completed simultaneously. I.e.: you have finished performing a focus action when the focus token is assigned and the focus token is assigned when the focus action is completed. If you take the entire first phrase "After you perform a focus action or are assigned a focus token" as triggering in its entirety at the instance where you are both after assigning a token and performing the action and apply basic computational logic to it you'd end up looking at the one point in time ("After") and checking to see if either you performed a focus action or assigned a token. If at least one instance equates as true (has happened) then you get the free choice of action. Most notably, the free choice of one action. If both instances equate as true then at least one instance is true so you get the one free action.

If I am still making sense... Computer Logic for the "OR" logic operator and this case would functions as: If Condition1 OR Condition 2 are true, then do X. If Condition1 is True and Condition2 is False the computer will do X. If Condition1 is False and Condition2 is True the computer will do X. Now, for the grand finale, if Condition1 AND Condition2 are true the computer will still do X.

You're overthinking it guys!

The rules state:

Quote

Ships with the focus (eyeball) icon in their action bar may perform the focus action. To perform the action, assign one focus token to the ship.

You cannot perform the action, then assign the token and consider it two triggers, because assigning the token IS performing the action. It's not a case of " I'm going to perform a focus action and then assign a focus token ". It's actually " I'm going to perform a focus action BY assigning a focus token ".
End result - one trigger only.

Like I said, drawing a distinction between simple and complex actions.

3 hours ago, Parravon said:

You're overthinking it guys!

The rules state:

You cannot perform the action, then assign the token and consider it two triggers, because assigning the token IS performing the action. It's not a case of " I'm going to perform a focus action and then assign a focus token ". It's actually " I'm going to perform a focus action BY assigning a focus token ".
End result - one trigger only.

Faulty premise. The idea that he triggers twice is not based in the sequence 'I'm going to perform the action, then assign a focus'. No-one made that claim.

The concept is that if Jake can trigger off a focus action in which a focus token is not assigned (because Jan Ors), then the action and the assignment are different factors. Either there are two triggers or Jake can't react if Jan changes his focus into an evade. One of these things must necessarily be true, and for a focus action not to be a focus action because it didn't assign a focus token would raise other, more complicated, questions.

1 hour ago, InquisitorM said:

Faulty premise. The idea that he triggers twice is not based in the sequence 'I'm going to perform the action, then assign a focus'. No-one made that claim.

The concept is that if Jake can trigger off a focus action in which a focus token is not assigned (because Jan Ors ), then the action and the assignment are different factors. Either there are two triggers or Jake can't react if Jan changes his focus into an evade. One of these things must necessarily be true, and for a focus action not to be a focus action because it didn't assign a focus token would raise other, more complicated, questions.

I think you're missing the point I was trying to make, which was more in reply to your first post where you stated " he should get a boost and a barrel roll from taking a focus action and thus assigning himself a focus token ". I wasn't trying to nullify any argument concerning the interaction with Jan. With Jan involved, you perform the action but simply change the token being assigned. But, it's still not going to provide two trigger points. I am definitely not saying anything along the lines of a focus action is no longer a focus action because Jan changed the token.

Ahh, no, I think you're missing the point. The interaction with Jan is what shows that the fact that you have performed a focus action is entirely separate from whether or not you actually got assigned a focus token. So if that triggers Jake already then adding being assigned a focus token in addition ought to trigger him twice.

I think in the case of Jan Ors, she intercepts the focus token and replaces it with an evade token. I believe this is similar to the ruling for Captain Yorr and stress, where abilities do not trigger if the ship does not receive the token.

Good question to ask FFG.

Yeah this one comes up from time to time, its funny that it hasn’t created more discussion previously as its pretty clear RAW he should get 2 triggers from the way the RRG describes the resolution of the Focus action, yet I think that it really would be hard to argue that it was intentional that Jake gets 3 actions when he performs the focus action!!

Real simple fix, but FFG are too lazy to hire someone with a thesaurus it seems, all the need to do is change the RRG from:

"Assign a focus token to that ship"

To

"Place a focus token next to that ship" or "Place a focus token with that ship"

Either option remains functionally identical without creating these sorts of issues for any existing issues like Jake, as well as pre-emptively dealing with the issue for any future abilities similar to Jake.