In the ol5R story line Bayushi Kachiko had a fling with Doji Hoturi. It was one of those more genuine romances that arranged marriages can get in the way of, and when Kachiko was introduced to Bayushi Shoju, and became his wife - the affair was a loose end to tie up. Unfortunately Shoju had some element of "weakness" where he was unable to produce an heir. The fling between Kachiko and Hoturi was reignited and used to "fix" Shoju's problem. The child was unmistakably Hoturi's son, but since Scorpion all wear masks, and Shoju always a mask with complete coverage, the secret was kept.

In this timeline for L5R Hotaru is a girl, and unless they are going to introduce some really awkward kami rituals... this love story needs an edit. Kachiko is fond of Hotaru, and vice versa, so they still have some connection. Maybe they are lovers, maybe they are "like sisters" but either way... they are obviously familiar. Kachiko has spent a considerable amount of time with Hotaru.

Doji Satsume has died and it is a mystery what has happened to him. He was not the best father, or the best person in general. Was he abusive to Hotaru? Hotaru shows no familiar feelings with her father. When addressing the death of Satsume she says "The death of Satsume, Emerald Champion, is a grave matter," but then says "the death of Satsume, our father, however... Perhaps that is justice finally done."

"Justice?" What would the Crane do if they saw the abuse Satsume unloaded at home? In the story Kakita Toshimoko and Kakita Yoshi together were barely enough to urge him to pass on the leadership of the Crane to Hotaru. Would they have simply urged him to stop his abuse? Would they have kept face of the Crane by leaving it a private matter? Are they the "old world" style of dealing with abuse?

Then we have the last piece of my theory - Hotaru was still an obedient daughter, and certainly followed his instructions. He was harsh, but she complied. Has Satsume done more than be a rough and demanding father figure? Did he assault any others around him that would make Hotaru consider it "justice?" She felt he drove her mother off a cliff, but she was unable to act against him...

Kachiko and Hotaru have an honest familiarity, and have spent a lot of time together. Kachiko is no Crane, especially now that she is married to Bayushi Shoju. I speculate that Satsume forced himself on Kachiko, and that Hotaru knew it. Hotaru would be unable to act against her father, but Kachiko would get justice. Kachiko had Satsume killed, and with the full resources of the Bayushi Shoju and the Scorpion Clan it is a perfect cover up that the Emerald Magistrates may never figure out... and we have an heir...

19 minutes ago, shosuko said:

In the ol5R story line Bayushi Kachiko had a fling with Doji Hoturi. It was one of those more genuine romances that arranged marriages can get in the way of, and when Kachiko was introduced to Bayushi Shoju, and became his wife - the affair was a loose end to tie up. Unfortunately Shoju had some element of "weakness" where he was unable to produce an heir. The fling between Kachiko and Hoturi was reignited and used to "fix" Shoju's problem. The child was unmistakably Hoturi's son, but since Scorpion all wear masks, and Shoju always a mask with complete coverage, the secret was kept.

In this timeline for L5R Hotaru is a girl, and unless they are going to introduce some really awkward kami rituals... this love story needs an edit. Kachiko is fond of Hotaru, and vice versa, so they still have some connection. Maybe they are lovers, maybe they are "like sisters" but either way... they are obviously familiar. Kachiko has spent a considerable amount of time with Hotaru.

Doji Satsume has died and it is a mystery what has happened to him. He was not the best father, or the best person in general. Was he abusive to Hotaru? Hotaru shows no familiar feelings with her father. When addressing the death of Satsume she says "The death of Satsume, Emerald Champion, is a grave matter," but then says "the death of Satsume, our father, however... Perhaps that is justice finally done."

"Justice?" What would the Crane do if they saw the abuse Satsume unloaded at home? In the story Kakita Toshimoko and Kakita Yoshi together were barely enough to urge him to pass on the leadership of the Crane to Hotaru. Would they have simply urged him to stop his abuse? Would they have kept face of the Crane by leaving it a private matter? Are they the "old world" style of dealing with abuse?

Then we have the last piece of my theory - Hotaru was still an obedient daughter, and certainly followed his instructions. He was harsh, but she complied. Has Satsume done more than be a rough and demanding father figure? Did he assault any others around him that would make Hotaru consider it "justice?" She felt he drove her mother off a cliff, but she was unable to act against him...

Kachiko and Hotaru have an honest familiarity, and have spent a lot of time together. Kachiko is no Crane, especially now that she is married to Bayushi Shoju. I speculate that Satsume forced himself on Kachiko, and that Hotaru knew it. Hotaru would be unable to act against her father, but Kachiko would get justice. Kachiko had Satsume killed, and with the full resources of the Bayushi Shoju and the Scorpion Clan it is a perfect cover up that the Emerald Magistrates may never figure out... and we have an heir...

Do we? Is Dairu still around?

It's a theory. Dairu could be written out of the remake, or Shoju could have no problem producing heirs. Shoju could be a beautiful person, and Satsume died of a toe infection lol. Who knows. This is just speculation, my theory.

6 minutes ago, shosuko said:

It's a theory. Dairu could be written out of the remake, or Shoju could have no problem producing heirs. Shoju could be a beautiful person, and Satsume died of a toe infection lol. Who knows. This is just speculation, my theory.

It's a good theory. It could be correct.

I only have two minor issues.

1. The Scorpion being responsible seems ....too obvious to me

2.One would think Kachiko's manner of revenge would be more epic than simple poison

but that is just my opinion.

Perhaps the same kharmic forces that gave Satsume a daughter also made Shoju fertile.

I think it is a lot simpler. Satume and Hoturi's relationship is pretty much the same as Satume and Hoturu's. Mother dying and cause is the same. The only change is Satume did not give Hoturu leadership of the Crane upon becoming Emerald Champion and he dies before Coup time period for unknown causes. I am disappointed the Hoturu does not have the Duelist trait. Chances are his death has to do with being the Emerald Champion and finding out something he was not meant to know.

2 minutes ago, Ide Yoshiya said:

Perhaps the same kharmic forces that gave Satsume a daughter also made Shoju fertile.

Though if his card art is any indication he's still fugly, so he deserves somthing nice

( I find myself strangely happy that Shoju is a evergreen)

1 hour ago, shosuko said:

I speculate that Satsume forced himself on Kachiko

In the old canon, it was well established that Kachiko was immune to this kind of a thing. She caused quite a lot of uncomfortable moments for some big guys in the Burning Sands during the Scorpion Exile.

Oh, and Shoju was not infertile. He almost had a heir from Kachiko, but she miscarried.

10 minutes ago, AtoMaki said:

Oh, and Shoju was not infertile. He almost had a heir from Kachiko, but she miscarried.

This I did not know. My only firsthand experience of this story was in the Clan Wars novels by Wizards. It may have mentioned this and I simply forgot; it's been awhile. But were they not able to try again? Even if Shoju had to keep his mask on during the act?

EDIT: Nevermind; I forgot this is Rokugan, where afflictions are considered shameful.

Just now, Ide Yoshiya said:

But were they not able to try again? Even if Shoju had to keep his mask on during the act?

IIRC the implication was that Shoju really liked Dairu and did not plan to have another kid, considering how busy he was with other things at that time.

23 minutes ago, Kuni Katsuyoshi said:

It's a good theory. It could be correct.

I only have two minor issues.

1. The Scorpion being responsible seems ....too obvious to me

2.One would think Kachiko's manner of revenge would be more epic than simple poison

but that is just my opinion.

I get the impression from the story that both Kachiko and Hotaru are young. This may have been Kachiko's first time...

15 minutes ago, Kuni Katsuyoshi said:

Though if his card art is any indication he's still fugly, so he deserves somthing nice

( I find myself strangely happy that Shoju is a evergreen)

Yeah - I was always jealous every time another Champion got another experienced version and Shoju was gone T_T Yay evergreen!

14 minutes ago, AtoMaki said:

In the old canon, it was well established that Kachiko was immune to this kind of a thing. She caused quite a lot of uncomfortable moments for some big guys in the Burning Sands during the Scorpion Exile.

Oh, and Shoju was not infertile. He almost had a heir from Kachiko, but she miscarried.

This is new cannon. She seems young to me from the fiction, so she could be less skilled.

I didn't say Shoju was infertile, I said he had a weakness where he could not produce an heir, and Kachiko and Hoturi's fling "fixed" that by producing an heir. We don't know if that has changed, but as Katsuyoshi said - he's still fugly lol

40 minutes ago, Kuni Katsuyoshi said:

Though if his card art is any indication he's still fugly, so he deserves somthing nice

( I find myself strangely happy that Shoju is a evergreen)

Until they do a full reveal I wouldn't get too excited. The Lion Clan already lost the champ that was originally revealed. It appears as if the Phoenix Champ is not going to be Ujimitsu. We could very well see Shoju bite it in the Scorpion story.....which would mean we could maybe get an undead version of Shoju in the Shadowlands deluxe expansion....and I'm totally down for that.

If I was a betting man my money is on Kachiko and Hotaru being half sisters in FFG's version.

"The force is strong in my family.....my sister has it"

6 minutes ago, Ishi Tonu said:

Until they do a full reveal I wouldn't get too excited. The Lion Clan already lost the champ that was originally revealed. It appears as if the Phoenix Champ is not going to be Ujimitsu. We could very well see Shoju bite it in the Scorpion story.....which would mean we could maybe get an undead version of Shoju in the Shadowlands deluxe expansion....and I'm totally down for that.

If I was a betting man I'd say that Kachiko and Hotaru are half sisters.

Shoju has art. So I feel farly safe in my assumption

someone should post it here for inspiration.

10 minutes ago, Kuni Katsuyoshi said:

Shoju has art. So I feel farly safe in my assumption

someone should post it here for inspiration.

Yeah if they bait and switch with Shoju there will be blood!!

But....but... what if that art pans down a little bit to reveal an open Black Scroll and Shoju starts off as Shadowlands?

For realsies I think Kachiko and Hotaru are half sisters.

What makes you think they are half sisters? or is this more theory than observation?

I'm not judging, I'm curious - and theories are as a reason as any to waste time between spoilers lol

4 minutes ago, shosuko said:

Yeah if they bait and switch with Shoju there will be blood!!

If FFG pulled a bait and switch with any clan it would by fitting that it was the Scorpion. Then we would know the real reason for the Scorpion Clan Coup.

"Yes young one I will tell you the story of how a horde of Scorpion fanatics plunged Rokugan into darkness because they were tricked by FFG."

But dad says it was the black scrolls.......

10 minutes ago, Ishi Tonu said:

But....but... what if that art pans down a little bit to reveal an open Black Scroll and Shoju starts off as Shadowlands?

For realsies I think Kachiko and Hotaru are half sisters.

Ah, you like evil monsters too much.

You keep messing with those things you'll have hair growing on your palms or something.

I think it's Littlefinger.

33 minutes ago, shosuko said:

What makes you think they are half sisters? or is this more theory than observation?

I'm not judging, I'm curious - and theories are as a reason as any to waste time between spoilers lol

What if we misinterpreted Kachiko's manarisms in the story with Hataro? Maybe what we thought was her being more experienced with public perception and trying to avoid scandal was actually her being conflicted about her feelings because she recently discovered the truth.

Satsume slept with Kachiko's mother and Shoju did not take kindly to bring tricked into a marriage with someone who is half Crane by blood. whom I removes Kachiko's mother and non-birth father from the equation. Only Satsume and his wife have knowledge of the affair. The drive Satsume's wife mad making it look like Satsume was responsible, but, Shoju decided it's not enough or Satsume sees Hotaru getting too close to Kachiko and is going to reveal the truth.....either way Shoju had to get rid of Satsume.

Kachiko finds out somehow and doesn't like being used as a pawn to get intel from Hotaru anymore since that is the real reason she was cozying up with Hotaru to begin with. Now she knows why she has these feelings she was developing for Hotaru.

When Kachiko has her baby and it has Crane features people are going to wonder so they can still hide his/her appearance from everyone with the traditional mask to not draw suspicion. Kachiko will turn to Hotaru to try and usurp Shoju. Shoju makes moves to secure his power which the other clans take as a sign off agression. In desperation Shoju has the first Black Scroll opened.

Please stop!

14 minutes ago, Ishi Tonu said:

What if we misinterpreted Kachiko's manarisms in the story with Hataro? Maybe what we thought was her being more experienced with public perception and trying to avoid scandal was actually her being conflicted about her feelings because she recently discovered the truth.

Satsume slept with Kachiko's mother and Shoju did not take kindly to bring tricked into a marriage with someone who is half Crane by blood. whom I removes Kachiko's mother and non-birth father from the equation. Only Satsume and his wife have knowledge of the affair. The drive Satsume's wife mad making it look like Satsume was responsible, but, Shoju decided it's not enough or Satsume sees Hotaru getting too close to Kachiko and is going to reveal the truth.....either way Shoju had to get rid of Satsume.

Kachiko finds out somehow and doesn't like being used as a pawn to get intel from Hotaru anymore since that is the real reason she was cozying up with Hotaru to begin with. Now she knows why she has these feelings she was developing for Hotaru.

When Kachiko has her baby and it has Crane features people are going to wonder so they can still hide his/her appearance from everyone with the traditional mask to not draw suspicion. Kachiko will turn to Hotaru to try and usurp Shoju. Shoju makes moves to secure his power which the other clans take as a sign off agression. In desperation Shoju has the first Black Scroll opened.

Wow, thats very Falcon Crest....I kinda dig it

As for the Black scroll thing....no I don't feel like stepping on your dreams.

I think we've let this go on enough. Please stop before some new player reads your manically ramblings and starts to think there is a shred of the real story in that.

Like a true bad boy.....

"cant stop, won't stop"

At this point my story is just as plausible as anything else. I can deal with being wrong but it would.appear some are going to have a hard time coping If I turn out to be right. Lol