9 minutes ago, SkyJedi said:

I get you like exploiting autofire, but I don't think that triggering it multiple times every single turn is how it was intended. I'm not trying to tell you how to play, to each is own. I'm just a suggestion to people who might want something more than spray and pray encounters

1 minute ago, SkyJedi said:

Not upset, just discussing an idea. Have a good day ?

Then why the snarky comment? If you're gonna get butt hurt, you shouldn't have posted your idea.

11 minutes ago, 2P51 said:

Then why the snarky comment? If you're gonna get butt hurt, you shouldn't have posted your idea.

...cause I'm snarky? Thought you were out? Welcome back!

See! Snarky!

38 minutes ago, SkyJedi said:

Not exactly. If you think about it narratively your character aims and fires every time autofire is triggered. Each shot takes some amount of time. That leaves him exposed for long periods of time every shot. Every shot should have a chance of missing. Every shot should have a chance of something going wrong with the weapon.

The trade off is you can do massive damage

33 minutes ago, SkyJedi said:

Not really what I was trying to say, I said that the risk for shooting once was the same risk as shooting 10 times. I feel the risk should scale with the amount of times you trigger autofire

The trade off here is for being able to cut through the potential Threat and generate enough Advantage to actually pull off the extra hits For example, you would somehow need to generate 18 Advantage to score 10 hits. That is where the narrative considerations come in.

24 minutes ago, awayputurwpn said:

The trade off here is for being able to cut through the potential Threat and generate enough Advantage to actually pull off the extra hits For example, you would somehow need to generate 18 Advantage to score 10 hits. That is where the narrative considerations come in.

Alright I think I see where your coming from. If Auto fire is used for the 1-2 extra shots the RAW are great. It introduces extra risk for that extra shot or two.

The problem comes in when characters start making jury-rigged/advgen builds when you can start triggering it higher amount of times every turn with a relative minor bumb in risk.

Some people have the brawn limit and some have the ascending adv trigger to stem this.

My idea was just a thought to have it scale where you could still make that 5 shot roll but it would be a lot harder than a 2 shot roll

I gather you were never in the military and ever fired an automatic weapon before.

2 minutes ago, Tramp Graphics said:

I gather you were never in the military and ever fired an automatic weapon before.

No. What happens to the guy who stands up and tries to unload on multiple people?

Nothing. It's just harder to aim, unless it's mounted on a tripod.

11 minutes ago, Tramp Graphics said:

Nothing. It's just harder to aim, unless it's mounted on a tripod.

Have you seen Scarface?

On 7/3/2017 at 4:38 PM, FuriousGreg said:

The way we do it is Mods and Jury Rigging etc. that lower the Activation cost only affect the first instance of Auto-Fire after that the we use the unmodified number of Advantages to activate. It's simple and doesn't nerf Auto-Fire but keeps it from getting out of hand.
We are also pretty strict on calling shots prior to rolling so no "I shoot him till he's dead and move on" now it's I shoot A once then B once etc. with any additional activation not specified gets lost.

This is what we do and it's worked out great.

On 7/3/2017 at 4:38 PM, FuriousGreg said:

Looks like the multi-post bug finally caught up with Vorzakk.

Just now, SkyJedi said:

Have you seen Scarface?

Scar face is a movie. I've actually fired an M60 machine gun in the US Army.

1 minute ago, Tramp Graphics said:

Scar face is a movie. I've actually fired an M60 machine gun in the US Army.

Cool, but this is a game.

2 minutes ago, SkyJedi said:

Cool, but this is a game.

Then I guess I'm an expert because I'm well practiced in using Auto-fire in game.

Just now, HappyDaze said:

Then I guess I'm an expert because I'm well practiced in using Auto-fire in game.

Ok.....

43 minutes ago, SkyJedi said:

Cool, but this is a game.

Yes, but even in most game systems, firing on full auto isn't that hard to do nor risky.

21 minutes ago, Tramp Graphics said:

Yes, but even in most game systems, firing on full auto isn't that hard to do nor risky.

We're down a weird rabbit hole.

My point was I think RAW auto-fire can be exploited to game breaking levels. I suggested an idea to fix that. There are other ideas out there as well. Play the game how ever you want.

Until you have actually used the rules, that's really not something that you can say. Remember, these rules have been extensivley play-tested. And if you think these autofire rules are "broken", you'd hate the autofire rules for Cyberpunk 2020.

1 minute ago, Tramp Graphics said:

Until you have actually used the rules, that's really not something that you can say. Remember, these rules have been extensivley play-tested. And if you think these autofire rules are "broken", you'd hate the autofire rules for Cyberpunk 2020.

Not sure your point. I have played. Been ganked by Auto fire and ganked with Auto fire.

Why I think autofire is busted:

A character can dish out 20+ damage every turn with a base rifle and over 40+ damage with a few tweaks with only 3 adv. Optimize a little more and you can easily get to Over 100+

The 1 - 2 extra hits makes sense, but it doesn't scale above that.

However, that is exactly how autofire is. Not just in this game, but in every game out there and in reality. It is very accurate.

Just now, Tramp Graphics said:

However, that is exactly how autofire is. Not just in this game, but in every game out there and in reality. It is very accurate.

Usually there is a massive damage/hit when you compare autorifles to burst rifles

Like halo/cod/destiny/borderlands/blah blah blah

9 minutes ago, SkyJedi said:

Usually there is a massive damage/hit when you compare autorifles to burst rifles

Like halo/cod/destiny/borderlands/blah blah blah

Nope. The whole point of autofire. Auto fire has two primary functions. The first is hitting as many targets down range as quickly as possible. The second is providing covering fire to force the enemy to keep their heads down and unable to counter attack. Both require spraying a lot of fire down range.

Ok

5 hours ago, Tramp Graphics said:

However, that is exactly how autofire is. Not just in this game, but in every game out there and in reality. It is very accurate.

I limit Auto-fire to one hit per target per attack because all attacks already represent multiple shots/swings at a target. This way Auto-fire becomes the ranged equivalent of Sarlaac Sweep.

17 hours ago, SkyJedi said:

Not exactly. If you think about it narratively your character aims and fires every time autofire is triggered. Each shot takes some amount of time. That leaves him exposed for long periods of time every shot. Every shot should have a chance of missing. Every shot should have a chance of something going wrong with the weapon.

The trade off is you can do massive damage

Hey Skyjedi, I realise this thread's a little tense but I didn't spot anyone addressing this and wanted to chime in as I noticed the way you talk about specific shots.

Autofire is naturally meant to provide an approximation for full-automatic weapons and I can understand your view that you feel each additional shot should incur some form of additional risk every time, although I don't feel it's warrented from a narrative stand point. (Mechanical satisfaction may be another matter for you. I also understand that some people just love house-ruling stuff and tweaking their game.)

You might already know this but I'm not certain from your comments and I apologise if this is teaching you to suck eggs. Hopefully I might save you some effort: There is not set number of shots fired or time taken for any action or maneuver in this game. It is not the case that an attack with a pistol = 1 shot and an attack with autofire tirggered twice = 3 shots.

In reality each attack is supposed to represent a full exchange of fire or blows. That pistol may be firing half a dozen times or more (or less) in a single attack and it's down to you and the players to narrate this in the context of the situation and the results of the rolls. For example, you might have a miss with advantage and declare that the player fires a barrage of shots, forcing the opponent to keep their heads down, adding a setback to their next check. Heck, you might incur Threat (and there's more chance of that with increased difficulty, of course) and so narrate nagative effects of return fire.

A successful hit also doesn't indictate a specific single shot or blow but simply that the attacker has managed to cause some level of superficial damage or fatigue to their opponent in order to increase their wounds. Personally, I tend to stear clear of direct hits unless it's a critical hit or fatal shot, as Wounds are minor wear & tear, with critical hits being where the real damage is done.

How this relates to Autofire is that you need not consider an Autofire activation, narratively speaking, be exposing the player for any specific length of time - just as you need not consider any attack to take a specific length of time. The purpose of the Autofire rule is to approximate the effects of the volume of fire from such a weapon and it could just as easily take less time (perhaps a handful of lucky shots) than a single pistol attack (perhaps a prolonged exchange of fire). It's down to the results of the dice and your interpretation to indicate context such as being exposed with shooting

Is this any use?

11 hours ago, Tramp Graphics said:

However, that is exactly how autofire is. Not just in this game, but in every game out there and in reality. It is very accurate.

This has to be the most absurdly obtuse and stubborn I've seen you act so far. Congrats! Have you played "every game out there" to confirm your claims? Because your claims uh, aren't true in the slightest.

And using real life as a point of comparison for a magical space fantasy setting with physics defying laser guns is a bit ridiculous.