18 minutes ago, LordFajubi said:

...... they thought the general public is too slow to grasp politics, now politics is largely retarded. I wish they could have seen the future they ushered in.

Happy 4th!

Thanks for the correction and added info @LordFajubi .

They were correct on many points, certainly on the one that the general public is too slow. True too that politics are now largely retarded. I think the only point they miss-stepped on was not forseeing lawyers taking over politics after the legal profession morphed into something almost devoid of actual law (as far as true justice and morality/ethics are concerned). It's certainly a mess; but it's a mess that's still better than most countries I been in during my days on this spinning rock. ?

Happy 4th!!

59 minutes ago, Dr Zoidberg said:

That is one of the silliest things I've ever read. Now I understand the concept of "American Exceptionalism", but really... Get over yourselves.

30 minutes ago, Dr Zoidberg said:

49 minutes ago, haslo said:

Well, it's correct. Just like Star Wars was made possible in part by the Industrial Revolution in the UK, the Spartans holding back the Persians at Thermopylae, and the excesses of Louis XIV in Versailles, and of course by us Swiss inventing Fondue. Butterfly effect, yaay!

Also, happy 4th of July

I almost responded to you as if you were serious... Then my sarcasm/wit detector kicked in. Well played sir.

Obviously your detector was broken when you read my original post. My post was meant to be silly. True, there are too many people for whom American Exceptionalism is the reality. My satire is for them, even if it is lost on them.

3 hours ago, Darth Meanie said:

I watched Canadian Brass here in Chicago on July 1st at Millennium Park. Amazingly good and witty as well. I bought 4 of their CDs to je me souviens (si vous etes Quebequois).

Also, thank you for Bryan Adams, Jim Carrey, William Shatner, maple syrup, and a better form of bacon

Don't forget the Nanaimo bars! Oh, the Nanaimo bars!

~

With regard to constitutional questions, I believe it is correct to say that the United States is a democracy, specifically a democratic republic, while countries like Canada and the United Kingdom are parliamentary democracies (and constitutional monarchies), and ancient Athens was a direct democracy. All are forms of democracy, since the enfranchised populace directs the government through voting.

9 minutes ago, TheHumanHydra said:

Don't forget the Nanaimo bars! Oh, the Nanaimo bars!

~

With regard to constitutional questions, I believe it is correct to say that the United States is a democracy, specifically a democratic republic, while countries like Canada and the United Kingdom are parliamentary democracies (and constitutional monarchies), and ancient Athens was a direct democracy. All are forms of democracy, since the enfranchised populace directs the government through voting.

The general populous at a national level in no way in America votes on laws, Constitutional ammendments, acts of war, etc... We democractically elect officials and they democratically do these things but the general populous has no say in what happens. We can vote them out next term, at a legislative level only, and that forms the checks and balance system but we are very much under the yoke of congress unless a clear law is broken. That is not really a democracy but it does use democratic doctrine.

8 minutes ago, LordFajubi said:

The general populous at a national level in no way in America votes on laws, Constitutional ammendments, acts of war, etc... We democractically elect officials and they democratically do these things but the general populous has no say in what happens. We can vote them out next term, at a legislative level only, and that forms the checks and balance system but we are very much under the yoke of congress unless a clear law is broken. That is not really a democracy but it does use democratic doctrine.

With this said, would we be under something like a democratically elected monarchy?

1 minute ago, Flyingbrick said:

With this said, would we be under something like a democratically elected monarchy?

I don't know much about monarchies, perhaps an English brother or sister could help but it was my understanding that monarchs with a paliment are pretty much figure heads and parliment functions very much like our Congress. Again I am not sure on monarchies and we are getting far off x wing topic lol I just have a personal issue about America being depicted as a democracy, it really isn't and was never intended to be. Democracy as a national political regime died with the Greeks.

True enough. I do think that America was intended as a republic and is still this way. But in the current political scene that some would change this narrative. Yeah, this is getting way off base from the game we all are here to enjoy and discuss.

18 minutes ago, Flyingbrick said:

With this said, would we be under something like a democratically elected monarchy?

No, a monarchy usually involves heredity (especially via inheritance) in the selection of the head of state. While presidents may happen to be related, their eligibility isn't determined by this.

LordFajubi, while you may feel that the American system is lacking in the popular (in the political sense) qualities of democracy, I believe you are incorrect in the definition of the term. In your response to my post, you described a non-direct democracy. You seem to favour an Athenian direct democracy, but both are considered democracies since they use a voting system to determine the popular will.

2 minutes ago, TheHumanHydra said:

LordFajubi, while you may feel that the American system is lacking in the popular (in the political sense) qualities of democracy, I believe you are incorrect in the definition of the term. In your response to my post, you described a non-direct democracy. You seem to favour an Athenian direct democracy, but both are considered democracies.

I respectfully disagree but again way off topic. May we find each other in a coffee house sometime to continue our political debate. ?

True enough that in an monarchy, one would need heredity rights.But, here in America today all one would need is money and the right political bloodlines to be deemed royalty for what would be considered to run a country. Sorry all for the off X-wing topic.

1 hour ago, Flyingbrick said:

With this said, would we be under something like a democratically elected monarchy?

Oligarchy is the correct term, IMHO

.

1 hour ago, TheHumanHydra said:

Don't forget the Nanaimo bars!

What's this, then? Can I get these in Vancouver this fall?

26 minutes ago, Darth Meanie said:

What's this, then? Can I get these in Vancouver this fall?

Certainly, you can get them in grocery stores alongside other chilled desserts like cheesecakes. As a warning, you may divert all your X-Wing money into procuring additional Nanaimo bars after trying one.

(Coincidentally, I carry some of my ships around in a Nanaimo bar box.)

41 minutes ago, TheHumanHydra said:

(Coincidentally, I carry some of my ships around in a Nanaimo bar box.)

Sweet!

I love the British perspective

"How's independence going for you?" (Sick burn)

"It's going well, thank you."

"Pffsh yeah right!" (Sick burn)

-British roasters

There's a whole lot of misuse of "democracy" and "republic" in this thread, as if the two are in some way mutually exclusive. All republics are democracies, but not all democracies are republics. Republic:democracy::square:rectangle. It's also interesting that the word "federalism" hasn't been used yet.

The US is a constitutional federal republic.

Whoohoo...

Just want I want on the x-wing forum.. politics

3 hours ago, Sekac said:

I love the British perspective

"How's independence going for you?" (Sick burn)

...to be fair, we can be asked the same question right now, and the answer is "really, really, really badly".

Quote

I don't know much about monarchies, perhaps an English brother or sister could help but it was my understanding that monarchs with a paliment are pretty much figure heads and parliment functions very much like our Congress. Again I am not sure on monarchies and we are getting far off x wing topic lol I just have a personal issue about America being depicted as a democracy, it really isn't and was never intended to be. Democracy as a national political regime died with the Greeks.

Short version, yes, long version no.

• The British Government has two houses (much like US Senators and Representaties), but whilst the lower house is directly elected, the upper house is 'appointed'. Some by heredity, some for 'services to' peerages (business, science, law), hell, some by holding religious posts. The upper house doesn't initiate a law, and nor can it 'kill' a law, but it can force reviews and redrafting activities. The (current) idea is that the upper house is selected as a body of experts, who don't need to be re-elected and can say stuff which is really important but equally unpopular (like "what other government function are you short-changing to pay for this?"), meaning they can ask the important questions that a member of the commons, or a US Senator, can't ask in public without risking losing their seat at the next election, or that the public at large don't want to think about.
• The Prime Minister is the head of government (rather than head of state like the president) - whilst she has in practice much the same powers in terms of directing policy, she has less ability to control Civil Service appointments as the civil service (the equivalent of US "Department of" organisations) is a non-government entity and she is a sitting member of parliament. She can tell them what to do, and controls the cabinet ministers who manage them (who are also members of parliament), but has less say than the president has about who from the department actually turns up to do it.
• Because she holds her role as "person who has the confidence of the house of commons" (in theory, not so much at the moment!) she's not directly elected like the president is.
• The appointment process is one that the monarch is much more involved in; because whilst the list of nominations is recommended by the government, it's the Queen's choice who gets them.
• The Queen does have (theoretically) final signature and veto over laws, but you are correct does not, in practice, use it.

National democracy is something which is actually more possible again; modern technology theoretically allows referendum-esque activities to be carried out with comparative ease (quite a few Scandinavian governments are getting big on this), but in practice a republic where a smaller group of selected individuals manage things is important - however the wider public selects and directs them on an ongoing basis - because running a modern country is a full time job.

Sorry for the unnecessary waffle.

More importantly, Pew. Pew.

Also, Vote Gunboat.

Looking from international perspective... if this isn´t off topic, then what is?

Are we going to celebrate every X-Wing nation´s national day?

40 minutes ago, Pretty Green said:

Looking from international perspective... if this isn´t off topic, then what is?

Are we going to celebrate every X-Wing nation´s national day?

As long as it means we get to play more X-Wing I'm down with that.

11 hours ago, LordFajubi said:

Democracy as a national political regime died with the Greeks.

Nah. Switzerland is doing just fine with a mix between direct and representative democracy. We vote on about 10 constitutional initiatives and referendums per year on the national level, plus about as many on lower federalistic levels. And we elect representatives on a variety of levels about once per year, too.

19 hours ago, markcsoul said:

Good morning. In less than an hour, aircraft from here will join others from around the world. And you will be launching the largest aerial battle in this history of mankind.

Mankind -- that word should have new meaning for all of us today.

We can't be consumed by our petty differences anymore.

We will be united in our common interests.

Perhaps its fate that today is the 4th of July, and you will once again be fighting for our freedom, not from tyranny, oppression, or persecution -- but from annihilation.

We're fighting for our right to live, to exist.

And should we win the day, the 4th of July will no longer be known as an American holiday, but as the day when the world declared in one voice:

"We will not go quietly into the night!

We will not vanish without a fight!

We're going to live on!

We're going to survive!"

Today, we celebrate our Independence Day!

Expected this when I read the thread title. Not disappointed.

3 hours ago, william1134 said:

Whoohoo...

Just want I want on the x-wing forum.. politics

Technically, the Star Wars storylines are all about politics.

Just sayin'. . .