On 7/2/2017 at 9:47 PM, Fiddleback said:

I'm 100% certain the designer of that item did not intend for the piece of equipment to be usable as that piece of equipment after being used to mask the hilt without some time/and or money being spent to reassemble the said item into a working form again. Some sort of modification to the original item would have been needed which will have cost something to do and to reverse. Credits, significant time, parts, etc. I know people can and will think of exceptions and that's fine. Ultimately though, your table discussion will help you decide.

Or Sam, of course.

Sure but does the price of the attachment still the same. I mean if I have to buy the item then when I then want to make it into the Hilt Masking kit then pay to mod it into the attachment, why is the price the same as the item when I buy it as an attachment. Though now I think I should just wait on my GM's rulling for this.

One more question, with regards to the range upgrade, it is worded that it expands the wording to say the effect covers everybody in short range. now the base effect is worded everyone in engaged range so this one is clear it affects everyone in short range when upgraded.

Moving onto the other control upgrades, the Ebb description for threat and advantage is all opponents in engaged, so what happens when the range upgrade is applied.

similarly Flow is described as affecting only you, so what does the range upgrade do here. Does using the range upgrade on ebb-threat really make it everyone in short range gets threat, but without the upgrade it's only engaged opponents, or is there a wording error on one or more of the upgrades

I have a question about the alternative Force traditions. A Mentor could clearly have a hidden intent towards the players, but how does one get away with the double conflict effect of being trained by a Sith Lord, if the mentor has not revealed himself as such?

Towards Ebb/Flow, the description at some point says it is encouraged to use these alternatingly. Is there a chance I could get an example of this to better see the design intent?

Also, thank you for the developers. On one hand, this is a fantastic book in itself, on the other, has someone been looking at my campaign notes and decided to tick every box on the list of "Mechanics that GM Darth Lectus could need"? Honestly, I cannot begin to describe how useful this release is for the post-SWTOR game I am currently running, between the mentors and the Knowledge topic. Keep up the good work!

The Individual Field Disruptor is a rather complex piece of equipment, with many rules given in the description. It would seem it's intended to shut down any electronic device within Engaged range of it, yet no specific range band is given, is Engaged correct?

Does it shut absolutely any device down that's got electronics? Weapons? Powered Armour? Vehicle components? I assume it also affects the characters own electronic devices too?

It also negates any defence of shields it comes into contact with, what about a stealth field? Shield Bucklers?

The very last section describes making a melee attack using a Melee weapon with +2 damage and Stun Damage. Is this representing the character bringing the IFD close to their opponent? How would you narrate this?

What guidelines do all of you have for including this intriguing piece of equipment in your games?

(perhaps this entire question could be a Wattos black market?)

We'll stop taking questions at midnight tonight.

Last chance to get your questions in for Sunday's show!

On the subject of the Individual Field Disruptor—if a droid PC tried to use it, would he end up disabling himself? What about an organic PC with cybernetics, or carrying a bunch of electronic gear, that tries to use the IFD?

22 minutes ago, awayputurwpn said:

On the subject of the Individual Field Disruptor—if a droid PC tried to use it, would he end up disabling himself? What about an organic PC with cybernetics, or carrying a bunch of electronic gear, that tries to use the IFD?

What about the IFD?

1 minute ago, syrath said:

What about the IFD?

"We tried to create this tech-disabling device...but it kept disabling itself."

Interesting answers about Ebb/Flow. I think it was Sam who said something about the power being designed for use in structured play? I wonder if a reasonable way to handle it would be to restrict its use only to combat and other structured play. This would dispel almost all the worries about it making other talents obsolete.

In particular, there would still be a reason to spend 25 points on the Balance talent (which was previously awesome) rather than just spending 20 points on Ebb/Flow.

1 hour ago, DaverWattra said:

Interesting answers about Ebb/Flow. I think it was Sam who said something about the power being designed for use in structured play? I wonder if a reasonable way to handle it would be to restrict its use only to combat and other structured play. This would dispel almost all the worries about it making other talents obsolete.

In particular, there would still be a reason to spend 25 points on the Balance talent (which was previously awesome) rather than just spending 20 points on Ebb/Flow.

The answer about range doesnt seem to gel with the other force abilities. It was described that flow only works on yourself so you can only give yourself strain / success or advantage and thats it. Ebb however would now seem to all over the place

Basic works against everyone in engaged range

The 2 control upgrades for threat and failure only work on opponents in engaged range

If applying the range upgrade its now all opponents in short range. what now happens with the basic power, is it truly the only odd one out in the tree.

If the entire tree is EBB- only opponents or FLOW-only yourself the there is no point to the magnitude upgrades that allow you to exclude people. As described in the podcast, that would mean magnitude only works on the basic power without the range upgrade. This is hardly in keeping with KISS. I suspect the EBB power is everyone in range ally or oppoent regardless of the control upgrade used. This would temper the level of power available if you have to spend pips to exclude your friends.

3 minutes ago, syrath said:

If the entire tree is EBB- only opponents or FLOW-only your the there is no point to the magnitude upgrades that allow you to exclude people. As described in the podcast, that would mean magnitude only works on the basic power without the range upgrade. This is hardly in keeping with KISS. I suspect the EBB power is everyone in range ally or oppoent regardless of the control upgrade used. This would temper the level of power available if you have to spend pips to exclude your friends.

I agree with your reasoning here. I think it would be best to house-rule the power so that the control upgrades of Ebb affect every character within range.

24 minutes ago, DaverWattra said:

I agree with your reasoning here. I think it would be best to house-rule the power so that the control upgrades of Ebb affect every character within range.

This also fits with the idea that ebb is an aura.

The mistakes / confusions on this power as written

Ebb/Flow basic power - fine

Range - wording corresponds with basic power for Ebb, but seems to expand flows effects to eferyone in short range

Control (advantage/threat) wording changed to all opponents , range upgrade implies it expands effect to all characters in short range

Control (success/failure) wording changed to all opponents , range upgrade implies it expands effect to all characters in short range

Control (yes/no) - worded fine

Control (committ) -seems fine

Strength upgrades - all fine

Mastery - labelled as control on tree

Now based on Sam's description, albeit I understand he was put on the spot here

Basic power - Ignores the core rules rule on combined checks requiring a successful ability check and will work on a fail . This rule does say unless othewise specified, but it isnt specified anywhere. (page 281 core book under combined force power checks you require to get enough pips to activate and at least have one uncancelled success)

Range upgrade - Now supposed to be all opponents and has no effect on Flow.

Magnitude upgrades - if the range upgrade above is correct (as per Sam's explaination) then these are only worthwhile using with Ebb's basic power and nothing else , since everything else hits only opponents

Control upgrades for success/failure and advantage/threat would now be worded correctly and only differ from the basic power.

Control (Committ) upgrade ignores the page 281 darksider boxout that explains that they pay strain for using lightside pips , as described in the core book this ability should read for a darksider to have to use strain for lightside pips and still gain conflcit for the dark side pips, however RAW it does appear to work as he explains but since it works counter to the description on page 281 a little explaination would clarify, as the boxout says that a darkside force user suffers strain for using lightside pips and this was where one could assume a darksider is going to suffer strain for both or just for lightside pips.

This throws up another question, since this is now involuntary strain do the strain reducing abilities work on it. This is an unusual ability and is the only commit effect that forces you to keep it on until the end of the encounter.

Also previous questions answered by the devs on Enhance: Brawn and Agility have said that unless it says otherwise you can commit multiple dice , this shows more inconsistency with answers on the same question. So should we now apply the same rule to Enhance that was applied here and only allow 1 increase, or should this node be labelled you can only activate this once.

The other nodes , again, are fine

So either way if you go as written or described there appears to be a lot of problems. Sam's answer throw up the question of why include Magnitude if its of no real use, and why this power isnt explained that its' combined check ignores the core book rule on combined checks and ignores the core book rules on darksiders and ignores the previously answered question that was answered quite clearly that a commit effect can be activated multiple times unless otheewise specified.

I think this has got to be worst example of bad proof reading Ive ever seen thus far from FFG, and I actually felt sorry for Sam being put on the spot and having to come up with an answer there and then when the written version is conflicting enough. Unfortunately those answers have conflict in themselves with core book rulings and previous rulings on questions.

I really hope they clarify this soon.

I thought he said that there was an error in there somewhere, and I think the part that says "enemies only" is incorrect, and it applies only to all characters. He also said a FAQ fix, so, FAQ please?

43 minutes ago, Blackbird888 said:

He also said a FAQ fix, so, FAQ please?

Hahahahahahaha... ahem. Really?

It was very nice for developers to take time and answer our questions.

But I am still confused with the explanation given for ebb/flow control commit.

Is Syrath already stated, I don't see why characters not allowed to commit more than one force die as this upgrade looks exactly the same as enhance force power that allows commits to increase stats. Just trying to figure out what the general rule is for situations like this. Am I missing something in the ebb/flow power description? Or was dev answer in this case an errata to balance the power?

What confuses me even more is how ebb/flow control commit supposed to play (or not play at all) with other force powers. It applies to all skill checks but there are others force powers that can work with specific skill checks as well. So what happens when there is overlap. For example you have total force rating of 3 and have 1 of those committed to ebb/flow control upgrade. You also have enhance that allows to add force to athletics check. So what happens to your athletics checks now. Do both enhance and ebb/flow apply, or you only pick one?

I would like so agree that we need a FAQ for this power. It's really cool thematically but also complicated.

Well, he did specifically apologize for not updating it a while, so I'm hopeful.

2 minutes ago, flarebright said:

Is Syrath already stated, I don't see why characters not allowed to commit more than one force die as this upgrade looks exactly the same as enhance force power that allows commits to increase stats. Just trying to figure out what the general rule is for situations like this. Am I missing something in the ebb/flow power description? Or was dev answer in this case an errata to balance the power?

The simplest answer: it was not written to allow more than one commit.

More complex, theoretical answer: the user is allowing the Force to flow through them in that moment, and you get whatever it gives you, good or bad. Due to the nature of the power, the limit you can focus (commit) to it is equivalent to 1 Force die.

As a GM, I would say that you can use it with other combined Force checks, but it would not be used to trigger any powers or talents, only work on the check itself. In other words, if I had Force rating 3, commit 1 to Ebb/Flow, then made a lightsaber combat check to activate Draw Closer, I would roll 3 Force dice total--however, only on two of those could I spend to activate the effects of Draw Closer, and the third (Ebb/Flow die) would add its effects outside of my ability to spend or not to spend the Force points.

As to the errors in the power itself, I am clear on the idea that there is one, but I'm not certain on which part: is it all characters within range, or all enemies within range? Because he described the effects as an aura, and before noticing the error they spoke about it affecting allies negatively, I have a feeling the former is correct.

15 minutes ago, Blackbird888 said:

Well, he did specifically apologize for not updating it a while, so I'm hopeful.

If nothing else, it shows that he's aware of the issue of the FAQ being out of date.

Of course, FFG is probably entering (if not already entered into) the ramp up for GenCon, so it probably won't be a period of time after GenCon that there'd be any chance of updating the FAQ. Which the updates themselves may depend upon lessons learned from the playtesting of Genesys, and may require waiting until that book drop depending on the nature of the changes.

Well, I found the information he provided on the Crucible and creating our own mobile Jedi training ships very enlightening. It seems that yes, You can apply all of those various options I asked about onto a ship. As he said, "What can't you do?" So, it seems that yes, I can have a lightsaber training facility, and a library, etc on my ship, based upon the answers. Me likey.

1 hour ago, Blackbird888 said:

I thought he said that there was an error in there somewhere, and I think the part that says "enemies only" is incorrect, and it applies only to all characters. He also said a FAQ fix, so, FAQ please?

Actually it was the other way round , he said it didnt make sense that you would apply a debuff that would affect your friends , so it should be opponents only (Thereby removing the need for magnitude upgrades altogether)

Ebb sure is a hot mess, even though it's still awesomeness. I was really glad to hear acknowledgement finally that an updated FaQ is needed, it was also great to hear the design intention of Ebb/Flow. It's just unfortunate the answers where not really that clear.

5 minutes ago, syrath said:

Actually it was the other way round , he said it didnt make sense that you would apply a debuff that would affect your friends , so it should be opponents only (Thereby removing the need for magnitude upgrades altogether)

I think he might of gotten mixed up, because just a moment before they got there, they were talking about how it could negatively effect allies in a narrative sense.

39 minutes ago, Blackbird888 said:

The simplest answer: it was not written to allow more than one commit.

Actually it is, you are allowed to have committed dice and still be able to use other force powers take a FR 3 player who has 5 Brawn /Force Protection 2 and Enhance : Brawn. They could commit force protection 2 in round 1 maneuver and for the action then commit the last die for Enhance:Brawn to have a soak of 8 + armor handy trick for an armorer/protector who has soak 3 armor (superior armored robes) with 1 defence, who could then have 12 soak with defense 2

Just now, syrath said:

Actually it is, you are allowed to have committed dice and still be able to use other force powers take a FR 3 player who has 5 Brawn /Force Protection 2 and Enhance : Brawn. They could commit force protection 2 in round 1 maneuver and for the action then commit the last die for Enhance:Brawn to have a soak of 8 + armor handy trick for an armorer/protector who has soak 3 armor (superior armored robes) with 1 defence, who could then have 12 soak with defense 2

"It" being defined as Ebb/Flow, not the rules in general.