1 minute ago, PhantomFO said:

He didn't actually join the Rebellion until after the first act was over, as he was spending that time getting tortured by Saw Guerrera. His first real action was stealing a freighter at the end of Act 2. His contribution to the Rebellion is pretty much on par with Obi-Wan's, who sacrificed his life to shut down the tractor beam that allowed the Falcon to escape.

That is just stupid, he smuggled intel out of the empire to the rebellion and you say that all that work he did to do that "does not count" because he was not apart of the official rebellion?

Million! Er yes, I too would like some sort of pilot Leia.

1 hour ago, Icelom said:

** spoilers **

Bodhi Rook scarified everything to smuggle out the communication and intel that eventually lead to the plans being stolen for the death star, that were used to explode it (not to mention the fact without him on the surface the transmission would not have happened...). He did what he thought was right at extreme personal risk and cost on several occasions.

The guy is one of the biggest hero's of the entire rebellion imo. Without him and his various contributions the rebellion is crushed.

And that is still less than Obi-Wan did. Who btw stopped Darth Maul from taking Ezra Bridger as his Apprentice, brought the death star plans to alliance and sacrificed himself along the way to rescue the last jedi. a high ranking alliance leader and the smugglers they were traveling with on the death star. All with the elaborate plan to train luke as a force ghost and prepare him for his training under master yoda. And who is Bodhi Rook? A yeah, I remember, the pilot.

1 hour ago, Odanan said:

Of course we could bump Leia's pilot skill to 7 (since apparently she is a very skilled pilot in the new canon).

I have to say that if this was the Pilot Leia card we get, I'd fly it, just for that ability alone. That is one amazing ability.

1 minute ago, SEApocalypse said:

And that is still less than Obi-Wan did. Who btw stopped Darth Maul from taking Ezra Bridger as his Apprentice, brought the death star plans to alliance and sacrificed himself along the way to rescue the last jedi. a high ranking alliance leader and the smugglers they were traveling with on the death star. All with the elaborate plan to train luke as a force ghost and prepare him for his training under master yoda. And who is Bodhi Rook? A yeah, I remember, the pilot.

Who also did not bother to slightly nudge vader into the lava.... come on man.... what a huge mistake.

I've always found the Leia-naysayers odd - did you watch the movies? For a few very crucial scenes at the end of The Empire Strikes Back, there is literally no one in the cockpit except Leia. When they escape the Empire on Cloud City, Leia is actually flying the Falcon for half the time.

When Leia and Luke crash-land on Mimban (old-canon), Leia is flying a Y-Wing.

Leia flies the speeder bikes on Endor, so she must have pretty fast reflexes and technical aptitude.

Finally, it's not just the N-1, she actually flies all kinds of stuff in the new comics!

I don't know what's wrong with FFG, but they're like the conductor at my local symphony who is sick of Mozart and only plays obscure pieces by Mahler and Wagner. I guess they're bored of the original Star Wars? Come on FFG. I know it's a tiny bit of a stretch to make every character from the movie present in dogfights, but Leia, General Veers, Obi Wan, Yoda, Lobot, and so many more have such a minimal presence in this game and you've got the ace pilots being stuff like "Thweek", and "Talonbane Cobra"? Not to mention basically unnamed (nicknamed) characters like "Echo", "Wampa", and "Omega Leader"?

Just put Leia in a Y-Wing and get it over with!

1 hour ago, Princezilla said:

In fairness to that though, he really didn't do anything at all during the Civil War era except give vague cryptic advice, get in one swordfight and then die. And he canonically hated flying.

Greedo literally didnt do anything except get shot under the table

Yet hes in the game.....

29 minutes ago, Nyxen said:

I think you're majorly discounting literally every other Star Wars pilot in this analysis. For example, Luke may not have had formal training but it was establishe in ANH that he and Biggs were expierenced pilots (Beggars Canyon) and that Luke was a very good shot (Womp Rats). Chewbacca was the companion to a renowned smuggler with experience evading and outrunning Imperial patrols as well as other criminal elements. In what canon do we have evidence of Leia being a seasoned pilot? The only two instances I know of are when she flies the N1 and when the party is leaving cloud city.

29 minutes ago, Giledhil said:

I don't know what you're smoking, but it must be good stuff.

Luke basically used all his free time learning to fly on his T-16. Solo has been a smuggler quite some time before ANH.
Leia being trained as a starfighter pilot, while sieging in the senate, is completely dumb. She's already a strong woman character, no need to add some more.

What Luke was doing was basically the Star Wars equivalent of some backwoods boys going out in a 4 Wheeler shooting opossums with a BB gun, it's not even close to a good prep for starfighting, Biggs did a stent in the Imperial Academy before joining the Rebellion to train his skills up. There is a reason everyone in the briefing looked at him like he was an idiot when he said that, if he wasn't Force sensitive he would have been screwed.

She also flies in Moving Target, an episode of Rebels, Bloodline, and several other of the comics

2 hours ago, Icelom said:

What did she do on the falcon? she was there but she did nothing on the falcon itself.

She flew the falcon while han and luke shot up some poor academy ties in the death star escape....

Notice where she was sitting in that fight. Han's chair. Not chewies.

12 minutes ago, Princezilla said:

Rebels, Bloodline, and several other of the comics

I just threw up.

2 hours ago, Icelom said:

What did she do on the falcon? she was there but she did nothing on the falcon itself.

She flew it into a rock whilst trying to get away from Obsidian Squadron. This prevented the Falcon taking an action and shooting that turn.

12 minutes ago, Giledhil said:

I just threw up.

I hear they offer treatment for that now.

3 hours ago, Princezilla said:

So... Where is she?

Detention block AA-23. You go get her. I'll hold them off here.

Everyone is making the horrible assumption that this game is thematically based on the IP of Star Wars.

Leia, and any other character we want, will only ever show up if they want to assign a mechanic to it; they will never show up because its a game about Star Wars.

2 hours ago, Kieransi said:

I've always found the Leia-naysayers odd - did you watch the movies? For a few very crucial scenes at the end of The Empire Strikes Back, there is literally no one in the cockpit except Leia. When they escape the Empire on Cloud City, Leia is actually flying the Falcon for half the time.

When Leia and Luke crash-land on Mimban (old-canon), Leia is flying a Y-Wing.

Leia flies the speeder bikes on Endor, so she must have pretty fast reflexes and technical aptitude.

Finally, it's not just the N-1, she actually flies all kinds of stuff in the new comics!

I don't know what's wrong with FFG, but they're like the conductor at my local symphony who is sick of Mozart and only plays obscure pieces by Mahler and Wagner. I guess they're bored of the original Star Wars? Come on FFG. I know it's a tiny bit of a stretch to make every character from the movie present in dogfights, but Leia, General Veers, Obi Wan, Yoda, Lobot, and so many more have such a minimal presence in this game and you've got the ace pilots being stuff like "Thweek", and "Talonbane Cobra"? Not to mention basically unnamed (nicknamed) characters like "Echo", "Wampa", and "Omega Leader"?

Just put Leia in a Y-Wing and get it over with!

And I have a comic book here where she builds with Wedge and Luke X-Wing squadron - and often flies a X-Wing herself!!!

47 minutes ago, Darth Meanie said:

Everyone is making the horrible assumption that this game is thematically based on the IP of Star Wars.

Leia, and any other character we want, will only ever show up if they want to assign a mechanic to it; they will never show up because its a game about Star Wars.

That's just not true. FFG generally does a very good job of balancing gameplay with lore and they clearly put a lot of effort into it. Yeah they have missed the mark a small number of times and while comparative effectiveness between ships often gets warped by unexpected meta combos they really do seem to try to make sure each ship flies like the lore says it should and where possible have pilot/crew abilities reflect character fluff. They do a better job with some then they do with others, like the Lando crew and all versions of Chewie but they do at least try.

3 minutes ago, Princezilla said:

That's just not true. FFG generally does a very good job of balancing gameplay with lore and they clearly put a lot of effort into it. Yeah they have missed the mark a small number of times and while comparative effectiveness between ships often gets warped by unexpected meta combos they really do seem to try to make sure each ship flies like the lore says it should and where possible have pilot/crew abilities reflect character fluff.

Yeah totally. Boshek is a perfect reflection of...?

8 minutes ago, BlodVargarna said:

Yeah totally. Boshek is a perfect reflection of...?

It's obviously not going to be possible with everything, translating lore to rules is tricky and sometimes they just have to flub it but they do do it whenever reasonably possible.

4 hours ago, Odanan said:

Of course we could bump Leia's pilot skill to 7 (since apparently she is a very skilled pilot in the new canon).

Interesting though I'd imagine a dial closer to the Scyk or TAP, the ship's design and engine positioning screams of a ship built for sharp turns and close range maneuvering.

Leia's ability is also extremely potent, I know you based it on her crew card but the infinite use on one ship is extremely potent, it basically let's her turn any ship into a Defender or Jumpmaster and the fact that on some ships it can be combined with Kanan or Stay on Target could make it extremely hard to balance. I think this is one of those cases like with Lando and Vader where the crew and pilot ability have nothing in common.

27 minutes ago, Princezilla said:

Interesting though I'd imagine a dial closer to the Scyk or TAP, the ship's design and engine positioning screams of a ship built for sharp turns and close range maneuvering.

Leia's ability is also extremely potent, I know you based it on her crew card but the infinite use on one ship is extremely potent, it basically let's her turn any ship into a Defender or Jumpmaster and the fact that on some ships it can be combined with Kanan or Stay on Target could make it extremely hard to balance. I think this is one of those cases like with Lando and Vader where the crew and pilot ability have nothing in common.

Would it make Leia more balanced and thematic if she had to take a stress to use her ability and then she could treat everybody's maneuver as white?

5 hours ago, BoxerlessBossk said:

She pilots it at the end of Empire when they're going to pick up Luke from the spiral underneath Cloud City. She's never shown to be an amazing pilot... but she has always been able to fly.

Indeed. She's basically an FFG RPG character who put a couple skill points into the Pilot(space) and Pilot(atmospheric) just so they aren't totally awful at flying.

She's not the next ace. She's a support character, and is honestly more suited to being a Crew card.

53 minutes ago, Kieransi said:

Would it make Leia more balanced and thematic if she had to take a stress to use her ability and then she could treat everybody's maneuver as white?

I think it would be best as "At the beginning of each activation phase, you may choose 1 friendly ship. When that friendly ship would gain a stress token, if you have no stress tokens you may gain that stress token instead."

26 minutes ago, BadMotivator said:

I think it would be best as "At the beginning of each activation phase, you may choose 1 friendly ship. When that friendly ship would gain a stress token, if you have no stress tokens you may gain that stress token instead."

Funny - that's similar to an idea I've had for years for an Episode III character:

"Oddball"

ARC-170

At the start of the combat phase, choose a friendly ship at range 1-3 and assign all of its stress tokens to yourself.

2 hours ago, Princezilla said:

That's just not true. FFG generally does a very good job of balancing gameplay with lore and they clearly put a lot of effort into it. Yeah they have missed the mark a small number of times and while comparative effectiveness between ships often gets warped by unexpected meta combos they really do seem to try to make sure each ship flies like the lore says it should and where possible have pilot/crew abilities reflect character fluff. They do a better job with some then they do with others, like the Lando crew and all versions of Chewie but they do at least try.

It's not entirely true.

There are a lot of things missing in this game because they are more busy balancing the meta. I wish they would spend a little more time fleshing out the game with lore-based releases rather than just point adjustments. To wit:

Wraith Squadron and a bunch of new X-Wing pilots

Phoenix Squadron and bunch of new A-Wing pilots

Just as examples. The the video in the other thread, they say that they made Nym both Rebel and Scum because of the lore. So, yeah, that's cool. My point is that I would really like to see things get in the game just because they are SW, not because they had a mechanic that then needed lore-based names.

I would like to see releases that say "The Battle of Endor Exansion Pack" or "The Battle of Scarif Expansion Pack" that add things to the storylines of the game. More "Heroes of the Resistance" type releases would be nice.

Also, the idea is not just FFG's. I have seen people say that certain things should not be developed because they would duplicate or be too close to something that already exists. To which I would say "who cares, it adds more SW flavor."

2 hours ago, Kieransi said:

Would it make Leia more balanced and thematic if she had to take a stress to use her ability and then she could treat everybody's maneuver as white?

I'd simply go "beggining of activation, may choose friendly ship, treat red as white, yadda yadda, if you do so, you cannot perform actions during this round ".

This maintains the ability while balancing it, as would still make sense to use on self or on friends. Also super useful for blocking.