2 hours ago, ovinomanc3r said:

Explain, please. It seems you trusted him when he said he didn't blocked Caldias.

No, haven't trusted him since when I voted on him, I wanted to see how he would act with Caldias on the noose, and whether he would try to save his doomed friend or try to buy credit for himself

4 hours ago, BrobaFett said:

Smurf or Caldias. Man. We can't not address a call out like that.

Caldias has always acted like scum, which is super dumb for a scum to do.

Smurf has always been conservatively voting and participating but not really leading any charges which is fairly smart for a scum to do.

Both are newish players so could be entirely capable of playing very well or very poorly.

So do we bet on bad scumplay or good scumplay?

4 hours ago, BrobaFett said:

Sorry Visovics, I don't know what else to say. I certainly have nothing to defend Caldias with, or no reason to do so. He sure seems scum to me, but man Biggs threw me because that move seemed so scum, and ended up just being a critical mistake. My confidence is shaken a little after that honestly.

Those two particurlarly scream scum to me in the way he is saying almost to try to say "hey, I'm town" and getting distance from the suspect

Definitely just honest statements about the game state, and to be honest, as the non vote, I knew that scum would come at me to push the dayvote today.

I didn't try to save him, or buy cred.

I am a vanilla town, my vote is my weapon, and this game I have been right once, wrong once, and the other two times (one time lynching a friendly and one time lynching a scum) the rest of the town lynched while I was trying to get more information meaning I have a voting batting record of .500 (for any non americans, that is pretty good).

All I said yesterday was that I wanted to to hold off hammer to continue conversation so the SECOND agent might say something incriminating once we figured out whether Caldias was scum or not. I have nothing to hide. I figured Caldias for scum, and said as much emphatically, but I know I am not the only one for whom the scumtell was so obvious that the best place for him to hide became plain sight. If I wasn't the only town that had second thoughts, he wouldn't have lived as long as he did.

When I asked what people thought, I was trying to create discussion about whether we thought that Caldias was playing scum poorly or smurf was playing scum super duper well because I wanted to see who would defend who and suggest what, because once hammer dropped it would be useful. Because I am town, and I have a vested interest in finding the scum. To that end, I have something that is an important consideration for todays vote:

The #1 most interesting thing I find right now is that our last scum was a part of the hammer yesterday. That means I KNOW that Caldias got bussed. That is important to know, because it means that they are so confident in the trust they gain from that move they are willing to sacrifice their duelist for the win today, which means that our living scum thinks that they have enough cred to swing the day lynch. So I am starting by looking at the votes from yesterday, and if we find who is our busser we find our last scum:

@ovinomanc3r votes first. Ovino buries everything he is saying in inane rambling, but that is how he plays town, so it makes it tough to get a read. However, in this case, it is almost impossible to believe that scum would vote themselves with victory on the line. I think Ovino is verified town.

Smurf voted second, RIP. obvious town vote position, and verified town.

@Visovics voted third. He bought "100% town" cred with the hammer or buss on Gink. Would be a smart play for scum, but what is SUPER interesting is that let's say Visovics hammered gink to gain trust, and then puts caldias to 3 votes, putting him on the edge of hammer. It could be a scum feeling the temperature of the water around them and realizing that his buddy was a goner, and it would be better to get in as early as possible on the vote. He said he was waiting for me before casting his vote. My suspicion is he was hoping I would defend Caldia so he could agree with whatever logic i had and follow my vote on smurf so he could tie it up, hoping ninja sent hammer that way. Even if he didn't when smurf turned up town he would have an easy "but I just followed broba, lynch him" excuse for protecting caldias. Our agent IS either him or Cninj in my mind. That said visovics, I need your side of the story, and I hope it's super convincing.

Last is @CaribbeanNinja who brought the hammer down. This is buss territory as well. Probably the most questionable position to be in, as at this point the writing is on the wall and you aren't going to avoid the kill, so might as well end the conversation and gain a little cred to hopefully lynch the non voter rather than drag it out and risk more. Which is a solid plan, except that it gives me the most dangerous tool in Mafia, verified knowledge. Which means I am almost positive that I have it 50/50 because vote 1 is so unlikely. That said, running through everything else these last few turns, visovics has just read so much more scum than Cninj so until we get Cninj and Visovics with their cards on the table hopefully we get something that pushes clarity one way or the other.

So that is it, in my mind we are down to Visovics and Caribbean Ninja. One of you is scum and bussed your mate last night. Despite Cnjinj dropping the hammer, I think Visovics is the one that thinks he has the cred to push the dayvote in his favor. And again, I expected as a non-voter for scum to move on me early since that is pretty much their only play for todays day vote.

As of right now, my vote is on visovics. However, I still need to hear from Cninj and visovics through before I actually cast that vote because I don't want to vote without all the information and let the scum put a townie at 2 votes for free.

Boop. Beep. WHIR.

Interpretation:

It looks like Ovinomanc3r actually voted 2nd yesterday (after Smurf). I wish I could be even as certain as you Broba (2/3). I have my suspicions about each of you.

1 hour ago, CaribbeanNinja said:

Boop. Beep. WHIR.

Interpretation:

It looks like Ovinomanc3r actually voted 2nd yesterday (after Smurf). I wish I could be even as certain as you Broba (2/3). I have my suspicions about each of you.

And those are? This was less than i had hoped you would come in with. I was hoping you would just show up with a really well thought put post with some corraboration or refutation that could clear you as town and put us closer to the voting position.

This is go time, no use for anyone holding back now, more info we get out the harder it will be for scum to keep hidden.

12 minutes ago, BrobaFett said:

And those are? This was less than i had hoped you would come in with. I was hoping you would just show up with a really well thought put post with some corraboration or refutation that could clear you as town and put us closer to the voting position.

This is go time, no use for anyone holding back now, more info we get out the harder it will be for scum to keep hidden.

Boop.

Interpretation:

Not holding back at all just cannot focus on this currently. Unfortunately this will have to wait until the morning.

5 hours ago, BrobaFett said:

@Visovics voted third. He bought "100% town" cred with the hammer or buss on Gink. Would be a smart play for scum, but what is SUPER interesting is that let's say Visovics hammered gink to gain trust, and then puts caldias to 3 votes, putting him on the edge of hammer. It could be a scum feeling the temperature of the water around them and realizing that his buddy was a goner, and it would be better to get in as early as possible on the vote. He said he was waiting for me before casting his vote. My suspicion is he was hoping I would defend Caldia so he could agree with whatever logic i had and follow my vote on smurf so he could tie it up, hoping ninja sent hammer that way. Even if he didn't when smurf turned up town he would have an easy "but I just followed broba, lynch him" excuse for protecting caldias. Our agent IS either him or Cninj in my mind. That said visovics, I need your side of the story, and I hope it's super convincing.

I was waiting for you to cast my vote because:

1.You could come up with the play that you were a duelist and blocked Caldias, which would have told me you are both scum

2.You hadn't posted a thing in the day ( I know it's the time you were at work), would it be smart to put him at an L-1 before everyone had a said? At that point he is dead meat, so his partner would do only one thing, sacrifice his partner.

Also as I said, my suspicions on you since the last time I voted were still on, I was waiting to see how you would react to the situation, and putting him at L-1 as Cninja was on could not give me this reaction.

Also, I had suspicions on Caldias not having protected Smurf since the beginning of the day, and was the first to think of bulletproof before Smurf claimed. Interestingly, the person who also still had a suspicion on Caldias before things going south to him was Cninja, so I think that scum wouldn't sell off their partner so easily when they can win if they lynch right

6 hours ago, BrobaFett said:

visovics has just read so much more scum than Cninj

I'd very much like to know where and how I've been reading scum to you for last few rounds

39 minutes ago, Visovics said:

I'd very much like to know where and how I've been reading scum to you for last few rounds

I did a fairly good job of lining that out.

And again we have time to come to a solution. My point was to point out to the town that there are two extremely likely candidates. You can outline your suspicion too. Of course you wont agree with me wholly, but thats fine i dont expect you to.

50 minutes ago, BrobaFett said:

I did a fairly good job of lining that out.

And again we have time to come to a solution. My point was to point out to the town that there are two extremely likely candidates. You can outline your suspicion too. Of course you wont agree with me wholly, but thats fine i dont expect you to.

So the reasons I am an "extremely likely candidate" is because I hammered Gink, waited for your say before casting my vote and putting Caldias at L-1?

So here are my suspicions on you:

-Defended Gink and voted him, guess what, he was scum

-Objected against policy vote, which Caldias would be one of the targets and guess what, he was scum! This one could also be tryinf to give them a chance, but maybe was just an opportunity.

-Gink equally objected about policy voting as Caldias was in there

----- I know that so did I, might as well not kill the new players on the first day, so the 2 above can be ignored--------

-Ok, the computer isn't collaborating, so I can't quote, but page 13, Gink recurs to you to switch votes and tie. Why would he not call for those who hadn't voted? Why you specifically???

-TWICE when there are 2 people equi-suspicious you come with a "Hey which one shall we vote on?"

-20 minutes into D3 with a vote on Biggs, it ressembles me a lot the attempt to quickly get rid of JJ in Mos Erdru D3 performed by me and Tirion (although we did have an extra mistery vote from Mad which might have helped a lot)

I have to think a lot and I am not going to write to much today. BBQ reasons.

I have mainly two suspects and I am curious about CNinja's list.

My main suspects are Broba and Visovics.

CNinja could be but his d1 vote makes me think he is not. We know why Caldias voted Biggs. He was scum but he was alone during the day. And lost. CNinja has played enough games to now when he should lynch a mate I think.

As I said I have to think an reread the thread again.

However I want to point out that I still don't understand what Visovics did with Broba yesterday. If Broba said he blocked Caldias, he protected Caldias and he was scum. And if he said he didn't blocked Caldias, he was selling his mate and he was scum. On the other side if he was townie he only could say he didn't block so the escape way for the possible scum was obvious and you get nothing. That only could be proved by a tracker/watcher (what we don't have) or a role-cop who would know if he could block or not.

In the role-cop case Broba could still lying suspecting he was investigated but his actual vanilla claim would have trapped him.

Broba claimed vanilla and Visovics didn't point out it what makes me think he is not role cop and he didn't say he was. And Broba claiming vanilla makes me think that as scum he never get the possibility of Visovics being role cop and as townie he is just being honest.

Not being role cop I am worry about how Visovics can be so sure from a so poor plan.

As I said I need to think.

I was already sure of Caldias being scum, I suspected of Broba being his partner if there was a second one. So I wanted to see what Broba would do. As I see, he had a similar reaction from when Gink was on the noose.

BEEP. BOOP. Beep.

Interpretation:

I’m still re-reading everything but here are my current thoughts:

Broba - Wishy washy about Gink during the first day. Voted on and stayed on Biggs early and the entire time. Did not make a vote on Caldias at all.

Ovinomanc3er - I'd say he's been on extra ramble this game. He's been on my suspect list for a while, but did seem to feel more town the last day. However I wouldn't say he's verified town.

Visovics - Gains the golden status by hammering Gink. But after that on the wrong side of the Truthiness and Biggs votes. Pulls off of Caldias to hammer Biggs.

1 hour ago, CaribbeanNinja said:

BEEP. BOOP. Beep.

Interpretation:

I’m still re-reading everything but here are my current thoughts:

Broba - Wishy washy about Gink during the first day. Voted on and stayed on Biggs early and the entire time. Did not make a vote on Caldias at all.

Ovinomanc3er - I'd say he's been on extra ramble this game. He's been on my suspect list for a while, but did seem to feel more town the last day. However I wouldn't say he's verified town.

Visovics - Gains the golden status by hammering Gink. But after that on the wrong side of the Truthiness and Biggs votes. Pulls off of Caldias to hammer Biggs.

Any further thoughts?

25 minutes ago, Visovics said:

Any further thoughts?

Beep.

Interpretation:

After re-reading I have some. I think it is easier to separate them though.

Just now, CaribbeanNinja said:

Beep.

Interpretation:

After re-reading I have some. I think it is easier to separate them though.

Eager to read them

On 7/11/2017 at 3:10 PM, BrobaFett said:

@Caldias if you have a role with one vote to hammer now would be the time to go ahead and make it known. At this point anything in your defense you have should be public knowledge, otherwise the voting record looks like it's going to be damning.

On 7/11/2017 at 3:14 PM, Caldias said:

I suppose that's true. No sense in hiding it now. I am a duelist, and I have tried to use my ability to protect Biggs once he said he was a police officer. I voted for him thinking I could use the protect ability to protect him from being lynched, having no idea that lynching is unprotectable. But then, Biggs wasn't a police officer after all. After that, I was worried Mad might kill Ovinomanc3r, so I protected him last night. I'm so sorry I've been screwing it all up. I suck so much, and have been trying my best but hoo boy was it not very good.

Beep. BOOP.

Interpretation:

For Broba:

The above quote may just be a real coincidence, but this led to Caldias' claim that ended up saving him. That is some perfect timing. My other note for Broba is (and this is more gut) that his post on this Day 5 was really long but if you dissect it it really doesn't say much. It is all really about the vote on Caldias, which he stayed out of and got a scum. Is this a deflection?

On 7/12/2017 at 7:35 AM, ovinomanc3r said:

I would like to hear from Biggs.

Also I think Caldias is probably saying the true but I cannot imagine another way to proof that but lynching him.

On 7/12/2017 at 10:09 AM, ovinomanc3r said:

If Caldias says the true after lynching someone else he will have a 1/5 of blocking the killer and if he fail he still has a chance of saving the target. And he will probably die anyway.

Not lynching him we could check two of the four voters.

If someone dies we could discuss with two less suspects if the claim is true or not.

Not a great plan but the best I could think.

## vote Biggs

BEEP.

Interpretation:

This and the questioning of Smurfwedge (to possibly pull doubt away from Caldias) the last Day is what I see as suspicious for Ovinomanc3r. This "plan" against Biggs ends up being a bad decision.

2 minutes ago, CaribbeanNinja said:

BEEP.

Interpretation:

This and the questioning of Smurfwedge (to possibly pull doubt away from Caldias) the last Day is what I see as suspicious for Ovinomanc3r. This "plan" against Biggs ends up being a bad decision.

He said the true it seems. He lied about the reasons, that's all.

And my plan ended up being a good decision. It forced the scum to skip the kill protecting his victim. I am sure about it, otherwise they would have known why smurf survived and Caldias wouldn't have claimed protect him.

That is one of the reasons I suspect about Visovics. He changed his vote based on my plan. Maybe he saw they could perform their trick. But just a thought.

On 7/10/2017 at 1:20 PM, Visovics said:

Does everybody else see a pattern on those posts? Biggs is almost undoubtedly town, so constant appraisal would most likely make you look good, but for me screams scum trying to hide behind town. Once again, may just be because you are new and just isn't sure about the game and is trying to learn by following the player you are most sure of being town, and the beginner can work to justify virtually any of your posts that indicate scummy behaviour

so from my suspicion

##vote Caldias

On 7/12/2017 at 10:22 AM, Visovics said:

and we're on a tie...

I agree with Ovi's point there, we have better chances this way

##unvote Caldias

##vote BiggsIRL

@Onidsen this is hammer I believe

Beep. Boop. BEEP.

Interpretation:

For Visovics:

This was the beginning of the loss of gold shine. Was the plan to hammer Caldias and cement his gold plating? But then opportunity arose and he got greedy and hammered Biggs?

2 minutes ago, CaribbeanNinja said:

Beep. Boop. BEEP.

Interpretation:

For Visovics:

This was the beginning of the loss of gold shine. Was the plan to hammer Caldias and cement his gold plating? But then opportunity arose and he got greedy and hammered Biggs?

Biggs was looking a lot like town, until the whole Truth situation that looked like a setup, although he still wasn't as much of a suspect for me. But when we ended up again in a tie situation with not so long left, I took the risk of going on Biggs and hoping Ovi's plan would be of use, the one thing I hadn't realised is that you hadn't voted, so that was definitely a mistake of my part

Okay, we need something serious here

##vote BrobaFett

You are my prime suspect. Not only you had suspicious behaviour, Ovi and Cninja feel town to me, so no other option unless one of them slips up here

@ovinomanc3r what was your secret claim all about? I still can't understand it, and it's the last day, so not really a risk in saying here

2 hours ago, Visovics said:

@ovinomanc3r what was your secret claim all about? I still can't understand it, and it's the last day, so not really a risk in saying here

I fake claimed cop trying to get me killed at night instead of some role. I really think Biggs read my claim and fake claim to protect me.

Caldias read it too. He pointed to my claim line. Exactly what I tried when I told him that Biggs was not cop. He proved he read it and he proved he blocked me purposely.

Actually I thought that you were role cop and knew it.

Ok so cop is your fake claim. Let's get real claims, visovics, cninj, ovino, let's top beating around the bush and get your information out. Any hidden information at this point is helping scum only, so town needs to start talking truth so we can lynch the liar. My truth is out there, and I have my expected vote for it, because scum wants a lynch without having to say much that could expose them.

I am no cop, where did you get that from Ovi? I'm a vanilla