Just now, Warlord Zepnick said:

A VSD traveling at speed 2 can utilize this upgrade to attack a flotilla traveling at speed 1. Just look at the plain language at the card lol.

No it can't.

The Speed of the Victory is 2.

The Speed of the Flotilla is 1.

2 is Greater than 1.

Ergo, you cannot use the card.

The only keyword that is Referenced is Speed , and Speed is what is shown on the speed Dial.

You're really reaching here, Mate, to try to prove a point... There is absolutely no backup - even in the English language - to show otherwise.

2 minutes ago, Drasnighta said:

No it can't.

The Speed of the Victory is 2.

The Speed of the Flotilla is 1.

2 is Greater than 1.

Ergo, you cannot use the card.

The only keyword that is Referenced is Speed , and Speed is what is shown on the speed Dial.

You're really reaching here, Mate, to try to prove a point... There is absolutely no backup - even in the English language - to show otherwise.

No, you're simply wrong.

Speed is what is also shown on the speed chart.

1 minute ago, Warlord Zepnick said:

A VSD traveling at speed 2 can utilize this upgrade to attack a flotilla traveling at speed 1. Just look at the plain language at the card lol.

I doubt that is the meaning of the card.

30 minutes ago, TallGiraffe said:

Double arc shots

Lining up the double arc with the Arquitens against a small ship going speed 3 or 4 will be pretty hard.

Just now, Warlord Zepnick said:

No, you're simply wrong.

Take it to the rules forum gentlemen. I've reserved 15 pages for you next to the bar.

My vote is team 'current speed'.

Speed Purple is the new Orange Bay!

12 minutes ago, Drasnighta said:

No it can't.

The Speed of the Victory is 2.

The Speed of the Flotilla is 1.

2 is Greater than 1.

Ergo, you cannot use the card.

The only keyword that is Referenced is Speed , and Speed is what is shown on the speed Dial.

You're really reaching here, Mate, to try to prove a point... There is absolutely no backup - even in the English language - to show otherwise.

With means to be in possession of .

With is static .

With is not the same thing as at . The speed which a ship can be at differs at times.

With is a static state . In your example, the flotilla is at speed 1. The card does not mention the word, at . The flotilla is a ship with or in possession of a higher speed than the VSD.

3 > 2

Ergo, you can use the card this way.

19 minutes ago, Warlord Zepnick said:

No, you're simply wrong.

Speed is what is also shown on the speed chart.

Incorrect.

Read the Rules Reference, pg 11. You'll note that "Speed" is defined as:

A ship’s speed determines how far it must move each activation; the ship’s current speed is tracked on its speed dial

...while the "Speed Chart" is defined as:

Each ship has a speed chart on its ship card which indicates how far each joint can be clicked away from the center (straight) position. Each column on the chart corresponds to a specific speed as indicated by a number at the bottom of that column.

It's very clear that the word 'speed', on its own in the game (as here), always refers to the ship's current speed and nothing else .

15 minutes ago, Warlord Zepnick said:

No, you're simply wrong.

Speed is what is also shown on the speed chart.

Potential /= actual. The speed chart is merely a reference for potential, not an indication of actual. The speed dial - which is the reference point for all speed related matters like spending Nav commands/tokens, Phylons, Konstantine, etc - is the indication of actual. It would make no sense to reference potential when no other mechanic worded similarly does so, especially when the rules reference the dial as the primary speed indicator.

5 minutes ago, NakedDex said:

Potential /= actual. The speed chart is merely a reference for potential, not an indication of actual. The speed dial - which is the reference point for all speed related matters like spending Nav commands/tokens, Phylons, Konstantine, etc - is the indication of actual. It would make no sense to reference potential when no other mechanic worded similarly does so, especially when the rules reference the dial as the primary speed indicator.

I see what you're saying.

But a flotilla is still a ship "with" speed 3, and isn't always "at" speed 3.

This is my issue with the way the card is written.

4 minutes ago, Warlord Zepnick said:

I see what you're saying.

But a flotilla is still a ship "with" speed 3, and isn't always "at" speed 3.

This is my issue with the way the card is written.

The term you are looking for (in the rules) is maximum speed ,.

That's how its classified. The maximum speed of a flotilla is 3.

The Card does not refer to maximum speed, it refers to speed, which has been defined as the sub-statement term " current speed".

Speed = Current Speed

Current Speed = Speed Shown on Dial.

" While attacking a ship with a higher speed than yours, you may add 1 blue die to your attack pool."

It specifically says "with a higher speed", not "with a higher potential speed" or "with a higher speed on it's speed chart", which very directly points to the standard speed reference for the game: the dial. There isn't much ambiguity around this, honestly.

Edit: Ninja'd by the "maximum speed" explanation from Dras.

2 hours ago, geek19 said:

Angle them differently? Protect your flanks with a flotilla like everyone else does? Salvation and Yavaris are still good and have been for a while, I don't know what to tell you.

Anyone who has faced a gladiator with APM's knows what is to see your yavaris die even taking shots to the front angle. Its a terribly designed ship. It has been since forever I dont understand your surprise honestly. The old Rhymer used to kill these in a single alpha strike. When you are atacking its flank it has the same survivability as the Raider and less than a Corvette.

Just now, NakedDex said:

" While attacking a ship with a higher speed than yours, you may add 1 blue die to your attack pool."

It specifically says "with a higher speed", not "with a higher potential speed" or "with a higher speed on it's speed chart", which very directly points to the standard speed reference for the game: the dial. There isn't much ambiguity around this, honestly.

It also doesn't say, while attacking a ship "at a higher speed than your's."

Hence, the card could have been written better.

Why is there always someone to believe in a different wording?...

I was wondering if someone was going to decide to take a stand on printed speed vs. dial speed. Guess it didn't take long.

7 minutes ago, Warlord Zepnick said:

It also doesn't say, while attacking a ship "at a higher speed than your's."

Hence, the card could have been written better.

I disagree. I actually ran it by my better half for clarity, out of curiosity. She doesn't play, but has been around the game enough to understand the basics and the nuances of the language. She's also a professional proof-reader and editor for scientific journals and documents, so I tend to trust her opinion on anything with text involved above even my own.

"The card is written in the present tense, so I would ignore the potential speed and only go on the current speed" - Mrs NakedDex

(I typo'd "at", that should have been "with" but the argument is the same, I just retyped it from memory instead of reference).

Quasar coming with two copies of the two best cards:

brofist@FFG

1 minute ago, NakedDex said:

"The card is written in the present tense, so I would ignore the potential speed and only go on the current speed" - Mrs NakedDex

Not sure I see anything water tight about that logic. Add the word "top" and its still prsent tense.

That said, she is still right. Its current speed. Not one of the unspecified speeds in the table of multiple possible speeds.

Well if this is legitimately a turbolaser that is a weird thing to put on a quasar

She was saying the dial is always the present reference, where the chart is a future reference (changing up or down a speed, max speed). I was just checking with her if there was a way it could have been worded differently to convey the same message and she found no problem with it. It was less about checking the logic and more the language.

The logic is laid out pretty cleanly in the rules regarding "speed" and "maximum speed". In particular, this line: "A ship’s speed is constant until the ship resolves a <nav> command or uses an upgrade card effect to change speed."

Is this card confirmed? Cuz that's a really sketchy picture.

Otherwise, my dual Vic II fleet is coming back!

Vic II
Chart Officer
Gunnery Team
Disposable Capacitors
Quad Battery Turrets
Leading Shots

Banking Nav tokens means I can always be slower than my opponent, and toss up to 8 dice at long range with CF. I'm very excited for this.

1 minute ago, Undeadguy said:

Is this card confirmed? Cuz that's a really sketchy picture.

Otherwise, my dual Vic II fleet is coming back!

Vic II
Chart Officer
Gunnery Team
Disposable Capacitors
Quad Battery Turrets
Leading Shots

Banking Nav tokens means I can always be slower than my opponent, and toss up to 8 dice at long range with CF. I'm very excited for this.

At least Shooting is before Maneuver, so you'll have to still be planning to be slowing down the turn before ... Its not straight cut/dry

So lots of long range re-rollables on Vic with GT and disposables. I like it.