nice, the Crab known for their defense and siege engines are depicted defending the wall brilliantly with such contraptions!

can't wait for the Lion fic to highlight their offensive battle acumen! I just know they gonna bust balls when they go battle!

Very happy with the fictions so far. Good job, FFG.

3 hours ago, Kuni Katsuyoshi said:

Let the Phoenix have those shenanigans. The Crab are busy.

No.
Maho is boring, and its propagation by the Phoenix is stupid. ( Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam )

I nominate the Crane, since Asahina Yajinden and Daidoji Rekai were two of the finest Shadowlands agents in the history of the Empire. And, you know, I hate them.

As for the actual fiction: Pretty friggin' good! Probably my favorite thus far (no Crane except for a sneering aside about how lame they are, good battle description, good character notes, Crab being Crab without being monotonous).

3 minutes ago, Shiba Gunichi said:

No.
Maho is boring, and its propagation by the Phoenix is stupid. ( Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam )

I nominate the Crane, since Asahina Yajinden and Daidoji Rekai were two of the finest Shadowlands agents in the history of the Empire. And, you know, I hate them.

As for the actual fiction: Pretty friggin' good! Probably my favorite thus far (no Crane except for a sneering aside about how lame they are, good battle description, good character notes, Crab being Crab without being monotonous).

And no "Dumb and brutish, lewd and loud, farting and laughing, with a hint of goofy good heartness that only simpletons can exhibit" crane propaganda

9 minutes ago, Shiba Gunichi said:

No.
Maho is boring, and its propagation by the Phoenix is stupid. ( Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam )

I nominate the Crane, since Asahina Yajinden and Daidoji Rekai were two of the finest Shadowlands agents in the history of the Empire. And, you know, I hate them.

As for the actual fiction: Pretty friggin' good! Probably my favorite thus far (no Crane except for a sneering aside about how lame they are, good battle description, good character notes, Crab being Crab without being monotonous).

I guess fobbing 'Stupid Evil' off on the Crane would be fine, but what are Phoenix going to get up to without it?

The Rokugani equivalent of 'Occupy Wall St.'?

Just now, Kuni Katsuyoshi said:

I guess fobbing 'Stupid Evil' off on the Crane would be fine, but what are Phoenix going to get up to without it?

Our job. For a change.

1 minute ago, Kuni Katsuyoshi said:

I guess fobbing 'Stupid Evil' off on the Crane would be fine, but what are Phoenix going to get up to without it?

The Rokugani equivalent of 'Occupy Wall St.'?

Tsuruchi pincushions?

1 minute ago, Shiba Gunichi said:

Our job. For a change.

You mean the whole annoying traditionalist busybodies thing?

Just now, Kuni Katsuyoshi said:

You mean the whole annoying traditionalist busybodies thing?

It certainly seems to be the genesis of the whole Meishodo conflict.

But I also just want to see the Phoenix awash in ridiculous idealism- they Crane may care about perfection, but the Phoenix are the ones who reach for the stars while their feet remain stuck in the mud.

1 minute ago, Shiba Gunichi said:

Our job. For a change.

I truly don't mean for this to sound rude in any way, but I'm curious what you see the Phoenix job/role as? I ask because I struggled to define that in my head (and you seem to be a foremost expert on Phoenix). I kind of came up with elemental experts/keepers of knowledge, but I would defer to you.

And then, a Kaiu engineered automatic ladder drives by transporting a well organized group of Crabs who start stabbing the stars, pluck them out the sky, and throw them at shadowlands as a new ammo type, while Phoenix is going apathethic frog looking at it, with their hand extended.

Just now, Shiba Gunichi said:

It certainly seems to be the genesis of the whole Meishodo conflict.

But I also just want to see the Phoenix awash in ridiculous idealism- they Crane may care about perfection, but the Phoenix are the ones who reach for the stars while their feet remain stuck in the mud.

Yes, stick-in-the-mud fits the Phoenix very well

As long as the idealism remains ridiculous and doesnt veer into ludicrous

3 minutes ago, WHW said:

And then, a Kaiu engineered automatic ladder drives by transporting a well organized group of Crabs who start stabbing the stars, pluck them out the sky, and throw them at shadowlands as a new ammo type, while Phoenix is going apathethic frog looking at it, with their hand extended.

I think the Kaiu will perfect the Crane-Thrower first

Just now, YasukiKaito said:

I truly don't mean for this to sound rude in any way, but I'm curious what you see the Phoenix job/role as? I ask because I struggled to define that in my head (and you seem to be a foremost expert on Phoenix). I kind of came up with elemental experts/keepers of knowledge, but I would defer to you.

Okay, see, here's the thing that the maho-heads keep obfuscating in their loud calls for more blood sorcery because for some reason they think it's fun/cool-

If the Crane are the arbiters of Rokugani artistic and social culture, if the Crab are the guys who hold the line against the Shadowlands, the Phoenix are supposed to be the guys who look out for spiritual threats (not just heresy or maho or the like, but also stuff like, "whoa, the spirits of that river are ANGRY, let us see if we can work something out, and if not... uh, stand clear). They're meant to be the guardians of orthodox Rokugani spirituality- part of why they historically got written as not being too big on the Jade Championship is that it is (rightly, going off of their basic purpose) seen as an insult to their expertise.

They're not really about navel-gazing enlightenment or deeper unknowable wisdom (that's the Dragon), they're about making sure the spiritual rules of Rokugan are respected and obeyed to maintain harmony.

1 minute ago, Shiba Gunichi said:

Okay, see, here's the thing that the maho-heads keep obfuscating in their loud calls for more blood sorcery because for some reason they think it's fun/cool-

If the Crane are the arbiters of Rokugani artistic and social culture, if the Crab are the guys who hold the line against the Shadowlands, the Phoenix are supposed to be the guys who look out for spiritual threats (not just heresy or maho or the like, but also stuff like, "whoa, the spirits of that river are ANGRY, let us see if we can work something out, and if not... uh, stand clear). They're meant to be the guardians of orthodox Rokugani spirituality- part of why they historically got written as not being too big on the Jade Championship is that it is (rightly, going off of their basic purpose) seen as an insult to their expertise.

They're not really about navel-gazing enlightenment or deeper unknowable wisdom (that's the Dragon), they're about making sure the spiritual rules of Rokugan are respected and obeyed to maintain harmony.

In other words

annoying traditionalist busybodies.

Whis is pretty much never touched upon because it would require admitting and working with a idea that not everything spiritual in the empire is

a) Shadowlands related

b) sexy and able to reproduce with humans

Phoenix is the clan that would benefit the most from injecting more folklore, yokai and "everyday spirituality" into the setting. Without it, they are mostly silly or asshattish elemental benders who exist mostly to be either plot devices or FORBBIDEN KNOWLEDGE IS COOL.

3 minutes ago, Shiba Gunichi said:

Okay, see, here's the thing that the maho-heads keep obfuscating in their loud calls for more blood sorcery because for some reason they think it's fun/cool-

If the Crane are the arbiters of Rokugani artistic and social culture, if the Crab are the guys who hold the line against the Shadowlands, the Phoenix are supposed to be the guys who look out for spiritual threats (not just heresy or maho or the like, but also stuff like, "whoa, the spirits of that river are ANGRY, let us see if we can work something out, and if not... uh, stand clear). They're meant to be the guardians of orthodox Rokugani spirituality- part of why they historically got written as not being too big on the Jade Championship is that it is (rightly, going off of their basic purpose) seen as an insult to their expertise.

They're not really about navel-gazing enlightenment or deeper unknowable wisdom (that's the Dragon), they're about making sure the spiritual rules of Rokugan are respected and obeyed to maintain harmony.

And I'm gong to reply with a big "Hear, hear!" as well as liking that post, it's so important.

If you want to know how to interact with the Rokugani religion, ask the Phoenix. Heck, Shiba wrote the Tao of Shinsei!

Last years anime Fukigen no Monokean would make a good Phoenix story.

6 minutes ago, Shiba Gunichi said:

Okay, see, here's the thing that the maho-heads keep obfuscating in their loud calls for more blood sorcery because for some reason they think it's fun/cool-

If the Crane are the arbiters of Rokugani artistic and social culture, if the Crab are the guys who hold the line against the Shadowlands, the Phoenix are supposed to be the guys who look out for spiritual threats (not just heresy or maho or the like, but also stuff like, "whoa, the spirits of that river are ANGRY, let us see if we can work something out, and if not... uh, stand clear). They're meant to be the guardians of orthodox Rokugani spirituality- part of why they historically got written as not being too big on the Jade Championship is that it is (rightly, going off of their basic purpose) seen as an insult to their expertise.

They're not really about navel-gazing enlightenment or deeper unknowable wisdom (that's the Dragon), they're about making sure the spiritual rules of Rokugan are respected and obeyed to maintain harmony.

Thanks - much appreciated!

1 minute ago, WHW said:

Whis is pretty much never touched upon because it would require admitting and working with a idea that not everything spiritual in the empire is

a) Shadowlands related

b) sexy and able to reproduce with humans

Phoenix is the clan that would benefit the most from injecting more folklore, yokai and "everyday spirituality" into the setting. Without it, they are mostly silly or asshattish elemental benders who exist mostly to be either plot devices or FORBBIDEN KNOWLEDGE IS COOL.

Exactly. You can't write the Phoenix well unless you also write well the stuff the Phoenix are supposed to deal with. And the setting has often fallen down on that point, hard.

Lies, Phoenix is all about burnination and botany,

Or combination of both.

but mostly botany.

Actually, one of the reasons why I don't like the non human races in L5R is that they are kind of an excuse for "what, there are non human non shadowlands things in the empire!", but they follow the western fantasy model of "funny looking humans or antromorphic animals having a social structure relatable and similar to humans", while taking up space for the yokai and "supernatural and folklore is kind of everyday thing", where "non humans" dont have to form empires tribes or overall be a "society".

1 minute ago, Tonbo Karasu said:

And I'm gong to reply with a big "Hear, hear!" as well as liking that post, it's so important.

If you want to know how to interact with the Rokugani religion, ask the Phoenix. Heck, Shiba wrote the Tao of Shinsei!

1 minute ago, Tonbo Karasu said:

And I'm gong to reply with a big "Hear, hear!" as well as liking that post, it's so important.

If you want to know how to interact with the Rokugani religion, ask the Phoenix. Heck, Shiba wrote the Tao of Shinsei!

It would be a big enough change to see the Phoenix being RIGHT in their busybodiness for a change

5 minutes ago, Kuni Katsuyoshi said:

In other words

annoying traditionalist busybodies.

And the people who looked at a heretical cult and said "This could be a problem, execute the ringleaders."

Also the people who said "That Minor clan has been taken over by a Shuten Doji, we must kill them all."

Just now, Kuni Katsuyoshi said:

It would be a big enough change to see the Phoenix being RIGHT in their busybodiness for a change

Believe me, that was an incredibly sore point going into the New Moto Curse in AEG's story- the Phoenix had been either wrong or, "correct but so what?" for YEARS on the spiritual front.

It meant their credibility was in the sewer when they got handed an incredibly divisive claim to make.