Badmojojojo and Kiramode have chosen the name Conflicting Dynasties and uploaded their first game using the newly revealed Dragon clan cards.

So it seems, like you guys said before, that one of the keys is the luck you have when revealing provinces... or maybe the winning wits is to evaluate the attacks counting on what could happen when the province is revealed...

and that is so much easier said than done...

Starting the game with the best of the 3 clan champions we have seen doesn't suck either.

Vs system!!! Great game XD

1 hour ago, Kakita Katai said:

Starting the game with the best of the 3 clan champions we have seen doesn't suck either.

I love the Dragon clan champion more than the other two. Very interesting card from a control aspect because he can change how people deploy, but also nice because of the different combos you can potentially rip off. I think it would be cool to use him with the discard guy to choke hands. You can also use him with the bow enhancement guy to neuter defenders.

Who holdings has dragon player at start??

7 minutes ago, Ikomagines said:

Who holdings has dragon player at start??

The neutral storehouse. It's ability is to sacrifice itself to draw a card. It's a better version of the Crane holding.

Nice work. Hope to join you guys soon

I'm pissed that Ashoka is now a twi'lek. Geez

Yeah, Kubernes! What's with all the trans-alien-species bending, yo?!

To be honest I really dislike how the provinces are playing out. Too many times game is decided by an Elemental Fury flip out of the blue. I understand the appeal of playing around with unknown information and it works in netrunner where you can take calculated risks(you know which cards can be where and you can choose not to run there when not prepared). Here however you need to go in(otherwise you usually lose because offense is king in this game at least for now) knowing that you have 50% chance to be totally screwed. The problem is most apparent with elemental fury and mori kuroi and swapping water/fire/air that can be key in late game for useless void for example.

Having 50% chance to get your ring swapped or 50% of nothing happening when you flip pilgrimage for example(as 3rd province) is a pretty huge rng.

edit: sorry for mistakes im on the phone now and cant correct them

edit: corrected

6 hours ago, kiramode said:

I love the Dragon clan champion more than the other two. Very interesting card from a control aspect because he can change how people deploy, but also nice because of the different combos you can potentially rip off. I think it would be cool to use him with the discard guy to choke hands. You can also use him with the bow enhancement guy to neuter defenders.

He is definitely stronger than Toturi and Hotaru. His ability warps whole game around him, every purchase makes opponent think so hard And it is not only that, his stats are so much better when compared to them xd

7 hours ago, BordOne said:

Here however you need to go in(otherwise you usually lose because offense is king in this game at least for now) knowing that you have 50% chance to be totally screwed.

Cards like Eager Scout are going to actually be potentially really handy in this game?

3 minutes ago, Brekekekiwi said:

Cards like Eager Scout are going to actually be potentially really handy in this game?

It's almost as if Scouting is a useful thing. It reminds me of the Battletech CCG, when scout 'Mechs became a useful way to avoid Subterfuge effects.

1 hour ago, Tonbo Karasu said:

It's almost as if Scouting is a useful thing. It reminds me of the Battletech CCG, when scout 'Mechs became a useful way to avoid Subterfuge effects.

It's almost as if you didn't play this game You can scout early but you don't have time for it when the next conflict can potentially end the game. And that is the example I gave.

10 hours ago, BordOne said:

To be honest I really dislike how the provinces are playing out. Too many times game is decided by an Elemental Fury flip out of the blue. I understand the appeal of playing around with unknown information and it works in netrunner where you can take calculated risks(you know which cards can be where and you can choose not to run there when not prepared). Here however you need to go in(otherwise you usually lose because offense is king in this game at least for now) knowing that you have 50% chance to be totally screwed. The problem is most apparent with elemental fury and mori kuroi and swapping water/fire/air that can be key in late game for useless void for example.

Well Mori Kuroi will be under the Phoenix player's stronghold every single time. No need to scout. you no it will be there so you are going to have play around it. That also means they won't be running pilgrimage. Lion will almost assuredly be running art of war in one of their 5 and it won't be under the stronghold but that means they aren't running Elemental Fury. Restoration of Balance and Night Raid are both fire effects so they can't show up in the same deck.

I haven't watched any of the play decks so I don't know what they are doing, but NONE of them are actual legal decks. We only have 3 full revealed neutral provinces (a Water, Void, and Fire one). We know what what Shameful Display does, but don't know what element it is (I'm betting its air meaning crane can't run it and Art of Peace. So we have not seen a single Earth province. So NONE of the games people have played have legal decks and I'm not sure what they are doing to alleviate this.

So from this I draw two conclusions. 1) Attacking provinces is going to reward the player who knows the card pool better. That player is going to know what cards his opponent potentially has and which ones he doesn't and is then going to make an educated guess on what the outcomes can be when he attacks. 2) No one (except playtesters) can say how provinces are playing out right now because no one is playing with a legal set.

3 hours ago, JRosen9 said:

Well Mori Kuroi will be under the Phoenix player's stronghold every single time. No need to scout. you no it will be there so you are going to have play around it. That also means they won't be running pilgrimage. Lion will almost assuredly be running art of war in one of their 5 and it won't be under the stronghold but that means they aren't running Elemental Fury. Restoration of Balance and Night Raid are both fire effects so they can't show up in the same deck.

Yup you are right about Mori Kuroi we only played 1 game with it when we wanted to try out "all clans together deck". I agree it will always go under stronghold. It doesn't mean they won't be running pilgrimage though cause it is an ok "normal" province.

About Art of War I am not entirely sure. It is a good province but as I said Elemental Fury has potential to win games. We will need to wait and see which one is more valuable in Lion deck. I can see it easily going both ways.

To be honest "discarding" provinces do not feel as problematic, maybe because it is up to you to decide which cards to discard hence you can attempt some kind of damage control as opposed to "let's pick the ring that is most useless for you".

3 hours ago, JRosen9 said:

I haven't watched any of the play decks so I don't know what they are doing, but NONE of them are actual legal decks. We only have 3 full revealed neutral provinces (a Water, Void, and Fire one). We know what what Shameful Display does, but don't know what element it is (I'm betting its air meaning crane can't run it and Art of Peace. So we have not seen a single Earth province. So NONE of the games people have played have legal decks and I'm not sure what they are doing to alleviate this.

Yeah I took that under consideration. I guess the biggest culprit in this is the Elemental fury so hopefully they will print some strong water provinces with slightly less randomness.

3 hours ago, JRosen9 said:

So from this I draw two conclusions. 1) Attacking provinces is going to reward the player who knows the card pool better. That player is going to know what cards his opponent potentially has and which ones he doesn't and is then going to make an educated guess on what the outcomes can be when he attacks. 2) No one (except playtesters) can say how provinces are playing out right now because no one is playing with a legal set.

1) Hm. You can know the card pool better. But when opponent is ahead, you need to chase him and he still has 2 provinces hidden with water under them you will unfortunately be often making a 4+ die roll on staying in the game or losing(because you rely on bowing/unbowing/dishonoring that key character. that is if elemental fury is as prevalent ofc).

2) I agree I was just sharing the impressions from my gameplay up to now.

13 hours ago, BordOne said:

To be honest I really dislike how the provinces are playing out. Too many times game is decided by an Elemental Fury flip out of the blue.

I don't think it's necessarily restricted to Elemental Fury; many of the effects are potentially game-breaking, and you really have to plan for the worst. Shameful Display can be game-altering early, but if you have a 3 strength character kicking around and your opponent is bowed out, he won't be able to trigger it and you can pop it in one shot, so go hunting for it!

My point here is that playing around your opponents provinces is going to be a key aspect of the game, and I can see why you're worried about that; at a tournament, you have no idea what provinces they are playing. While the card pool is small, it's less of an issue, but imagine 3 years from now when the province pool has expanded; it's going to be very difficult to predict what provinces an opponent is running. I can see it turning some people off the game, eventually. Personally, I don't mind it, but I wouldn't call it a selling feature of the game.

21 minutes ago, Casanunda said:

My point here is that playing around your opponents provinces is going to be a key aspect of the game, and I can see why you're worried about that; at a tournament, you have no idea what provinces they are playing. While the card pool is small, it's less of an issue, but imagine 3 years from now when the province pool has expanded; it's going to be very difficult to predict what provinces an opponent is running. I can see it turning some people off the game, eventually. Personally, I don't mind it, but I wouldn't call it a selling feature of the game.

I still feel elemental fury is the worst, Shameful Display is very strong but it doesn't destroy your whole game plan. It also needs a defending character to take full effect.

I agree that playing around provinces is going to be a key aspect of the game I am just not sure if it will be for the best. I guess it makes conflicts more interesting at least.

My biggest problem with elemental fury is that when push comes to shove, and you need to break your third province when chasing after opponent whom is ready to go after your stronghold soon, and you really need the particular ring effect to bow key character/dishonor and kill it/unbow yours you have a completly random choice. Go after province on the left or province on the right? If you choose wrongly the whole strategic part of the game is lost - you won't resolve that ring - you lost a coin flip and usually won't have chance on staying in the game, not even talking about winning it.

I feel in other situations Elemental fury is still ok.

It is just that I cannot think of anything worse than watching world tournament finals only to see a game coming down to a 4+ dice roll. Hopefully it will never happen.

I like the province uncertainty. It provides a natural defenders' advantage, which gives the game counterplay and prevents it being won by the player that gets the best draw.

13 minutes ago, Kitsu Seinosuke said:

I like the province uncertainty. It provides a natural defenders' advantage, which gives the game counterplay and prevents it being won by the player that gets the best draw.

Could you elaborate a bit more(not being smug)?

From my point of view it doesn't really help with countering a "lucky draw" since the unlucky opponent has the exact same chance of being punished. Also some "lucky draws" actually make you defend more in the early game - for example having Yokuni turn one is very strong yet during that round opponent will probably flip more of your provinces.

8 minutes ago, BordOne said:

My biggest problem with elemental fury is that when push comes to shove, and you need to break your third province when chasing after opponent whom is ready to go after your stronghold soon, and you really need the particular ring effect to bow key character/dishonor and kill it/unbow yours you have a completly random choice. Go after province on the left or province on the right? If you choose wrongly the whole strategic part of the game is lost - you won't resolve that ring - you lost a coin flip and usually won't have chance on staying in the game, not even talking about winning it.

I totally understand your complaints, but I suppose it underlines that a plan of action based solely upon getting a certain ring is always going to be unpredictable. Always plan for the worst and you won't feel so sore about having your dastardly plot be foiled by a province flip.

I should mention that one good thing that comes out of Elemental Fury is that it removes some of the advantage of going first, which I've found to be sizable so far (which is good for Way of the Unicorn; hurray!). If you could always bank on getting the ring you want when going first, it would make the advantage even greater, so I kind of like Elemental Fury mixing that up a bit.

37 minutes ago, BordOne said:

Yup you are right about Mori Kuroi we only played 1 game with it when we wanted to try out "all clans together deck". I agree it will always go under stronghold. It doesn't mean they won't be running pilgrimage though cause it is an ok "normal" province.

Actually it does mean they won't be running Pilgrimage. Both cards are void cards.

In regards to elemental fury, if that has a possibility of it being there, then you HAVE to plan that you will run into it. I would actually argue of the neutral effects so far, it actually has the least effect. Night raid could cause you to lose your hand which may mean not taking the province, Shameful can cause up to a 6 point swing in forces which may mean not taking the province, and Pilgrimage has a higher than average Province Strength which may mean not taking the province. Elemental Fury changes your ring benefit IF you win the conflict. If you lose the conflict it has no effect and unless your phoenix (or a few dragon cards) it has ZERO effect on the current conflict.

1 minute ago, BordOne said:

Could you elaborate a bit more(not being smug)?

Disclaimer: I haven't played much, so a lot of this is theory.

In nu5R, having good characters is temporary. Therefore, the player who has most characters on the table at the moment will be attacking hard to take advantage of the temporary advantage, while the other player will want to wait them out. This means that the attacker will normally be the stronger player.

If you attack into the wrong province, it can completely mess up your day. As a result, wise attackers should be cautious - for example making a scouting attack with Military to reveal the province before they make the real attack with Political.

This slows the attack down, which means that the imbalanced game state won't lead to a loss of the game before the weaker player has a chance to correct it.

3 minutes ago, JRosen9 said:

In regards to elemental fury, if that has a possibility of it being there, then you HAVE to plan that you will run into it. I would actually argue of the neutral effects so far, it actually has the least effect.

I would say Night Raid has been the least impactful so far in my games. The fact that they get to choose neuters it a little, and a number of times it's been flipped with only 1 or 2 attackers. Sure, it could be good, but I'd say Shameful Display > Pilgrimage > Elemental Fury > Night Raid so far, from my games. Shameful Display is obviously much better in the Lion vs. Crane matchup, though, and probably won't be as good when there are lower glory characters kicking around.