Hi everyone

yesterday PC arrived at the end of a long adventure; they encountered a Jedi Master turned Sith. It was late, and i was tired, so in lieu of using one of the many fancy tactics i carefully studied (ie creating illusions to divide them, using an apprentice with lot of defensive skills to defend himself, etc) he just used Move to throw a big stone statue's head (sil 2) againts a random target. Inflicting 20 damage past soak, and putting her immediately out of actions.
The the group's Jedi retaliate with Move, crushing him under the rest of the statue (Sil 3), inflicting 30 damage. End of the less cinematic Jedi fight of all times

So that's a problem.
I'm not talking about the sheer amount of damage a move throw can do; 20 or 30 damage for a single attack you can do almost always is bad, but the Jedi spent around 40 point in Move Force Power, has to roll Force Die and roll enough Force Point (probably using black dot so he also gain conflicts) and still does less of a gunner sitting on a cockpit of an airspeeder switching an emplaced gun fire button... with same difficulty (1).
The problem is having a rather cheap and easy attack who can oneshot one PC and putting him out of action. He's not dead, but he will stop playing, go to the couch and take a nap while the others finish the fight. That's not funny, and also not cinematic. Last but not least: is not even canon because in Ep III Palpatine throw senate pod to Yoda and he just use the Force to stop them, or dodge them.

So... how to solve the problem?
i got some ideas, but they need to be balanced, tested and approved by me and players alike.
I'm open to suggestion, and whant to hear how did you solved the problem, and what do you do to avoid oneshot alpha strike who transform an epic fight on "who wins initiative, win the fight"

I will post some of my personal ideas, so you can see if you like it, what do you think about it and where i'm wrong with them...

(1) Move Force Power for a Sil 3 item is a PPP Discipline check, within short range (unless more points are spent on range increase and/or force point on them). Hititng a human-size target with an airspeeder (sil 2) light laser cannon is a PPP Gunnery check, at close planetary range (equal to extreme character range)

2 minutes ago, kelpie said:

I will post some of my personal ideas, so you can see if you like it, what do you think about it and where i'm wrong with them...

There's my ideas; sorry for big double post, but i would rather divide a big post in half than do a long and no-one-really-read wall text...

a) Move attack is an opposed Discipline roll (if better than standard difficulty)
So the PC can increase Discipline to avoid being an easy target; they still are passive but if they fear to being crushed by a Jedi's Move Power can effectively work their way to increase the survavibility by increasing fail chance for NPC. They of course can use Defense to add black dice and/or special talent (like Dodge or Side Step) to upgrade difficulty dice, etc. (and NPC can use talents and special abilities like Adversary and Force Resilience) to the opposed roll difficulty
The problem is is an all-or-nothing solution: either the attack miss, or oneshot the PC

b) Other Jedi can use Force to deflect away object thrown
The Jedi attacked can use Force Move to intercept an object thrown to him (or to a friendly engaged target). He need to roll a Force Move Power check (and gain enough Force Point to succesfully lift the thrown object) and he need to preventively activate Force Move in the previous round/iniziative slot. Also he can't "throw back" the object, just "throw away" it to avoid being hit.
It does'nt solve the problem of a big stone hurled on a non Jedi PC, but that could be a reason why is advisable to not confront a Sith if you are not a Jedi...

c) Damage is capped to 20, but with more effect for Sil 3+
A sil 0 item does 5 damage. A Sil 1 does 10 damage and a Sil 2 does 20 damage. And that's exactly as normal
However, a Sil 3 item does'nt do 30 damage, but is capped to 20 damage, because being crushed by a car, a truck or a ship has about the same effect on a single person. The big dimension of a Sil 3 give the attack a Blast 10 effect.
A Sil 4 does 20 damage, Blast 15 and also if successfull hit a second target engaged to the first one (plus eventually the blast damage) for base damage only.
A Sil 5 is same than Sil 4 but has a critical of 2
And so on
(those are just few example, of course, i can adjust damage and effect by playtesting it...)
Throw a walker on a single NPC is not really a good choice but can be a really good idea to stop an angry mob or a stormtrooper platoon.
A good fighting PC can survive a single 20 damage shot, or he's easily reanimated by a single use of stimpack/heal power if he can't, and that's the reason why event more individualistic player shoudl bring a friend, companion or minion around. The PC is still unlikely he could survive a second hit, but survive the first one is a big starter...

Note: hurling a Sil 3+ object against a vehicle still does the Sil x 10 damage (who translate on Sil damage on planetary scale). So using a Force Move hurled speeder to intercept a speederbike will still be a good tactic, if you can manage to go close enough and/or increase range enough time...

d) PC (and Nemeses) are not incapacitated when damage is more then Wound Treshold
Rulebook clearly states a PC (or a Nemesis) who's total damage is more than their Wound Treshold are incapacitated and knocked out, and gain a critical wound. However if big amount of damage is rolling on the table, like Sil 4+ boulder thrown or speeder scale gun pointed at PC/NPC, that means easily you can oneshot someone and put them "taking a nap on the couch" at first round of an otherwise epic fight.
With this optional rule, PC are not incapacitated when their damage total is more than WT; they just are incapacitated until the end of the turn, and then can start acting again. However every hit will cause a Critical Hit, so while is very unlikely they will die, after some hit they accumulated enoug setback/upgrade difficulties/adverse condition to be almost out of play.
Nemesis either follow normal rules or this rule, so big epic "final boss" battle are longer (and maybe more cinematic) while standard battle against minions, rivals and low level nemesis are almost unaffected.

If letting the PC take huge amount of damage is totally unbalancing, there also some additional options:
- the PC are incapacitated for some rounds after going over WT (maybe 1 round every 10 damage)
- the PC are either staggered or immobilised every turn (PC's choice)
- the PC are disoriented for a number of time depending on damage untile going under WT (ie adding a black die plus one for every 10 damage over WT)
- the PC need to pass a PPP Discipline (or Resilience ) free roll every turn to act
- the PC can act for a little while before being knocked down (number of round based on the success of a Discipline or Resilience roll with difficulty based on damage)
- the PC is incapacitated but not knocked down: he can do very simple task like yelling for help, reach for a stimpack, fire (with several upgrade to the difficulty) a readied weapon, use a stimpack, slowly crawl behind a cover, etc
- the PC can act with no penalties but self inflict a critical hit if choose to do it

What do you think about?

First move is a ranged attack its difficulty is equal to the sil of the object thrown so a sil 2 object is 2 diff a sil 3 is 3 diff range is not a factor.

Secondly I've seen a starting Bounty Hunter do more damage with a jury rigged Blaster.

So your Boss should be 3 difficulty then add defense then add nemesis ranks then flip a destiny and your talking 2 or 3 black and 2 red and a purple at least.

And yes like all force powers you can resist a hurl force power use with discipline or what ever.

Give your force using villains the Suppress power (from Keeping the Peace) it adds auto failures to force power checks.

51 minutes ago, Decorus said:

So your Boss should be 3 difficulty then add defense then add nemesis ranks then flip a destiny and your talking 2 or 3 black and 2 red and a purple at least.

And yes like all force powers you can resist a hurl force power use with discipline or what ever.

You can resist move with opposed Discipline?

30 minutes ago, Imperial Stormtrooper said:

Give your force using villains the Suppress power (from Keeping the Peace) it adds auto failures to force power checks.

Ok...

however the problem is not really PC vs NPC but viceversa, the NPC who oneshot PC...

Honestly, the OP's incident is one of the outliers with a Force power that generally isn't nearly quite so problematic as the detractors make it out to be.

Though to be fair to the PC, you as the GM did start the fire by showcasing 'hey, I can use Move to take out an opponent in one go!'

That said, there do appear to be a number of other things you missed with regards to the power, but a lot of that can probably be attributed to the you as the GM being tired and probably just wanting to get the session over with. It happens even to the best of us, so no shame in that; even had it happen in a pick-up run by Jay Little at GenCon a few years back, and he's the guy that designed the game.

Now, as to the points missed:

1) Use Move to attack requires a Discipline check as well as a Force power check, with the difficulty of the Discipline check being equal to the silhouette of the object hurled. So to hurl a silhouette 3 object, you need to succeed on a Hard (3 purple) Discipline check. This alone helps keep the power from being too crazy in the early going, since PCs aren't likely to be succeeding that often against the higher difficulties until they've invested significant XP into raising their Discipline.

2) That Discipline check I mentioned? It's also considered a ranged combat check, so if the target has anything that affects the difficulty of ranged combat checks, such as the Adversary talent, that gets applied to the difficulty too. So if you hurl a silhouette 3 object at an Inquisitor (Adversary 3) wearing armored robes (defense 1), then the PC's Discipline check gets upgraded three times and has a setback added. So many of your major opponents already have a built-in defense

3) Also with Move is the fact that if you want the bigger and flashier effects, you've got to pay to play. It's often said that for a starting PC (Force Rating 1), Move is one of the worst possible powers to sink your XP into because at best you're only going to get the base power and an upgrade. And depending on what your starting specialization is, it may be a while before you even get to Force Rating 2 (anywhere from 75 to 100XP generally, provided you didn't start out in any of the Lightsaber Form specs, at which point for five of them you're looking at buying a second specialization while Niman has the highest XP cost to hit Force Rating 2 of any spec in the game thus far).

4) What have the other PCs spent their XP on? While Move is certainly flashy, it's not the only Force power that can be abused to quickly end an encounter. A PC that's invested in Influence can with a successful opposed Discipline check make an NPC believe any one untrue thing ("you don't need to see his identification...") or feel an emotion of the PC's choice. Be pretty easy for a PC that's rolling at least 3 yellows on a Discipline check to make an NPC feel an overwhelming sense of fear and that they should run away, or that there's no need for the NPC to fight because they're actually buddies and friends don't blast friends, right? A PC with Misdirect could create an illusion of anything ranging from Darth Vader literally breathing down their necks to the NPC's mother chiding him for doing bad things and should have worn a sweater it's so cold out. One Force point and a successful Deception vs. Perception check and the NPC is fooled by the illusion, and you just need one Force point and 40 XP for the power, and a Twi'lek Mystic/Advisor can easily start play with Cunning 3 and Deception 2, making this a potential starting PC option, plus how many NPCs really invest that much in Perception? Bind is another example of a way to short-circuit what ought to be a tough encounter, simply be using dark side pips to inflict strain (which some players may not care about, especially if they've already gone dark side) and having bought the control upgrade that forces the target to suffer wounds if they use their action to do anything. I had a Gand Seeker/Hunter in one campaign I was running that was freaking brutal with his heavy blaster rifle, consistently dealing out scads of damage, especially once he picked up the Intuitive Shot talent.

5) What's available to be hurled around by Move is dependent upon how the GM sets the scene. After all, the PCs can't throw around silhouette 3 or 4 objects if there's nothing in the immediate scene that big. Most of my combat encounters I make sure to generally stick to silhouette 2 objects that are readily in the scene, sometimes even just limiting what's easily grabbed to silhouette 1 objects (such as a combat encounter that took place in the Taris Undercity). Yes, there's a control upgrade that lets the PC rip objects out of secured moorings, so it's possible they could tear scenery apart to get those bigger objects, but at that point you're talking about Unnecessary Destruction (from Table 9-2: Common Conflict Penalties), which is 3 to 4 Conflict per incident at the minimum, and could be a lot more depending on the degree of collateral damage the PC causes with tossing such large objects around. Sure you had Starkiller doing it willy-nilly in The Force Unleashed, but remember that for much of the game, he was also a Sith-trained dark sider who probably had a Morality score in the low teens at absolute best. Also, don't be afraid to hand out Conflict for the character's use of excessive force; just because the player knows that a given adversary probably has a wound threshold in the 20's doesn't mean the character is aware of this, and so hurling something the size of an 18-wheeler at somebody is by most sane people's view overkill to the point of the Force user pretty much having intent to murder. We saw Kanan and Ezra drop a couple of walkers onto Vader in the season 2 opening episode, but that was a sheer desperation tactic as Vader had otherwise been toying with them and nearly killed Ezra with his own lightsaber, and they didn't open up with such brute force tactics. If your PC starts every fight with "I grab the biggest thing available and hurl it at the bad guys," then start handing out Conflict for Unnecessary Destruction, even going above the suggested 3 to 4 points for particularly egregious incidents.

It's worth noting that while there is the possibility of Force powers being opposed and thus requiring an opposed skill check (sidebar on page 283), hurling an object with Move doesn't quality because using the hurl objects control upgrade requires a combat check, which the sidebar excludes as being turned into an opposed check.

Everyone should hand out conflict for excessive force once a Jedi pulls out a lightsaber that can cut through durasteel like butter obviously the intent is to murder people and look at the collateral damage it causes.

17 minutes ago, Decorus said:

Everyone should hand out conflict for excessive force once a Jedi pulls out a lightsaber that can cut through durasteel like butter obviously the intent is to murder people and look at the collateral damage it causes.

False equivalency by the bucket load.

While the dice subsume everything into a single roll, generally speaking a person wielding a lightsaber is making direct, precision strikes that don't necessarily result in immediate death, and with a truly skilled practitioner can result in scars that while debilitating are far from lethal, with Count Dooku's two precision cuts to Obi-Wan in AotC being a prime example of that. It's akin to a police sniper trying to take out their target with a single shot. ESB!Luke as well as Kylo and Rey made broad, hacking sweeps because none of them were really trained in how to properly use a lightsaber; Ahsoka showed better skill when she first became Anakin's Padawan in the Clone Wars movie.

And if the PC's first reaction to an encounter is to break out the ligthsaber and start making attack rolls, there's a Conflict penalty for that. And if they slice up an opponent that's already surrendered or is unconscious, there's a Conflict penalty for that, found under the category of Murder.

Dropping half a building on top of a single person isn't precise, and could very much be construed as a terror tactic since, game mechanics aside, the odds of the victim being able to escape the area of impact are remarkably slim.

Really dumb question, as I don't have my book close to hand, but I thought Move used Ranged:Light to hurl things at people, not discipline.

it was mentioned that the damage bypassed soak. Soak still applies in this situation. For equivalence try comparing the influence basic power with the strength up grade , with fr 3 you can apply up to 12 strain damage that bypasses soak without requiring an attack roll. With some upgrades and dropping 2 damage for the magnitude upgrade you get to apply that strain damage to multiple opponents in range, granted you can do siginifcantly more with FR 3 on move but not with the same consistency of influence.

2 minutes ago, P-Dub663 said:

Really dumb question, as I don't have my book close to hand, but I thought Move used Ranged:Light to hurl things at people, not discipline.

You make a ranged combat check using the discipline skill (page 298 F&D core)

3 minutes ago, Donovan Morningfire said:

False equivalency by the bucket load.

While the dice subsume everything into a single roll, generally speaking a person wielding a lightsaber is making direct, precision strikes that don't necessarily result in immediate death, and with a truly skilled practitioner can result in scars that while debilitating are far from lethal, with Count Dooku's two precision cuts to Obi-Wan in AotC being a prime example of that. It's akin to a police sniper trying to take out their target with a single shot. ESB!Luke as well as Kylo and Rey made broad, hacking sweeps because none of them were really trained in how to properly use a lightsaber; Ahsoka showed better skill when she first became Anakin's Padawan in the Clone Wars movie.

And if the PC's first reaction to an encounter is to break out the ligthsaber and start making attack rolls, there's a Conflict penalty for that. And if they slice up an opponent that's already surrendered or is unconscious, there's a Conflict penalty for that, found under the category of Murder.

Dropping half a building on top of a single person isn't precise, and could very much be construed as a terror tactic since, game mechanics aside, the odds of the victim being able to escape the area of impact are remarkably slim.

That and it's also worth noting that exceeding wounds doesn't necessarily equal a kill. A Jedi could be either described as Luke hacking through several people in a clumsy, yet effective manner or Obi-Wan slicing off the Clawdite bounty hunters hand in a single exchange. Lightsabers are a symbol of office that they carry when they are on republic duty, barring their way with violence is an attack on diplomacy itself and thus the Jedi not only require a weapon to effectively defend themselves, but also to deter other assassins and be a proof of office. Cutting anyone down who intends harm is acceptable in protecting the force's interests and it isn't particularly unjust as any act of violence is generally unpleasant.

There are plenty of narrative uses for move object that doesn't require a character to grab the largest object they can find if you don't want to knock them out. Moving multiple pc's, moving objects to cut off line of vision, pulling weapons from a PC's hands, there are plenty of tactics involving move object that doesn't require throwing a whole bus at them.

On the flipside, there isn't anything wrong with having a PC down and out of the action for some time; a more interesting way would have been to spilt up the encounter somehow, like cinematically chucking a PC off a cliff, and giving him a chance to crawl back up it. Though this sounds about right; depending on the emotions coursing through them could prove a good avenue to the darkside; but there is a reason no one in my group took move. We do not want to have that particular kettle of fish as a personal choice and really it's best to establish these things before time. That being said, one can apply reflect to an object like that, and using the force in anger should warrant greater conflict as a narrative boon.

In addition, sometimes if you just can't be bothered to conclude a session because of tiredness; it might be worth ending the session early and tackle the climax when you have your full energy to deal with it. Singular nemesis's cannot take an entire party thus the prospect of running it like a dnd call of having all the players face the inquisitor often will result in an anticlimactic ending.

Fwiw a jedi with 4 willpower and 2 discipline trying to fire a sil 3 item at an adversary 3 target has a 53% chance of success. This is further reduced by the chances of getting enough force pips, and the right color of pips. With FR3 and if you are looking for 3 force pips (range/strength and the basic power) then its 30% chance of getting them the right color (100% if you dont mind) so if you dont flip a DP you have approx 15% of getting 3 pips of the color you want AND successfully making the GGYYRRR roll needed to hit. setback reduces this further (cover or armor)

To add to what Donovan said about Influence , is you can use the emotion upgrade to pull a Nomi Sunrider and turn your enemies against one another as well. Technically, it's a Battle Meditation technique, but in this system it falls under the Influence power.

1 hour ago, Donovan Morningfire said:

False equivalency by the bucket load.

While the dice subsume everything into a single roll, generally speaking a person wielding a lightsaber is making direct, precision strikes that don't necessarily result in immediate death, and with a truly skilled practitioner can result in scars that while debilitating are far from lethal, with Count Dooku's two precision cuts to Obi-Wan in AotC being a prime example of that. It's akin to a police sniper trying to take out their target with a single shot. ESB!Luke as well as Kylo and Rey made broad, hacking sweeps because none of them were really trained in how to properly use a lightsaber; Ahsoka showed better skill when she first became Anakin's Padawan in the Clone Wars movie.

And if the PC's first reaction to an encounter is to break out the ligthsaber and start making attack rolls, there's a Conflict penalty for that. And if they slice up an opponent that's already surrendered or is unconscious, there's a Conflict penalty for that, found under the category of Murder.

Dropping half a building on top of a single person isn't precise, and could very much be construed as a terror tactic since, game mechanics aside, the odds of the victim being able to escape the area of impact are remarkably slim.

It is a false equivalency to claim that move can not be just as precise as a lightsaber or blaster. Hitting someone with a big rock or Slave 1 is not a guaranteed instant death nor should you gain conflict for tossing a heavy object at someone.

So I gave you one false equicalency for another. Bottom line using Move generates as much conflict as using a lightsaber which is usually none.

Thanks for your replies

i'd like to point out something

my player have a lot of XP 'cause i was very generous, and also is almost two years we play, etc. They are in the range of 500 XP more than starting ones. So with Destiny Point and good skills, a RPP roll is not really a problem. Btw the Jedi has YYYY in Discipline and 2 Force Rating. He also have high morality so he can afford a couple conflict; probably if he will start using move throw against everyone he rapidly go toward dark side, but if he keep them for an occasional "big boss battle", he can afford.
As for unnecessary destruction , it seems to me more an excuse to say "not use move to attack enemies" than a real limitation. Btw, in this case he thrown a couple of sith statues debris from a sith temple on moraband, so i really really really don't think giving him conflict for that would be fair

The main Players' concern is about facing Jedi with not Jedi: more powerful the Jedi will become, more powerful his enemies, more difficult will be for non-Jedi to survive. The PC oneshotted was reanimated in the same turn by a stimpack, so he has to act again in the next round; however the angst of being oneshotted without having opportunities to do anything to prevent it , is present. The sensation of uselessness is really a bad thing for the mood.
My player are starting arguing if using FaD Jedi with the AoR/EotE not-Jedi was a wise idea... and i understand their concerns. I don't whanna tell the Jedi Player "your character does'nt fit the group anymore", and i don't whanna tell the not-Jedi Player the same.

But the real problem is another one:
I could accept that not-Jedi can't easily fight a Jedi/Sith (but "not easy" does'nt mean "get pwned without a solution"). I agree there are some situation where you can't Move Throw everything just to solve your problems.
But i really not like a mechanich based on whoever wins the initiative win the fight with a single roll . Because that's how the mechanic works.
We can argue forever about how limit them, how put Player in the situation where they can't use, how not giving Move to the NPC, etc. But the problem is the mechanics is broken, and broken in a way is letting player having no fun into playing. And that's the worst thing of all...

ps: we are also forgot about Palpatine vs Yoda in Ep III. The little green one is clearly stopping the object thrown to him using telekinesys aka Force Move. It could be a Discipline based opposed roll, a force rating opposed roll or something else, but is clearly an opposed skill duel

Its a powerful attack, but there are lots of powerful attacks. If you don't want your Sith to be vulnerable to Force attacks, ya gotta give them the Skills and Talents to fit that. If you don't want the non-Force using PCs to be vulnerable to this, you're well within your "bounds" as a GM to allow them to use Athletics or Coordination or Resilience to avoid the attack.

A jedi with YYYY against RPP with just 1 black (I'm assuming some for of armor with defense here, which is not unreasonable) has just a 66% chance of making the hit. If they required 3 pips to make the check and had a destiny point spare to flip and didnt mind the conflcit from using dark pips still has a 50% chance of not getting 3 pips. So a 33% chance to succeed the attack. If they were instead at short range they could do it with 2 pips and have a 66% to hit.

Ive previously demonstrated, that I can build an earned 300 earned xp non force sensitive character that can punch with a minimum damage of 19 on wounds or strain with a pool of 5 yellow 1 Green that can upgrade his check 3 times for 7 yellow pool. If you want to start with a force sensitive character add another 200 xp and I can add 3 more damage to the minimum add 2 more upgrades and 2 white dice from enhance to the brawl check for a pool of YYYYYYYYWW with about 22 minimum damage.

16 minutes ago, syrath said:

A jedi with YYYY against RPP with just 1 black (I'm assuming some for of armor with defense here, which is not unreasonable) has just a 66% chance of making the hit. If they required 3 pips to make the check and had a destiny point spare to flip and didnt mind the conflcit from using dark pips still has a 50% chance of not getting 3 pips. So a 33% chance to succeed the attack. If they were instead at short range they could do it with 2 pips and have a 66% to hit.

Ive previously demonstrated, that I can build an earned 300 earned xp non force sensitive character that can punch with a minimum damage of 19 on wounds or strain with a pool of 5 yellow 1 Green that can upgrade his check 3 times for 7 yellow pool. If you want to start with a force sensitive character add another 200 xp and I can add 3 more damage to the minimum add 2 more upgrades and 2 white dice from enhance to the brawl check for a pool of YYYYYYYYWW with about 22 minimum damage.

Yes, broken builds are possible, but in the sort of case you describe, it at least takes a bit of work to do it, so the problem can be avoided by not being a munchkin.

On the other hand, if a PC wants to get a Force rating higher than 2, and invest in Move at all (ie, if you want Hurl and at least one Strength upgrade), it's impossible to avoid giving your character an OP hurl attack that does 20-30 damage every time.

In other words: the problem isn't that broken characters are possible, the problem is that the Move mechanic will frequently force players who don't want broken characters to have broken characters.

1 hour ago, kelpie said:

ps: we are also forgot about Palpatine vs Yoda in Ep III. The little green one is clearly stopping the object thrown to him using telekinesys aka Force Move. It could be a Discipline based opposed roll, a force rating opposed roll or something else, but is clearly an opposed skill duel

I interpret it as Yoda using Suppress.

24 minutes ago, DaverWattra said:

Yes, broken builds are possible, but in the sort of case you describe, it at least takes a bit of work to do it, so the problem can be avoided by not being a munchkin.

On the other hand, if a PC wants to get a Force rating higher than 2, and invest in Move at all (ie, if you want Hurl and at least one Strength upgrade), it's impossible to avoid giving your character an OP hurl attack that does 20-30 damage every time.

In other words: the problem isn't that broken characters are possible, the problem is that the Move mechanic will frequently force players who don't want broken characters to have broken characters.

Yet still has a reasonably good chance of missing with a 4 yellow check against 3 purple difficulty.

As for being a munchkin build, the build I refer to is anything but. You can pick up feral strength quite easily in the Maurauder tree and deadly accuracy doesnt cost much in the Gadgeteer tree, this gives +8 to your damage with brawl 5 and still gives a lot of utility along the way. Brawn 6 isnt too difficult to get either with the 2 specs. With refined cortosis gauntlets and a weighted head (cheaper than most rifles) you can get 9 base damage (10 with jury rigged) , there is 19 minimum without being munchkin or useless other ways. Enforcer/maurauder/gadgeteer is more interesting and can add their streetwise to the mix for another 5 dmg for a destiny point spend Add in Martial Artist and coordination for another 5 dmg for 2 strain, and if you really want munchkin add doctor for pressure point to add medicine for 5 that bypasses soak now for the person that can punch for over 40 strain that bypases soak. Yes it takes a bit of xp, but you could do this for 600 xp and still have 24 dmg that bypasses soak.

Not Jedi survive just fine against Jedi and in reality most Player Characters who aren't Jedi tend to be stronger then players who are force sensitive, because of the xp tax on Force Sensitive characters.

Each player has initially the same stats with Force Sensitive taking a small hit on skills. How ever Non Force Sensitive have more xp to spend on talents and skills. Force Sensitive have to get Force Rating and Force powers which eats into the xp that non force sensitive characters can really take off ahead and develop broken combinations of talents.

I'm still confused on this using move will cause you to go to the darkside bull people keep trying to sell.

Move causes as much conflict as stabbing someone with a lightsaber or shooting them with a blaster. Which is none unless the player is running around randomly murdering people for no reason.

Also for the record Yoda was resisting Hurl when he was fighting Palpatine which as a force power is perfectly acceptable and extremely cinematic.

Ok my first question is what is the Non-Force Sensitive character? What do they do? What are they good at? Why are they even considering a face off with a Sith? What do they bring to the table to help the party succeed? What's their expertise?

Just to add , protect can help protect against large damage such as this , adversary and any ranged defensive talents also help, The main thing is that a nemesis should not be standing alone in this game, one NPC standing against a group isnt going to be doing much to be honest unless they have a massive soak.

If the nemesis knows that the person can move objects like this, then they set up in a sniper position, or in areas where there are know sil 3 items they can use. Or they set a trap.... etc you also want that person to like the fact and not be penalised for having bought into the move power (it sounds like they have one specialization and every upgrade for the move power. which btw is kind of munchkiny in itself), so if this means they make the roll and obliterate one of the targets , let them have that moment of awesome, but that target should have friends. It doesnt matter if the player is move monster or one punch man.

For the record Im playing a warden that started out with a morgukai staff (lightsaber level weapon) and chose to fight unarmed for RP reasons, in case you think I play munchkin characters myself. I prefer messing with the enemies movement and taking them alive.

The OP's issue isn't with NPCS being one shoted. Their concern amongst the group is a PC being taken out at the beginning of the first round with no chance to defend themselves.

I'll be honest my Non Force Sensitive AOR character either dropped the Jedi at extreme or long range with an Air Rifle or the Jedi hit him in the face with a lightsaber and nearly kills him.

More often then not he dropped the Jedi its not even close. Of course he had like zero close combat abilities and relied heavily on ridiculous stealth and 6 yellow +Blues up the whazoo to insta strain out force sensitive characters.

Cortosis darts tipped with with poison from an Air Rifle is not pleasant.