Quote

• When attacking a door, using an ability that affects a door or counting spaces to a door, the door is considered to be occupying each empty space with which it shares an edge.
• The spaces that share an edge with a door are the only spaces that are considered to be adjacent to that door. When declaring a melee attack targeting a door, the attacker must be in one of those spaces. If the attacker has Reach, he must be in or adjacent to one of those spaces.

(RRG, p.6: Attacking Objects)

I have some questions about attacking/damaging doors:

1. Assume two figures stand on the two spaces of one side of a door. Now I shoot one of these figures and activate Blast. Since none of the spaces are empty, Blast would not affect the door (Blast is an ability, so the door is not considered adjacent)?
2. Assume a figure is on a space adjacent to these two spaces (both are empty). I shoot that figure and activate Blast again. Now the door would be affected (but only once I suppose).
3. Now there is an empty space in front of that door, and I want to shoot the door directly. May I draw LoS to any two adjacent edges of that space? So I could target the door even if I can't draw LoS to the edge the door is on?

Melee attacks are a bit different: I have to be adjacent to the space the doors is considered to be occupying when I want to attack it with Reach.

Am I missing something? Is there a special reason why you don't have to draw LoS to the door? If I had not read this I would have ruled that a door is only occupying the to edges it stands on, so you have to draw LoS to one of these edges. Blast would work if you attack a figure on any of the adjacent spaces regardless if empty or not. Perhaps the reason is that you should be able to Blast the door when a figure is one space away?

1. Blast would affect the door, because the target figure and also the target space is adjacent to the door. (The "occupying empty spaces" is only used for abilities that need to count spaces to the door or draw line of sight to the door.)

Edit: 2. If the target space is not adjacent to the door, Blast does not affect the door.

3. Yes. You draw line of sight to the space the door occupies. (Special case: if you are adjacent to the door, you can draw line of sight to the door in your own space. Anything else would be silly, although it's not quite rules as written.)

Forget the occupying part of the rule for melee attacks and blast and cleave. Abilities that calls for adjacency only use the rule about which spaces are adjacent to the door.

See also:

The LoS when shooting doors still doesn't make sense to me: two figures stand in front of a door. RAW they can't shoot the door, because they couldn't draw LoS.

It should be made clear that you draw LoS directly to one edge the door actually is stand on.

Like said in the other thread, you can mostly play by RAW. In most cases you would first attack, then move to the space that was adjacent to the door. And this does not apply to melee attacks, just ranged, and it's somewhat thematic not to shoot a door so close that you can get shrapnel blowing up your own face.

17 minutes ago, Leuwart said:

It should be made clear that you draw LoS directly to one edge the door actually is stand on.

That is asking for a rules change, and with doors being already errata'ed once, I don't expect that to happen lightly.

I will send an eMail to FFG with that question then. ?

I thought that in the second situation (you shot a figure that is adjacent to the two spaces that are considered to be adjacent to the door) blast wouldn't work. Maybe I am misinterpreting the situation. Can somebody clarify...Thanks

On 6/29/2017 at 6:45 AM, Leuwart said:

The LoS when shooting doors still doesn't make sense to me: two figures stand in front of a door. RAW they can't shoot the door, because they couldn't draw LoS.

It should be made clear that you draw LoS directly to one edge the door actually is stand on.

You can draw LOS through the attacking figure. So pick any corner on the attacker's space, you can draw a line to the opposite corner and on along either side of the space to the adjacent corners.

15 hours ago, Whitebubble said:

I thought that in the second situation (you shot a figure that is adjacent to the two spaces that are considered to be adjacent to the door) blast wouldn't work. Maybe I am misinterpreting the situation. Can somebody clarify...Thanks

Think of it this way: for Blast and Cleave (abilities) the door essentially occupies four spaces (two on each side of it). So triggering Blast after attacking a figure with a space between it and the physical door itself will damage the door.

Note the first bullet point from the RRG in Leuwart's original post.

The door occupying spaces is not relevant for Blast, only adjacency.

Blast affects figures and objects adjacent to the target space. A space sharing an edge with the door is adjacent to the door and the door is adjacent to a space sharing an edge with the door. If the target space of the attack is any of the 4 spaces sharing an edge with the door, the door is adjacent to the target space, and is affected by Blast.

Yes, it seems case 2. was misread earlier.

Are you sure, a1bert?

"When attacking a door, using an ability that affects a door , or counting spaces to a door, the door is considered to be occupying each empty space with which it shares an edge."

" The Blast and Cleave keywords can affect objects . If a figure is in the same space as the token, the figure and token are considered adjacent for the purposes of Blast and Cleave"

I'm reading that as Blast and Cleave can hit the space with which the door shares an edge to damage the door.

Now that I'm thinking about it though, I recall this question on BGG before, and I remember a solid explanation to your point (I think from you or Clipper). I'm trying to find that thread to refresh myself, but no luck so far.

I am sure. Abilities that require adjacency only use the door adjacency rule. Only abilities that require line of sight or counting spaces use the "door occupies" rule.

https://boardgamegeek.com/article/19729034#19729034

There are a lot of threads about doors, even here...

Ah, I found the thread I was thinking off. I remember now.

https://boardgamegeek.com/article/25414445#25414445

Thanks!

EDIT: Yes I'm aware of all the door questions out there. This one stuck out in my mind because of the second question the person asked, and Clipper's explanation.

W[P][F]

D[P][E]

D[E][E]

D= Door

there are one empty space and one space with a Probe Droid adjacent to the door.

Does Fenn (F) have LOS to the door? He has LOS the e Empty space adjacent to the door, so is it ok?

Yes, Fenn has LoS to the door, distance 2, the empty space adjacent to the door.

Thanks, so Fenn doesn't need to have LOS to the "edge" of the door, just the Empty space adjacent to the door.

Regular line of sight and distance to one of the spaces the door "occupies" for the purposes of determining distance and line of sight.

When determining distance or line of sight, the door occupies an empty space that shares an edge with the door.

(And although not by RAW, if adjacent to the door, the attacker can target the door in the adjacent space. Anything else would be silly.)

On 21.7.2017 at 5:35 AM, Uninvited Guest said:

You can draw LOS through the attacking figure. So pick any corner on the attacker's space, you can draw a line to the opposite corner and on along either side of the space to the adjacent corners.

The attacking figure can trace LoS through itself, so it may attack an object that is on the same space as the attacking figure, that's correct.

But since the attacking figure stands next to the door, the door is not considered to be occupying that space and therefore can't be attacked.

There's also the rule that adjacent figures always have line of sight to each other, so it would not be that big of a stretch to apply it to objects as well, because game-mechanically there's no difference (both figures and objects can be targets).

(Also, the distance between adjacent figures/objects have been defined and confirmed by previous rulings to be 1 *). So even if the door would not occupy the spaces adjacent to the door due to them being empty, both line of sight and required accuracy would be well defined.)

*) Objects in the same space are not adjacent to non-companion figures, figures are explicitly allowed to attack figures in the same space, and the attack requires 0 adjacency. Companions have been defined to be adjacent to objects and figures in the same space, so attacking a companion in the same space requires 1 accuracy.