3 minutes ago, Lord Preyer said:Am going to try 4 Defenders, Jendon/Maarek and 2 Phantoms in my next game. How did your Defender/Phantom experiments go please?
I have not bought another Imp II squad pack yet. Been busy with SC tournaments and I finally got wave 6 yesterday.
1 minute ago, Undeadguy said:I have not bought another Imp II squad pack yet. Been busy with SC tournaments and I finally got wave 6 yesterday.
Good luck with your SC season then!
8 minutes ago, Lord Preyer said:Am going to try 4 Defenders, Jendon/Maarek and 2 Phantoms in my next game. How did your Defender/Phantom experiments go please?
Really nice list. But a bit dangerous with only one ISD and two Gozanti
I think, perhaps, this is more complex than a first glance reveals:
The Tie fighters have more hull vs squad attacks but on an effective hull basis, less vs. AA from ships (a Raider I will kill two ties faster than one Phantom, for example). Same for Mauler, Soontir, etc.
The Tie fighters are more able to be killed in one shot, which means your effective combat power may be lower than one thinks. 4 hull is unlikely to die in one attack to anything other than Wedge or Howl plus FC type dice.
The pseudo-Intel in the phantom has hard to quantify value.
Two points sometimes matters, squeezing into 134.
Overall, I think the comparison is also incomplete without adding the defender (exactly the price of two Ties), as the real question may be why would you use either of the stated options over one defender?
Just some thoughts. I don't claim to have a clear answer but I think 3-hull fighters have some clear drawbacks not adequately noted as of yet.
50 minutes ago, Reinholt said:I think 3-hull fighters have some clear drawbacks not adequately noted as of yet.
Die to a light breeze......
Having faced the Sloan phantom it is very swingy. One did 4 damage one turn the next nothing. That is both the plus and the draw back of the phantom.
1 hour ago, Reinholt said:I think, perhaps, this is more complex than a first glance reveals:
The Tie fighters have more hull vs squad attacks but on an effective hull basis, less vs. AA from ships (a Raider I will kill two ties faster than one Phantom, for example). Same for Mauler, Soontir, etc.
The Tie fighters are more able to be killed in one shot, which means your effective combat power may be lower than one thinks. 4 hull is unlikely to die in one attack to anything other than Wedge or Howl plus FC type dice.
The pseudo-Intel in the phantom has hard to quantify value.
Two points sometimes matters, squeezing into 134.
Overall, I think the comparison is also incomplete without adding the defender (exactly the price of two Ties), as the real question may be why would you use either of the stated options over one defender?
Just some thoughts. I don't claim to have a clear answer but I think 3-hull fighters have some clear drawbacks not adequately noted as of yet.
TIE's swarm is also something to account for. I'm finding that an overwhelmingly large amount of the time its leading to 2 rerolls (one swarm, one inevitable crit) for tie fighters that are likely also taking advantage of howl or fc or both. Little bastards are hitting hard.
7 minutes ago, Madaghmire said:TIE's swarm is also something to account for. I'm finding that an overwhelmingly large amount of the time its leading to 2 rerolls (one swarm, one inevitable crit) for tie fighters that are likely also taking advantage of howl or fc or both. Little bastards are hitting hard.
crit reroll only works against ships
swarm reroll only works against squadrons
5 minutes ago, Ginkapo said:crit reroll only works against ships
swarm reroll only works against squadrons
Roflmao none of us can read. Well thats two games of lessons we can toss.
In other news I am significantly less impressed.
Edited by MadaghmireI think it is interesting to compare why you would take a Tie-fighter or Tie-defender since they are easy to compare.
Tie-fighters require more activation which probably is its biggest drawback overall. One thing that often get lost in the discussion is that number of squadrons do matter in the position game. It is a pretty huge advantage to have more squadrons than the opponent. more or less in the same way it is with ships. It is also important for keeping important enemy squadrons engaged and hard to release with Intel. The more squadrons you have the more Intel the opponent need to free their squadrons. It also is great for deployment advantage as well which is VERY important and sometimes can win you games outright (more or less).
Tie-fighters will in general give you more offensive capacity per points invested, especially if you have Howlrunner in your squadron wing. The tie-fighter is simply a very good anti-squadron platform and able to cheaply tie up enemy squadron while your Tie-bombers attack enemy ships. I usually look at 11-12 squadrons when I create a Imperial carrier focused fleet, that is the sweet spot for me.
A build like say...
Lambda (always bring at least one of these, ALWAYS!!!), Dengar, Howlrunner, 3xTie-fighters, 1xTie-interceptor, Saber Squadron, 4xTie-Bombers (134p)
Lambda, Howlrunner, 5xTie-fighters, 2xTie-Phantoms, Captain Jonus, 2xTie-Bombers (133p)
Lambda, Dengar, Black Squadron, Soontir Fel, 4xTie-Interceptors, 3xTie-bombers (133p)
The Tie-defender is a very good squadron for activation efficiency and do fill an important role in many Wings. They are great for escorting smaller flanking ships and add both Anti-Squadron and bombing capabilities and are economical to activate for ships with a low activation command such as Raiders and Arquitens. Tie-phantoms are pretty similar to the defender in uses but functions and operate differently. The Tie-Phantom also get some good boost from Sloane, more so than the Defender in my opinion.
Edited by jorgen_cab
BCC Sloane Defenders...
4 hours ago, Ginkapo said:BCC Sloane Defenders...
Why?
16 hours ago, Tokra said:Really nice list. But a bit dangerous with only one ISD and two Gozanti
How did you guess?!
No, seriously: how did you know? This is the list I ran last night:
ISD2, Avenger, Chiraneu EH, ECM, GT, LS, Spinal, Sloane
Gozanti, Comms net
Gozanti, BCC
Maarek, Jendon, 4 Defenders, 2 Phantoms
I faced an MC80 Defiance super pickle with Ackbar, a TRC90, an MC30, 2 flotillas and Shara/Tycho.
Was an absolutely wonderful, nerve wracking game that I won well but could have easily lost badly.
Defender/BCC/Sloane defence token stripping with Phantom follow-ups (including the delicious spikey 0 damage one round, 3 the next) and then the Avenger shot to finish things off. Amazing fun.
4 hours ago, Undeadguy said:Why?
So much this @Ginkapo . I've run it three times now. Won big twice, lost big once.
Because you can go for the possibility of a double accuracy fishing trip (depending on if you get a crit either the first time you roll or as a result of the BCC) and there is NO bad result. Worst that happens is you 'just' do damage. Then when tokens are stripped (or just flipped because AVENGER) you switch BCC to just refills any accuracies.
26 minutes ago, Lord Preyer said:How did you guess?!
No, seriously: how did you know? This is the list I ran last night:
I made a prediction list for every player of their play styles, preferences, experince and success with each kind of meta list.
Additional there is a calculute and forecast tool that will show what points are left, and what is the best setup combination for the known parts and the preference for each player.
After this it was easy to find out what the list was.
Ok, for real:
You made the list in Aramda Warlord... And you made it public.
I was looking at some of the lists when you made the post, and coincidentally i watched your list. I just thought, that i saw these squadron setting somewhere. Thats all. And it was your list with this squadron setup.
55 minutes ago, Tokra said:I made a prediction list for every player of their play styles, preferences, experince and success with each kind of meta list.
Additional there is a calculute and forecast tool that will show what points are left, and what is the best setup combination for the known parts and the preference for each player.
After this it was easy to find out what the list was.
Ok, for real:
You made the list in Aramda Warlord... And you made it public.
I was looking at some of the lists when you made the post, and coincidentally i watched your list. I just thought, that i saw these squadron setting somewhere. Thats all. And it was your list with this squadron setup.
Don't lie @Tokra . Despite your futile and feeble efforts to throw me off the scent with a lot of loose talk about "Armada Warlords" and "public" settings we all know it is the former, not latter explanation that is true.
You did indeed build a model.
You did indeed assess player playstyles.
You did indeed employ various Psychohistorical calculations in your Prime Radiant probability predictions.
And now I know your scheme I shall be wise to your nefarious prophecies from hereon in!
Sure. But his sad devotion to that ancient religion hasn't allowed him to conjure up a world championship! Or given him clairvoyance enough to predict what fleet I'll be running this weeke....*gurglespluttergasp*