As ever the search function isn't working. I'm curious as to how people have found the edition so far. I'm sceptical about all the clutter involved and the hefty price tag but I's like to hear what people have actually found (with reasons, no glowing mush or utter slating without reasoned argument please). Thanks.

Here's a balanced (although positive) review:

http://www.rpg.net/reviews/archive/14/14664.phtml

Here's my full (lengthy) review.

I'd also look through the "Emperor's Decree" section. That was the pre-release demo adventure, and in that section many people posted reviews and pictures of some of their sessions.

Love the system, but expected more cards, and less rules questions for the price.

Also expected harsher criticals and casting mishaps, but that's another matter.

It's still, at the moment, my favorite RPG, but I wish it was more of a complete package.

My personal opinion is that the system is reasonable, and works OK. I'm not convinced on the action cards being balanced, and there are some elements of it I dislike (progress tracker, party tension meter). It's also not as comprehensive as the last edition, though that complaint is partially going to fade away with more expansions coming out. However, with only 30 careers in the base set (compare to 2nd edition...), my feeling is that this game is not good for a long running campaign just out of the core set.

Anyway, if you want more of my opinion see here

Thanks' all, keep 'em coming.

When they say the boxed set works best with 3 players, they're not kidding.

You really do need two boxed sets for groups larger than 3.

Also, there are dice shortages that keep your combats dragging. Once you've got enough dice, the system is great.

jh

I need to play it more to give a better opinion. The organization of it STINKS in a major way. Very difficult for new players to build their new characters and figure out all the talents and such, as you have to literally hunt through a pack of cards...much easier to look at sheets of paper or look through a book then thumbing through cards to figure out skills and such.

Other than that, in many ways it has similarities to the older editions, with stats being more single digits instead of percentiles (if you want to adapt it to percentiles of the old system, all you need to do is add a 0 digit afterwards). It seems a little more on the heroic side then the lower end side with the starting characters, but it seemed to have enough dice for a small group at least. What I have played with it had no difficulties having enough dice, and seemed flexible enough for a wide range of social interactions (and yes, I tried to push the limits, probably to the GM's frustrations at times).

Despite the unorganized nature of the cards, abilities work in a similar fashion to those of old, though of course modified to work with the new dice mechanics. It didn't take me by storm, but it's not bad either. It's similar enough to the older editions (IN MY OPINION) that I probably won't buy the new set, but I also have no problem with playing it with anyone who has the new edition either, and I understand that there are those that probably will see enough differences between the systems that the new system will appeal to them more.

The new system is more of a visual appeal in some ways, and less mathy (is that really a word...hopefully you understand what I'm saying). The rolls are more based upon the feel of the situation rather than some mathematical set number, and because it's based off of a smaller range, what math there is, is a lot simpler then that of percentages or anything in the older editions. If you like artwork there is a LOT of it in the box (the cards for starters seem to have a LOT of art with them).

One thing that wasn't clear when it was first came out was how much writing was required, or whether character sheets would even be used. We USED character sheets, and they were quite important to handling your character...just for the record. That was something that I didn't expect, but was nice.

I'd have preferred a lot of the information that they provide on cards to have been in a book instead, and I just write down the information, but I also understand the ease of use for many in using the cards in the gameplay itself. So, I suppose it's a catch 22 in some ways, unless they included both, a list in the book AND cards, which may have pushed up the cost more.

Box looked sturdy, not my game, but from what I saw, it seemed nice enough. Used to be a LOT of RPG's came in boxed sets.

Game system is pretty flexible, so that's a plus.

I guess that sums up my views for now.

Emirikol said:

We have 5 players with core+toolkit and it doesn't cause us any issues except for a bit of dice sharing, but even that isn't too bad.

I also think the way the info is on the cards and not in books, contrary to some other opinions, is a massive plus.

The entirety of the toolkit has melded seemlessly into the card decks of the core set. If that info was in a book, that simply wouldn't be possible to achieve and would result in continously referring to various books slowing down play. I've seen that exact thing happen in our DH campaign, and it sucks.

You also only have a few of the cards that are directly relevant to you PC, so all the info is found very quickly, rather than trying to find page xx, that contains the info for your talent Y...

We solved the "sorting through cards" problem by putting them in album pages (including 4x5" negative slots for the careers).

We've ditched condition cards entirely and I just give the players a sheet of effects.

The lack of dice has been a complete bog for game play with our group of 6..but I'm impatient that way and tend to run scenarios fast. When I'm slowed down by lack of dice, it gets annoying. The middle of the game table looks more like an arena of dice.

jh

Emirikol said:

Yep, I have a copy of your condition sheets; very useful, cheers!

I use that as a quick reminder what conditions i might want to inflict the characters with.

I think lack of dice for larger groups is the main issue the game has, because its the one thing that is obviously so noticable in comparison to other games. I don't really feel the dice packs help sufficiently with that either because one of them isn't really enough for a player to comfortably own their own set without sharing, not without purchasing 2 or 3 packs, which is cost prohibitive for most players, I would have thought.

Here goes...

• I don't think anyone mentioned that, in contrast to the older editions, there's a lot more elf-love, especially once you have the first expansion (Adventurer's Toolkit). Halflings are dropped for release at a later date... though I thought they were promised in the aforementioned expansion.
• Haven't actually played the game, but it seems very playable. While I agree with Grey Lord that it takes a while for new players to thumb through the cards and figure out what they want, it also seems like having it all out on the table would make gameplay quick and easy. I like that a lot, especially the way my group likes to play games (lots of suspense, investigation, & RP... then quick, but fun combat).
• If you're familiar with RP's in general and Descent, this should be an easy one to learn, except that...
• ... the organization does, in fact, STINK. I also agree with Phobiandarkmoon in that the small amount of careers is a bit of a let down to fans of previous editions. I have old PC's that I really couldn't fit into the currently available careers.
• The box is sturdy, the cards seem so as well, so I don't think the price is unreasonable. I may change my opinion on that once all my friends have thumbed through one or more of the books/cards.
• If you wanted a WFRP that was a little more high powered, you may well love it. If you enjoyed punishing your players in previous editions, you might not love it. Frequent and questionable use of misfortune dice could change that. ;-) Seriously though, you can run more styles of game with this, I think.
• To play it, I think you really do have to buy another dice set. So that could be a drawback if you don't like the price tag to start.

One of the key things for me about the new edition is the thought that has gone into the graphic design. And I'm not talking about pretty pictures. This game had a team of graphic designers experienced in communicating visually through the medium of board and card games. Think about that. When was the last time an RPG had a TEAM of graphic designers?

FFG have been able to give the game a strong visual language and backed it up with consistent signage and colour coding. Combine that with the physical aspects of the game, plugging sockets, handling cards and tokens, tracking meters etc and WFRP supports learning and playing through multiple intelligences in a way many former RPGs don't take into account. In fact I'd wager it widens the potential gamer demographic considerably. The paraphanalia also increases retention of the rules and game play as there are a wide range of visual reinforcement of terms and concepts.

This game is gonna appeal to visual and kinesthetic intelligences in a way few RPGs have in the past. The dice pool may even work for rythmic intelligences.

Gamers of a linguistic intelligences inclination might not see the appeal of WFRP as traditional RPGs really are the domain of the linguistic intelligences.
Its pretty funny actually, every time someone posts their opinion of the new WFRP you can pretty much read what kind if learning style they have from their reaction. According to multiple intelligences theory, linguistic learners skills tend to include humour, analizing language and convincing others of their point of view. So expect to read some witty and eloquent criticisms of the game .

*I don't really know much about multiple intelligences, it just seemed a fitting description of what 'm trying to get across.

Daedalum said:

Visual-spatial intelligence I can see, but kinesthetic intelligence is "body smarts" (e.g. such as an athlete would have) and rhythmic intelligence is "musical aptitude". So I think those would be a bit of a stretch.

I'm a hands on kind of person. Where do I fit into all this?

jh

Emirikol said:

You'd be kinesthetic. It's not just athletic skill; it also encompasses those who learn best by using manipulatives (such as cards, miniatures, stance trackers, etc.).

I agree about the multiple intelligences thing, although I'd say this version is great for linguistic learners, less great for those inclined towards math. (In many MI studies, those are often lumped together as 'traditional reading & writing,' but in practice, many educators end up separating the two because students tend to be better at one or the other.) A lot of the storytelling still hinges on picking up on subtle verbal cues in room/area/character description, especially since the system has pushed away from drawing maps and using miniatures (although you can, of course, do those things if you see fit.)

A lot of how hard you find the system to learn has to do with your learning style and inclination. People who find tables of contents and hundreds of charts seem to find this system counterintuitive. I had no trouble figuring it out, and understood most of it on the first read-through, despite the fact that most RPGs take me seven or eight read-throughs to really follow.

As a review of the game, I'd just say this: I've never had a group of players get so fully immersed in the storytelling so quickly without worrying about the rules. Ever. The rules system recedes into the background, and while the checks are fun to make, they don't take over the day's gameplay. As others have said, the game encourages/requires a small party, but having played D&D in six, seven, and eight-person groups, I really like the feel of our four-player game. Everyone has enough 'face time,' and while the game encourages the group to work together via the party sheet and via adding fortune dice to others' rolls, there's still enough time to do individual RP with each player because the group is small.

ETA: Thanks, Daedalum, for that comment. I've been thinking exactly the same thing about multiple intelligences since this game came out!

Herr Arnulfe said:

I was thinking of the pattern recognition preferences of the rhythmic intelligence. Which might click with the dice pools. Lianwyre summed up what I meant by kinesthetic appeal. Right back at ya Lianwyre

Its interesting how these design choices impact on different peoples the degree of satisfaction with a system.

My players and I love the new system.

However, in my simple, plebian mind, analyzing mathematical probability of dice rolls is completely antithetical to creativity and imagination. Math kills escapism for me (and my players).

I prefer playing RPGs with average people, not math grognards.

Or mathnards, as it were.

Necrozius said:

What about math fanboys? Mathboys?

I'd bet the mathboys are frustrated..but that's the good thing..they'll figure out a solution

jh

Where do you suppose mathboys and mathnards fit on the Geek Hierarchy?

www.brunching.com/geekhierarchy.html

Necrozius said:

Probably just below Fanboys and Grognards respectively, wherever that places them.

One thing I really like better in this edition is that there is only one action in a round, no matter how high rank you get. There are individual cards that allow more actions however, but this is a big plus for balance.

Herr Arnulfe said:

Where's miniatures gamers? And are 13-year old 40k fans higher or lower on the chart than 13-year old gamers?