If Huge Ships in epic play removed one energy for each stress token when they performed their maneuver (just like with ion tokens). Would it it help to balance Epic more?
Huge Ship Stress
Er, no. If anything, the Huge ships are underpowered, not overpowered.
Huge ships really need to be able to use both the focus action and focus tokens. It'd make the support crew who pass focus around when missing really useful. Of course, it'd make it even more worthwhile to focus fire on opposing huge ships...(pun intended.)
Huge ships really don't need focus - their inability to use it is an intentional weakness and they generally have means to get around it (turbolasers have an inbuilt focus-to-hit, Han Solo lets you spend target locks as focus, wookie commandoes let you reroll focus, anyone can spend Esege Tuku's focus, etc).
The ability to ignore stress is a useful counterbalance - it means, for example, that General Hux is an awesome choice to put on a capital ship (as he should be!) but the ship itself won't benefit.
Huge ships don't need toning down - if anything they're seen as weaker than equivalent points of small ships - but that's not entirely true; they're good, they just need to be supported right.
1 hour ago, Gilarius said:Huge ships really need to be able to use both the focus action and focus tokens. It'd make the support crew who pass focus around when missing really useful. Of course, it'd make it even more worthwhile to focus fire on opposing huge ships...(pun intended.)
Lame for some reason I thought Operations Specialist DID work with epic ships.
I suppose I was wondering if Zuckuss on a CROC was as evil as it sounded.
1 hour ago, AngryAlbatross said:I suppose I was wondering if Zuckuss on a CROC was as evil as it sounded.
The CROC is at least limited to only one attack per round. If S&V get access to a dual-card huge ship like the CR90 or Raider that can make 4-6 attacks per round, unlimited Zuckuss for 1pt would probably be a
real
problem. Dengar is a real problem as well, as he's basically like giving a huge ship a better version of Predator for a mere 3pts.
So, for 4pts, an S&V dual-card huge would be able to re-roll 1-2 dice on every attack and force the target to reroll all of their green dice. This is so far and beyond what the Imperials can attempt to do with Jonus and/or Howlrunner next to a Raider while also being drastically cheaper. So, either this means that S&V are very unlikely to get a dual-card huge ship capable of multiple attacks like the Rebs and Imps have, or it means that when such a ship comes out it'll be zonkers broken compared to Rebel and Imperial options (which would match a lot of the Scum standard play stuff, haha).
8 minutes ago, AllWingsStandyingBy said:The CROC is at least limited to only one attack per round. If S&V get access to a dual-card huge ship like the CR90 or Raider that can make 4-6 attacks per round, unlimited Zuckuss for 1pt would probably be a real problem. Dengar is a real problem as well, as he's basically like giving a huge ship a better version of Predator for a mere 3pts.
So, for 4pts, an S&V dual-card huge would be able to re-roll 1-2 dice on every attack and force the target to reroll all of their green dice. This is so far and beyond what the Imperials can attempt to do with Jonus and/or Howlrunner next to a Raider while also being drastically cheaper. So, either this means that S&V are very unlikely to get a dual-card huge ship capable of multiple attacks like the Rebs and Imps have, or it means that when such a ship comes out it'll be zonkers broken compared to Rebel and Imperial options (which would match a lot of the Scum standard play stuff, haha).
My personal guess is that if a "combat" huge ship appears for the Scum then it will simply have a limited number of crew spots. Maybe even just one. I mean let's face if, if you have just one crew spot then can you really afford to use Zuckuss? He would have no effect on an opponent's huge ship (except against a primary ranged attack at range 3).
Now Epic needs balance? Definitely don't agree with that premise.
Besides, an Epic ship is capped at 5 Energy max storage (6 for Bright Hope); making it even tougher to re-energize will make Epic even tougher than it already can be. Especially once Epic ships start to take critical hits.
1 hour ago, AngryAlbatross said:Lame for some reason I thought Operations Specialist DID work with epic ships.
I suppose I was wondering if Zuckuss on a CROC was as evil as it sounded.
The cheapest C-Roc that I can configure which can reliably fire (and deliver a nice amount of hits) every round costs around 49 points (Dengar, turret, Zuckuss, Optimised generator). If you want it to survive, you need to add a bit more like a title, backup shield generator or other upgrade. That's 49 points for a single attack per round. Against another huge ship, Zuckuss has no effect (no agility and it's a secondary weapon) and Dengar allows only 1 reroll. It's definitely not a huge ship killer.
Now bear in mind that the C-Roc is deployed at PS 1 and both the Raider and corvette deploy at PS 4. They also have multiple weapon systems that can fire at a range 4-5 and thanks to their higher PS rating, they get to deploy to make maximum use of this range advantage. And the thug droids upgrade card that came with the C-Roc? It allows the Raider and corvette to deliver multiple crits per round (not bad for a 1 point upgrade) before the C-Roc even has the chance to fire.
As it currently stands, the C-Roc is interesting, but hardly a broken piece of the Epic meta.
huge ships are horrifically underpowered.... this would nerf them to hell and back.
6 hours ago, AngryAlbatross said:If Huge Ships in epic play removed one energy for each stress token when they performed their maneuver (just like with ion tokens). Would it it help to balance Epic more?
When I hear questions like this, I wonder if some of the upgrades aren't being played correctly.
41 minutes ago, Stoneface said:When I hear questions like this, I wonder if some of the upgrades aren't being played correctly.
To me (having not played much epic) it seemed that ignoring stress was a major upgrade to Epic ships. But as others pointed out, big ships cost too much for what they do already. Ignoring stress then is not as big a deal as I thought it was haha.
The C-Roc is a Scum ship, therefore it must be nerfed, because scum only get overpowered ships, right guys?
7 hours ago, AllWingsStandyingBy said:... If S&V get access to a dual-card huge ship like the CR90 or Raider that can make 4-6 attacks per round, unlimited Zuckuss for 1pt would probably be a real problem. Dengar is a real problem as well, as he's basically like giving a huge ship a better version of Predator for a mere 3pts.
So, for 4pts, an S&V dual-card huge would be able to re-roll 1-2 dice on every attack and force the target to reroll all of their green dice...
Two low impact errata could resolve this quite simply:
Append Zuckuss to "once per round".
Append Dengar to "Small or Large ship only."
stress is only the effect on the pilot. Huge ships do not get stress because their dial uses an energy management system instead of a stress management system.
For pilots their maneuvers are restricted by stress, but for huge ships it is energy. Do high speed moves and turns, get less energy.
As for now there is no reason for Huge ships to take stress. For those that think that is too much of an advantage let me tell you that huge ships cannot get focus or evade tokens either. So when it comes to action economy the huge ships got the worst of the deal, no stress, but no focus either.
As noted, it depends on what crew slots a theoretical scum corvette has. I would imagine it'll be crew-light for precisely this reason; scum faction-only crew is some of the best going, and few of them wouldn't work on a huge ship.
At the moment, a Zuckuss/Dengar CROC is nasty as hell......but ultimately, not really all that much different to Moralo Eval with a Heavy Laser Cannon and the same guys in his crew. Except he can have 4-LOM as well .
The CROC isn't bad, by any stretch of the imagination, but if you're trying to buy it purely as a gunship it's not going to do all that well.
Yes, it can deliver one "holy god!" shot with disposable capacitors (that is definitely something to respect...) but whilst disposable capacitors come with the CROC they're not limited to it, and attaching them to a CR-90's power-ed up 5-dice primary shot (or turbolasers) is going to leave a much, much bigger hole because it can pick a target and blow it to matchwood at range 5, whilst the CROC fails at one of the two most important skill of 'combat' epic ships - putting holes in the enemy fleet before they get into combat range.
Besides which, in an epic game the most important thing you can bring is Jabba The Hutt. People can argue whether or not you can come up with an effective use for his abiltiy in a 100 point squad when you have to spend just over 1/3 of it to field him in the cheapest ship that can carry him, but in a 300 point epic squad, he can easily be giving you multiple turns of use on a dozen or more illicit upgrades, making him a freakin' bargain.
Epic games tend to have so much firepower that the first couple of turns are often decisive - having an en-masse glitterstim for both those turns can win you the game.
14 hours ago, ABXY said:Two low impact errata could resolve this quite simply:
Append Zuckuss to "once per round".
Append Dengar to "Small or Large ship only."
Of course, but this seems highly unlikely to happen. FFG has demonstrated a complete disinterest in offering rulings for Epic, as evidenced by the fact that "officially" one cannot even use a Gozanti or a C-ROC as they have unspecified Epic Point values. Similarly, there are inconsistencies in Epic Play setup between the Standard 300pt and Team 400pt version that seem to merely exist only because one section was updated and the other wasn't. Neither of the Epic documents have been updated in over a year, well before even the Gozanti released. So we've had two Epic products release without FFG touching the official Epic documents, which is a real shame since I think it's the game's best format (both casually and competitively).
So I'm not hopeful FFG would bother with offering such errata when/if the Scum get a epic gunship. That being said, of course both of those errata are quite reasonable and I'd certainly put house rules similar to them into effect for Epic events I TO.
On 7/6/2017 at 3:08 AM, Magnus Grendel said:Huge ships really don't need focus - their inability to use it is an intentional weakness... ... anyone can spend Esege Tuku's focus , etc).
no, huge ships cannot spend Esege Tuketu's focus. Huge ships cannot perform focus actions, be assigned focus tokens, or spend focus tokens.
4 hours ago, Infinite_Maelstrom said:no, huge ships cannot spend Esege Tuketu's focus. Huge ships cannot perform focus actions, be assigned focus tokens, or spend focus tokens.
As per FFG ruling it can
On 7/9/2017 at 8:44 PM, Sasajak said:As per FFG ruling it can
What!?!?! Doesn't it say explicitly in every huge ship rulebook that huge ships Cannot Spend Focus Tokens ?!
Edited by Infinite_Maelstrom24 minutes ago, Infinite_Maelstrom said:What!?!?! Doesn't it say explicitly in every huge ship rulebook that huge ships Cannot Spend Focus Tokens ?!
It's all covered ain the thread. Assumption is that FFG came to this as the huge ship is not spending the token Esege is.
On 7/5/2017 at 9:08 AM, Magnus Grendel said:Huge ships really don't need focus - their inability to use it is an intentional weakness and Rebel Huge ships generally have means to get around it (turbolasers have an inbuilt focus-to-hit, Han Solo lets you spend target locks as focus, wookie commandoes let you reroll focus, anyone can spend Esege Tuku's focus, etc). Imperial and Scum huge ships are still limited to gimmicky re-rolling and hoping that the dice gods favor you the 2nd time around.
Fixed that for you. You were way off.
Edited by HerowannabeOn 06/07/2017 at 9:26 AM, ABXY said:Append Zuckuss to "once per round".
Oh, and another post reminded me - this would probably remove the need for the 1st Zuckuss nerf.
(and bring back the Party Bus without re-making Dengar horribly obnoxious)
18 minutes ago, ABXY said:Oh, and another post reminded me - this would probably remove the need for the 1st Zuckuss nerf.
(and bring back the Party Bus without re-making Dengar horribly obnoxious)
Absolutely not. Even at once per round, original Zuckuss in the 100 point format is a ticking time bomb just waiting for something to break it - and that something is probably already here in the form of Dengar + Fenn + Inaldra.
Edited by DR4COOn 7/9/2017 at 1:44 AM, Sasajak said:As per FFG ruling it can
I wish FFG would just come out and Aggressor it because there are some people who would have tried to give the new TIE IG-2000 title. Sort of like this one below.
19 hours ago, Infinite_Maelstrom said:What!?!?! Doesn't it say explicitly in every huge ship rulebook that huge ships Cannot Spend Focus Tokens ?!
No it says I am to take your models throw them on the ground and stomp all over them. Well that's just my interpretation on it since there is nothing the the FAQ to say specifically I can't.