in all core rulebooks it says this on competitive checks

person A and person B(for example)want to compete in a arm wrestle

A with better stats, gets 2 success 3 advantage

B with worse stats, gets 1 success 1 triumph 3 threat

A okay and he has 3 advantage

B wins but is sore because of threat.

But what about the triumph!!!???!

Does B get nothing from it??????

A Triumph counts as one success and also something else awesome. That awesome thing isn't succeeding at the check, though.

Why then does the rulebooks ignore it

33 minutes ago, Matt Skywalker said:

Why then does the rulebooks ignore it

In the example you gave, assuming the total of successes you list is taking into account any negations, they would tie.

1 suxx + 1 Triumph = 2 suxx. Again, unless you were negating that and not listing this, that means they both end with 2 suxx, one with threat, the other with advantage.

In your example, you say that B wins....but I'm not sure how. Per the math you listed, A should've won.

Is this a typo on your part, or is this how you meant the result to show as? Because if so, I have NO idea how that actually happened. Per your numbers, A should win, and the threat/advantage/triumph would be listed as other things.

If I were B, and I lost (which your math suggest), I would have the result be that despite losing, he put up such a good fight, and given his underdog status, that the crowd is behind him, despite his loss. That someone from the crowd (perhaps a scout for a sporting event), likes his persona in the bout, and offers him another job, doing something different, but one that would play on his ability to win a crowd's devotion. Or perhaps, the Triumph is that someone in the crowd, bet on him to lose, and made out with a good bit of winnings. And, after seeing the valiant attempt by B to try and win, he gives him a cut of the winnings, as a consolation. "Good show old chap! Better luck next time! Here's some credits so you can go to a cantina and drink away that sore arm you're going to have in the morning! Cheerio!" Think of the movie Nacho Libre for an example of what I'm talking about. After their first fight, the manager comes in and hands them a stack of cash. "Good fight, the crowd liked you. You want to fight again? You will always be welcome here." They are surprised, given they lost, but realized "Hey, we could make a living by losing, but putting up a good show!"

That kind of stuff, is what a Triumph would represent. Not a victory.

But again, the math, it hurts mah brain meats. Please clarify for me.

1 minute ago, KungFuFerret said:

In the example you gave, assuming the total of successes you list is taking into account any negations, they would tie.

1 suxx + 1 Triumph = 2 suxx. Again, unless you were negating that and not listing this, that means they both end with 2 suxx, one with threat, the other with advantage.

In your example, you say that B wins....but I'm not sure how. Per the math you listed, A should've won.

Is this a typo on your part, or is this how you meant the result to show as? Because if so, I have NO idea how that actually happened. Per your numbers, A should win, and the threat/advantage/triumph would be listed as other things.

If I were B, and I lost (which your math suggest), I would have the result be that despite losing, he put up such a good fight, and given his underdog status, that the crowd is behind him, despite his loss. That someone from the crowd (perhaps a scout for a sporting event), likes his persona in the bout, and offers him another job, doing something different, but one that would play on his ability to win a crowd's devotion. Or perhaps, the Triumph is that someone in the crowd, bet on him to lose, and made out with a good bit of winnings. And, after seeing the valiant attempt by B to try and win, he gives him a cut of the winnings, as a consolation. "Good show old chap! Better luck next time! Here's some credits so you can go to a cantina and drink away that sore arm you're going to have in the morning! Cheerio!"

That kind of stuff, is what a Triumph would represent. Not a victory.

But again, the math, it hurts mah brain meats. Please clarify for me.

I meant the symbols. that 1 triumph is a success and a triumph

Just now, Matt Skywalker said:

I meant the symbols. that 1 triumph is a success and a triumph

So what do you mean the book ignores it? Because in the part of the book explaining dice rules, it does explain this dual nature of Triumph/Despair.

What I mean is, that in the competitive check example, the positive bonus for triumph is ignored.

WHY?????

15 minutes ago, Matt Skywalker said:

What I mean is, that in the competitive check example, the positive bonus for triumph is ignored.

WHY?????

If the book actually says the specific example you have posted, then it seems like a typo, because I have NO idea how someone with 2 suxx loses to someone with only 1. It is doubly confusing, because in the example as you wrote it, the person with the lower total of suxx WINS. So apparently they didn't ignore the positive bonus for the Triumph, if by positive bonus you mean "also counts as a suxx"

If you are just referring to "why didn't they flesh out what the Triumph result would be in the descriptive text", again, might be a typo. Or it might be that they didn't want to go into that, as the main focus of the example was explaining competitive checks. That they'd already explained how you would describe a Triumph, and just left it out of the example.

Which Core Rulebook are you referencing, Matt? The example of competitive checks in the F&D CRB is about bargaining (p. 33). Unless there's another one I'm overlooking?

I was giving my own example

2 minutes ago, Matt Skywalker said:

I was giving my own example

Well, in that case, the CRB does talk about the Triumph. In the competitive haggling example on p. 33, Pon rolls a Triumph and wins the crystal over Belandi. For the Triumph, he gets the dealer to tell him where he got the crystal. So KFF is right; the Triumph isn't an auto-win, but it causes something else beneficial to happen.

If the two *are* tied for successes I'd probably use advantage/threat to tie break, similar to initiative.

From what you described player A wins the contest but Player B manages to walk off with the prize after the contest sparks a bar room brawl leaving Player B battered and bruised.

Although Player B now has whatever prize they were contesting each other for, Player A finds themselves in a better position afterwards because they tried to help calm things down which is the distraction Player B uses to steal the winnings.

Approached afterwards with a particularly profitable cargo run Player A walks back to their ship with the good news whilst Player B is sleeping off the booze they drank to help ease the various injuries they suffered to get away.

Does that help?