2 hours ago, Ishi Tonu said:

We could very well see Shoju bite it in the Scorpion story.....which would mean we could maybe get an undead version of Shoju in the Shadowlands deluxe expansion....and I'm totally down for that.

If I was a betting man my money is on Kachiko and Hotaru being half sisters in FFG's version.

Speaking of hypothetical wagers, do you really think a Shadowlands expansion is in any way guaranteed? It wouldn't upend my comprehension of the universe if it were to happen, but it's not something I expect at the moment, at least not for some time given Katrina's stated intentions for the story. As an analogy, while it is possible to play Wildlings currently in AGoT 2E, it's not as if they are a full-fledged faction in their own right.

On Saturday, July 01, 2017 at 5:01 PM, Ide Yoshiya said:

Speaking of hypothetical wagers, do you really think a Shadowlands expansion is in any way guaranteed? It wouldn't upend my comprehension of the universe if it were to happen, but it's not something I expect at the moment, at least not for some time given Katrina's stated intentions for the story. As an analogy, while it is possible to play Wildlings currently in AGoT 2E, it's not as if they are a full-fledged faction in their own right.

Personally as a life long Shadowlands player I hope they don't get an expansion for a long time, if ever. I'd much rather see them be neutral characters to start and eventually work their way into clans as part of story and tournament "rewards" for clans that use Shadowlands cards in their deck. Only when the Shadowlands has spread the taint to a degree where the corruption of one or more clans cannot be ignored would I want to see an actual Shadowlands faction with their own stronghold and rules, if necessary.

I have a sinking feeling that we'll see a playable Shadowlands sooner than it is needed and we'll end up caught within the never ending loop of combined might of all the clans vs the Shadowlands..... which feels like a neverevding game of whack-a-mole. I really hope FFG resists the urge to cater to all the various fan bases within the game and allows the die hard fans to earn their faction being represented in the game. You want Mantis back, then start rocking Yoritomo with decks built from mostly neutral characters and make it happen. You want Shadowlands back then rock the bad guys and risk getting dishonored out of the game moments before your victory was assured.

42 minutes ago, Ishi Tonu said:

Personally as a life long Shadowlands player I hope they don't get an expansion for a long time, if ever. I'd much rather see them be neutral characters to start and eventually work their way into clans as part of story and tournament "rewards" for clans that use Shadowlands cards in their deck. Only when the Shadowlands has spread the taint to a degree where the corruption of one or more clans cannot be ignored would I want to see an actual Shadowlands faction with their own stronghold and rules, if necessary.

I have a sinking feeling that we'll see a playable Shadowlands sooner than it is needed and we'll end up caught within the never ending loop of combined might of all the clans vs the Shadowlands..... which feels like a neverevding game of whack-a-mole. I really hope FFG resists the urge to cater to all the various fan bases within the game and allows the die hard fans to earn their faction being represented in the game. You want Mantis back, then start rocking him with decks built from mostly neutral characters and make it happen. You want Shadowlands back then rock the bad guys and risk getting dishonored out of the game moments before your victory was assured.

Personally as #Crab4Life, I think a perpetual game of Whack-an-Oni has serious merit.

Hmm... There is an endless list of things a husband can do to drive a wife crazy. But I have not put much thought into the crimes if Hotaru's father.

What if it is Shadowlands related? How much would his family know? Would his family have taken action to prevent the other clans from learning?

2 minutes ago, Devin-the-Poet said:

Hmm... There is an endless list of things a husband can do to drive a wife crazy. But I have not put much thought into the crimes if Hotaru's father.

What if it is Shadowlands related? How much would his family know? Would his family have taken action to prevent the other clans from learning?

Interesting notion. It would havr taken serious effort for someone tainted to get that close the Hantei.

5 minutes ago, Kuni Katsuyoshi said:

Personally as #Crab4Life, I think a perpetual game of Whack-an-Oni has serious merit.

Considering Kisada went so far as to sacrifice his own son to get a Crab Clan Oni to fight, that makes sense.

Just now, Ishi Tonu said:

Considering Kisada went so far as to sacrifice his own son to get a Crab Clan Oni to fight, that makes sense.

Sheesh, make one poor decision.........

3 minutes ago, Kuni Katsuyoshi said:

Sheesh, make one poor decision.........

Or was it one good decision? Some might say that Kisada's mistake was that he didn't go far enough.

26 minutes ago, Ishi Tonu said:

Or was it one good decision? Some might say that Kisada's mistake was that he didn't go far enough.

I think many within the 'some' would be considered 'nucking futs'...We should not look to those folks for sound Life-coaching

1 hour ago, Kuni Katsuyoshi said:

I think many within the 'some' would be considered 'nucking futs'...We should not look to those folks for sound Life-coaching

If the Fu $h!ts......... wear it!

Eh, I still think the simplest and most probable explanation for Hotaru's coldness towards her Father and his death is because if her mother. IMHO she blames him for her death and considers his demise kind of a kharmic retribution.

1 hour ago, WHW said:

Eh, I still think the simplest and most probable explanation for Hotaru's coldness towards her Father and his death is because if her mother. IMHO she blames him for her death and considers his demise kind of a kharmic retribution.

Well OBVIOUSLY - but that doesn't make a very interesting theory. Needs moar twist

15 hours ago, shosuko said:

Needs moar twist

Hotaru's feelings towards her father are in fact completely baseless, and are stemming from her vanity and wounded self-esteem. She is not angry at Satsume because of her mother or anything like that, but because he had the guts to openly see her as what she really was: a walking disappointment and 120 pounds of wasted human flesh. This rubs Hotaru to the wrong way, and leads to her hating Satsume. She is pretty much projecting all the negativity of her own existence into her father, because it is easier to do this than to face with her heavily flawed character.

Bonus points if Satsume and his wife had a fairly good and healthy relationship despite him being so workaholic, and her death was some sort of silly accident rather than true suicide.

Extra bonus points if Hotaru almost realizes this after an extensive character arc, but then her development suddenly collapses as she backs away from admitting that the problem was with her, and continues her petty and pointless hating on her father to cover up her flaws.

A father who considers his hound adult child to be a "120 pounds of wasted human flesh" is necessarily doing it wrong. Also, I'm loathe to ever compliment the Crane, but their Daimyo's headshot game is on point. How disappointing could a child who can one-shot an enemy clan champion from hundreds of yards away really be?

On a more serious note, major story characters - from whose perspective the story is being told - aren't going to be shown to be mediocrities. This isn't a Cohen Brothers's movie folks.

On 7/1/2017 at 3:52 PM, Ishi Tonu said:

Until they do a full reveal I wouldn't get too excited. The Lion Clan already lost the champ that was originally revealed. It appears as if the Phoenix Champ is not going to be Ujimitsu. We could very well see Shoju bite it in the Scorpion story.....which would mean we could maybe get an undead version of Shoju in the Shadowlands deluxe expansion....and I'm totally down for that.

I would like to point out that this wasn't exactly a 'bait-and-switch' sort of situation; it seems like they wanted to open up the Lion storyline with one of the more significant Lion story threads of that era; Arasou dying at the hands of the Crane, Toturi being pushed into a position of leadership that he doesn't feel comfortable with, and Tsuko ragequitting in response to Arasou dying are all well-established parts of the original L5R canon, and were all tremendously significant factors leading up to the Clan Wars/Second Day of Thunder arc. I would be exceedingly surprised if the Phoenix champ isn't Ujimitsu, and even moreso if the Scorpion Champ isn't Shoju.

I understand it's a new canon in ways (a new Crane champ killing Arasou to make it more personal as opposed to him being killed by a Daidoji Ambush), but I think that overall, they're keeping a good portion of the story familiar (for now at least). I think the Crane clan champ shakeup is probably the biggest major divergence that they're gonna field at the moment.

There was an event in Paris recently that had banners for each clan, showing their Champions. Scorpion had Shoju, Phoenix had Tsukune.

18 minutes ago, Rawls said:

A father who considers his hound adult child to be a "120 pounds of wasted human flesh" is necessarily doing it wrong.

Well, this is good ammunition for an in-depth exploration of the daughter-father relationship and Hotaru's character flaws .

Y'know, you gotta build that complex and multi-layered character and all that.

2 hours ago, AtoMaki said:

Hotaru's feelings towards her father are in fact completely baseless, and are stemming from her vanity and wounded self-esteem. She is not angry at Satsume because of her mother or anything like that, but because he had the guts to openly see her as what she really was: a walking disappointment and 120 pounds of wasted human flesh. This rubs Hotaru to the wrong way, and leads to her hating Satsume. She is pretty much projecting all the negativity of her own existence into her father, because it is easier to do this than to face with her heavily flawed character.

Bonus points if Satsume and his wife had a fairly good and healthy relationship despite him being so workaholic, and her death was some sort of silly accident rather than true suicide.

Extra bonus points if Hotaru almost realizes this after an extensive character arc, but then her development suddenly collapses as she backs away from admitting that the problem was with her, and continues her petty and pointless hating on her father to cover up her flaws.

Yikes!, One might get the impression you don't like Hotaru much.

Nah, everyone likes Hotaru, especially with those mad archery skills

18 minutes ago, Kuni Katsuyoshi said:

Yikes!, One might get the impression you don't like Hotaru much.

Nah, everyone likes Hotaru, especially with those mad archery skills

To be honest, that's what I got out of that post...

2 hours ago, AtoMaki said:

Hotaru's feelings towards her father are in fact completely baseless, and are stemming from her vanity and wounded self-esteem. She is not angry at Satsume because of her mother or anything like that, but because he had the guts to openly see her as what she really was: a walking disappointment and 120 pounds of wasted human flesh. This rubs Hotaru to the wrong way, and leads to her hating Satsume. She is pretty much projecting all the negativity of her own existence into her father, because it is easier to do this than to face with her heavily flawed character.

Bonus points if Satsume and his wife had a fairly good and healthy relationship despite him being so workaholic, and her death was some sort of silly accident rather than true suicide.

Extra bonus points if Hotaru almost realizes this after an extensive character arc, but then her development suddenly collapses as she backs away from admitting that the problem was with her, and continues her petty and pointless hating on her father to cover up her flaws.

So the Crane girl is an emo kid who has no clue what danger the real world holds, because she's consumed with "looking cool" and "being at cool events"? Sounds like a plan! Crane suck

25 minutes ago, Kuni Katsuyoshi said:

Yikes!, One might get the impression you don't like Hotaru much.

Nah, everyone likes Hotaru, especially with those mad archery skills

:sad face emote:

6 minutes ago, shosuko said:

So the Crane girl is an emo kid who has no clue what danger the real world holds, because she's consumed with "looking cool" and "being at cool events"? Sounds like a plan! Crane suck

:sad face emote:

emo, check, consumed with "looking cool" and "being at cool events", check. ****, that's a shockingly accurate description of me. No wonder I'm Crane!

33 minutes ago, shosuko said:

So the Crane girl is an emo kid who has no clue what danger the real world holds, because she's consumed with "looking cool" and "being at cool events"? Sounds like a plan! Crane suck

Not at all. The Crane girl is a self-absorbed jerk who firmly believes she is the hottest **** in the neighborhood and can do whatever she wants because she can get away with anything. She is not necessarily wrong, mind you, but she is completely insufferable and tends to self-destruct spontaneously as she spins out of control. When reminded that she is a pretty bad person all things considered, she goes "Muh daddy is a bad dude, hate him not me!" rather than admit that she ain't that cool or, Fortunes forbid, change her ways. She is kinda like the archetypal alpha b*tch turned up to eleven plus daddy issues.

Here is the character in action, though "she" is still Hoturi here. If you know Legend of Korra, then Korra also had a very similar personality.

By the way, it is not like I dislike Hotaru, I'm only brainstorming a plot twist for her character .

9 minutes ago, AtoMaki said:

Not at all. The Crane girl is a self-absorbed jerk who firmly believes she is the hottest **** in the neighborhood and can do whatever she wants because she can get away with anything. She is not necessarily wrong, mind you, but she is completely insufferable and tends to self-destruct spontaneously as she spins out of control. When reminded that she is a pretty bad person all things considered, she goes "Muh daddy is a bad dude, hate him not me!" rather than admit that she ain't that cool or, Fortunes forbid, change her ways. She is kinda like the archetypal alpha b*tch turned up to eleven plus daddy issues.

Here is the character in action, though "she" is still Hoturi here. If you know Legend of Korra, then Korra also had a very similar personality.

By the way, it is not like I dislike Hotaru, I'm only brainstorming a plot twist for her character .

The real risk here being walking the line of flawed and intolerable. I'll bite that it could be a compelling concept but only so long as that kind of personality doesn't remain status quo. I'd also argue there are other ways to subvert the daddy problems trope that run less risk of the character falling into a completely different cliché of "elitist rich kid".

She seems like the perfect Crane to me.

Notice how we always end up talking about her.

27 minutes ago, Kuni Katsuyoshi said:

She seems like the perfect Crane to me.

Notice how we always end up talking about her.

:sad face emote: