John Harper's "Blades in the Dark" RPG could have much in common with Bounty Hunters, and similar skulking ilk.

Has anyone tried to hack BitD for EotE et al? Would I be reinventing the wheel to try?

Something intrigues me about the possibilities of

1) Lairs and Turf Wars

2) Teamwork and Scores

3) Crew Advancement and Downtime

4) Inexpensive RPG collections including CRB, ND, and BitD .

5) Letting FFGs SW production "schedule" (sic) slide into the sunset, having doubts about their commitment to SWRPG long term (*cough* new rpg system *cough*)

Players at my LGS are unlikely to catch misspellings of Wookiee, and differences in vehicles, weapons, etc. manufactured aren't atop of player priorities. Therefore, Occam's razor shaves off a lot of purchases and superfluous material to better match my immediate playgroup's needs. Thoughts?

Disclosure: I am not affiliated with BitD nor Evil Hat Game nor John Harper; I just discovered some possible synergies playing thieves and murderhobos in the SW universe.

Well, got good news for you...

Their new system underscores my lack of faith in future SW content. To my point, I feel pwn'd by FFG for buying Endless Vigil AND No Disintegrations. Meh, I've Special Modifications, so why invest in the newest splatbook for engineers? What- to at long last play a Skakoan? Do I feel like FFG hears fans' posted messages maligning a lack of XYZ beloved species? Meh, no...in fact, I feel they wet the bed in this regard. I doubt I'll stick around long enough to see Ewoks, Gammoreans, Tusekn Raiders, etc. (waitforit- they'll all be in ONE new book).

Just looking for ways to meet my players' needs as the FFG SW line dies out from copying itself to death...

Copying itself? Copying what?

To be fair it isn't manditory to buy all the books anyway, I would actually encourage players to pick up career books they need

I think BitD would work for EotE styled campaigns super well, but it'd be a very different experience.

Eh...I've just started running a Campaign that seems to be fitting this profile, without modifying existing rules much...maybe less on the Murderhobo side, but definitely the criminal enterprise sort...8)

I'm not a super-fan of the FFG system (Being an old-school D6 Player) either, I work with what my friends are wanting to play.

15 hours ago, Blackbird888 said:

Copying itself? Copying what?

Well, one could make a "new" splatbook using repeated species and careers. Gand Heavy? Yup. Devaronian Pilot? Sure. Droid Slicer? Obviously.

Oh...and FFG cannot even legitimately copy itself. See "Lanniks" for more proof. Did we get any new downloaded species to replace the oversight? Nah- just shut up and give us your money for lots of repeats. Anyone staying within the AoR line got no new information unless they go to these forums; their Lanniks are neutered by comparison.

Sure, we needn't get all these repeats, especially if we stay in our lane. In other words, we won't get a repeated species OR career WITHIN a product line, like EotE or AoR. I'm waiting for Miralukas to have an inherent FR1 to help explain their blindness...

...meaning everyone will munchkin a rarer species ad nausea to cheat the use of FRs.

HappyDaze's, comments about FLT has 100% assured me to never use it (let alone BUY it). Weak Mandos, flimsy combat scenarios, and unbelievable Imperial responses = pass. Cool lizard monkies don't justify $30.

Endless Vigil had some serious editing problems with its new Force Power. Sure, droid "healing" may have been overpowered, but how about a download of where that talent WAS GOING TO FIT in the tree? If someone doesn't have the book, it won't make a lot of sense. However, maybe someone (looks around, whistles) wanted to have a Sentinel actually DO just that force power. Hinted, but...nah, it's just like a Lannik.

Moreso- why BUY any older product? I could hammer out just about anything via online sources for free. If I patiently wait, someone will spoil nearly all the coolest crunch -- WITH PICTURES -- of the latest book. FFG doesn't even care about lost sales for itself; why do I think they care about ME?!?

Either the systems align well within and among their lanes, or we should just stick to one CRB

...and OggDude's Character Generator (also found on FFGs community forums)

...and BeggingforXp for more free goodies

...and maybe what- two days after a product release to read and digest what someone spoils? I'll even get pictures, if I ask kindly. No oversight = no care.

Maybe this is why I am thinking of combining EotE with something more, because what I'm getting feels a microwaved fast-food burger from FFG.

...but I'm paying for a steak dinner, provided by The Mouse.

13 minutes ago, JawaJedi said:

...meaning everyone will munchkin a rarer species ad nausea to cheat the use of FRs.

No they won't. Not everyone plays to munchkin the rules, despite what you imply. Some of us like playing, *gasp* genuine, realistic characters for the setting, and see how they progress naturally.

And you don't have to give the Mirulaka an FR 1 rating as a natural trait. If the only natural thing they ALL get is the ability to see using the Force, and only some of them are able to actually wield the Force effectively, then it's simply a racial ability that let's them see. Besides, since it's simply a rule function added to completely negate a biological handicap, it's effectively of zero difference. They can't see, but they can see, the end. It's one of the more Mary Sue-esque types of character traits out there. You try to give a character a flaw to make them seem more real...but then you negate it entirely with a perk they have.

With the release of GENESYS, perhaps this explains the Endless Vigil Force Power editing miss. Maybe this explains a delay for Ghosts. Maybe their concern over their NEW IP is why we get more Separatist-based species as "heroes." In other words, SWRPG is now placed on the back-burner as the product line dwindles. FFG has a few more goodies up its sleeve (Jawas, I'm lookin' at you), but I am now seriously doubting FFG's ability to run from 3rd base onto home plate. They seem distracted, unaware or uncaring about their IP wantonly shared insomuch as players needn't actually BUY anything if not GMing a game, and accepting of numerous repeats, editing problems, plot holes, etc. in their books.

Just now, KungFuFerret said:

No they won't. Not everyone plays to munchkin the rules, despite what you imply. Some of us like playing, *gasp* genuine, realistic characters for the setting, and see how they progress naturally.

And you don't have to give the Mirulaka an FR 1 rating as a natural trait. If the only natural thing they ALL get is the ability to see using the Force, and only some of them are able to actually wield the Force effectively, then it's simply a racial ability that let's them see. Besides, since it's simply a rule function added to completely negate a biological handicap, it's effectively of zero difference. They can't see, but they can see, the end. It's one of the more Mary Sue-esque types of character traits out there. You try to give a character a flaw to make them seem more real...but then you negate it entirely with a perk they have.

6

This is fair. I accept how not everyone munchkins a character.

I don't want to devolve into a species redux, but I also see your points about how this species could be different. I was trying to illustrate a point to absurdism based on what others have projected as Miralukas. Let's agree that Miralukas present an interesting species design challenge, even with reskins and articles written by FFG folks about species creation from scratch. I'll stop commenting about these folk, and instead reaffirm my lack of faith - disturbing as it may seem - in FFG's ability to deliver what they once promised. I do not think the GENESYS distraction is superfluous and feel it needs to be addressed because it's negatively affecting current FFG product; it's not as good as it has been.

Why did anyone think it'd be a good idea to release Ghosts outside of October/Halloween? I'll eat my hat if it doesn't come out JUST before October (giving GMs enough prep time).

19 minutes ago, JawaJedi said:

Blackbird888, your comments about FLT has 100% assured me to never use it (let alone BUY it). Weak Mandos, flimsy combat scenarios, and unbelievable Imperial responses = pass. Cool lizard monkies don't justify $30.

I have no idea what you're on about.

7 minutes ago, Blackbird888 said:

I have no idea what you're on about.

Therefore, I wanted to see what other goodness I might yet salvage from FFG books. Based on my playgroup, I looked at something that seems popular at the moment, and seems easily hackable to Bounty Hunters, Smugglers, etc..

I misattributed HappyDaze's opinions of FLT with Blackbird888. My apologies.

Just now, JawaJedi said:

Meh- re=read every negative comment you wrote about Friends Like These. They helped sway me. I can't make you remember what you wrote, but your assessment as a prolific community poster validates your opinions of the game in my mind.

Therefore, I wanted to see what other goodness I might yet salvage from FFG books. Based on my playgroup, I looked at something that seems popular at the moment, and seems easily hackable to Bounty Hunters, Smugglers, etc..

I don't remember. In fact, I think I've barely brought anything up about Friends Like These since it dropped.

You're thinking of somebody else.

1 minute ago, Blackbird888 said:

I don't remember. In fact, I think I've barely brought anything up about Friends Like These since it dropped.

You're thinking of somebody else.

Hmmm...perhaps- HappyDaze seems quite disappointed, and maybe I mis-remembered HDs comments with some of yours. My apologies, Blackbird888.

Hmmm...learning from FFG, I can recognize a mistake and make attempts to fix 'em . FFG just seems to ignore errors or oversights, or reprints. Booo.

2 minutes ago, JawaJedi said:

Let's agree that Miralukas present an interesting species design challenge

But we don't agree. I don't think they are anything special really, from a design standpoint. The "flaw" they are given, is immediately negated by the "boon" they are also given. They don't become an entire species of Daredevils, they can just see with the Force. A quick scan of wookiepedia shows they get the ability to see jedi/sith, but I wouldn't be surprised if that falls to the editing floor. So aside from that, they are simply able to see as normal, despite not having eyes. So again, I don't really see the issue for FFG to make them. Their ability writeup could be something as simple as:

"The Miraluka are born without eyes, but due to their species connection to the Force, they evolved to see using it, instead of visible light. As a result, the Miralukans do not suffer penalties due to blindness or darkness modifiers, and are immune to forms of visual manipulation or stun (some kind of hypnotic display for example). "

Boom, done. Nothing fancy, like "Auto FR 1 for all Miralukan", or "They are now Daredevil", just "They don't suffer from blindness/darkness penalties. Maybe give them a boost die to Perception checks based on sound or something if you must give them a benefit to it, or a free rank in Perception. Free ranks in skills due to species abilities is a pretty common writeup in this game line, I see no reason the Miralukan should be any different.

I get that you are just using them as an example, but I don't think your statements about the quality of material being made, and the future products from FFG is correct, based on what's been done so far. Sure, you can not like the material, that's fine, that's an opinion, and I don't argue opinions.

Just now, KungFuFerret said:

I get that you are just using {Miraluka] as an example, but I don't think your statements about the quality of material being made, and the future products from FFG is correct, based on what's been done so far. Sure, you can not like the material, that's fine, that's an opinion, and I don't argue opinions.

1

Thanks. Yeah, just forget that I mentioned Miralukas since that design train derails the main point I'm hoping to make:

I don't think FFG seems to care about their own IP. Why?

* We get repeated species and careers instead of new ones. Are FFG staff so lazy to ignore an entire UNIVERSE of possibilities? Wouldn't new content spur more new books? Want to investigate a crime scene? Congratulations: one of two rules books has you covered. Likewise, droid building x2 (Fully Op & Spec Mods). I may be an idiot if I buy both books unless a completionist of have a specific adventure in mind.

* Serious editing errors or oversights. These include mistakes in species, force talents, plot designs, and print/ship/in development delays. Again, Expect Ghosts by Halloween.

* The Sacred Cow: ABSOLUTE COMPLETE FFG CRUNCH SPOILS FOR FREE, ON THEIR OWN WEBSITES. Yeah, ain't nobody touching this one out of fear of admitting they copy or paste others IP wantonly with impunity. Aside from owning the CRB, nobody could convince me an entire party couldn't be made using new careers and species from other spoiled books by consulting...well...just HERE in the forums. Why does nobody seem concerned about taking money out of FFG staff's pockets? Isn't this called stealing?!?!?!?!?!

So, if THEY don't care about their products, WHY SHOULD/WOULD I? Good luck with GENESYS at the expense of FFG SWRPG. Yeah, they're nearing the finish line, so flock new stuff since the old stuff (i.e. mistakes) seems to cut the mustard.

OK, first off, remember that the SW RPG is divided into three different games (AoR, EotE, F&D). Yes, they are cross compatible , but they are all still designed to be self-contained . As such, if they want a given species to be properly available to all three systems, particularly for those groups that are only playing one system , then they must reprint that species for each system . You will note that reprints of species and such does not occur within a given game.

Yes, Tramp Graphics, I already mentioned this fact. Care to chime in on the notion of stolen IP by users of this forum?

@JawaJedi Concerning Reprinted Content: The simple fact is that you can't make all of the people happy all of the time. Just last month someone was raging about content getting released in EotE when they only play AoR. Personally, I think FFG does an excellent job of minimizing reprints across their three lines without completely ignoring the people who only play one line. Honestly, given their absolutely crazy release schedule FFG maintains, I feel like their content has been maintaining a surprisingly high quality. Compare the last year of release to something like D&D 3.5 during their book a month phase the the difference is dramatic. I suppose they could up their quality by making their books more expensive and less frequent, but personally, I'd rather deal with the current release schedule and a few minor typos/reprints.

On a personal note, I recognize that Jawajedi is likely just being a troll, what with all his bold, caps and strings of !?!. Sometimes though, it's worth tossing out a little troll feed just in case a reasonable person exists deep down.

43 minutes ago, JawaJedi said:

* We get repeated species and careers instead of new ones. Are FFG staff so lazy to ignore an entire UNIVERSE of possibilities? Wouldn't new content spur more new books? Want to investigate a crime scene? Congratulations: one of two rules books has you covered. Likewise, droid building x2 (Fully Op & Spec Mods). I may be an idiot if I buy both books unless a completionist of have a specific adventure in mind.

Some people find it hard to believe, but through interviews, the developers seem to have what most people call an "artistic vision." While I admit to finding some of the repeats irksome, when I look at it from a thematic standpoint, I can generally agree with the decision to include such and such species in such and such book. At least, the writers used to describe the different species make an effort to develop the species in a fitting way; but of course, nobody gives a crap about the fluff.

And the repeated specializations are pretty few and far between--the bulk are found in Age of Rebellion, and one in a single AoR career book. At the end of the theoretical release of all career books, we're looking at 26 different specializations, across 18 different careers. Many of the repeats are practical (why reinvent Pilot for Ace, when Smuggler's Pilot is perfectly functional?)

Quote

* Serious editing errors or oversights. These include mistakes in species, force talents, plot designs, and print/ship/in development delays. Again, Expect Ghosts by Halloween.

If you expect perfection, prepare for disappointment. I consider this to be an aspect of a thing called 'being human,' which most Internet tough guys have no concept of. It is annoying when errors like this crop up, but when brought to their attention, the developers seem quick to provide the correct information.

I also think it's a byproduct of being overworked. The handful of developers working on this game seem to have a considerable amount of other projects they are working on as well.

Quote

* The Sacred Cow: ABSOLUTE COMPLETE FFG CRUNCH SPOILS FOR FREE, ON THEIR OWN WEBSITES. Yeah, ain't nobody touching this one out of fear of admitting they copy or paste others IP wantonly with impunity. Aside from owning the CRB, nobody could convince me an entire party couldn't be made using new careers and species from other spoiled books by consulting...well...just HERE in the forums. Why does nobody seem concerned about taking money out of FFG staff's pockets? Isn't this called stealing?!?!?!?!?!

In this case, I know for a pretty sure deal that the developers are aware of the spoiler threads, and most on here buy the books even after the spoiler threads. The fact that they are continuously reprinting the books seems to imply that it's not harming their sales much. And only the totally morally bankrupt would do as you say and never buy the books.

22 minutes ago, JawaJedi said:

Yes, Tramp Graphics, I already mentioned this fact. Care to chime in on the notion of stolen IP by users of this forum?

4 minutes ago, Blackbird888 said:

Some people find it hard to believe, but through interviews, the developers seem to have what most people call an "artistic vision." While I admit to finding some of the repeats irksome, when I look at it from a thematic standpoint, I can generally agree with the decision to include such and such species in such and such book. At least, the writers used to describe the different species make an effort to develop the species in a fitting way; but of course, nobody gives a crap about the fluff.

And the repeated specializations are pretty few and far between--the bulk are found in Age of Rebellion, and one in a single AoR career book. At the end of the theoretical release of all career books, we're looking at 26 different specializations, across 18 different careers. Many of the repeats are practical (why reinvent Pilot for Ace, when Smuggler's Pilot is perfectly functional?)

If you expect perfection, prepare for disappointment. I consider this to be an aspect of a thing called 'being human,' which most Internet tough guys have no concept of. It is annoying when errors like this crop up, but when brought to their attention, the developers seem quick to provide the correct information.

I also think it's a byproduct of being overworked. The handful of developers working on this game seem to have a considerable amount of other projects they are working on as well.

In this case, I know for a pretty sure deal that the developers are aware of the spoiler threads, and most on here buy the books even after the spoiler threads. The fact that they are continuously reprinting the books seems to imply that it's not harming their sales much. And only the totally morally bankrupt would do as you say and never buy the books.

Also, to add to what Blackbird said, the information people post on this board is actually marked in the books as being allowed to be copied (for personal use, not for profit).

3 minutes ago, Blackbird888 said:

In this case, I know for a pretty sure deal that the developers are aware of the spoiler threads, and most on here buy the books even after the spoiler threads. The fact that they are continuously reprinting the books seems to imply that it's not harming their sales much. And only the totally morally bankrupt would do as you say and never buy the books.

I totally agree. I've been roleplaying for 20ish years now. In that time I have been in groups with roleplayers from all walks of life. While I've seen people playing with photocopied sections of rules, I have never once known somebody who loved a game and yet was perfectly happy playing with photocopies indefinitely. FFG understands this and is playing for the long game. Spoiler threads are like tossing bait in the water. Sure you may waste a little bait at first, but that's more than made up for by the attention it draws. Spoiler threads get people talking about what they've seen and that talk is what sells books. It's the same reason why they release official spoilers to all the books prior to launch. It's not like this is some darknet forum. If FFG didn't want a thread spoiling things they could and would just delete the post or close the thread.

I apologize if I sound like a troll. I'm just seriously disappointed. I stand at a crossroads with FFG.

I bought into the line because of the genre. (Mistakenly?) I bought all three CRBs and a lot of careers and other splatbooks. In hindsight, I feel foolish. Why?

Scouts, Drivers, Heavies, Pilots, Slicers and Mechanics are all repeated to date. The lines aren't done. SIX careers reprinted? This seems like a lack of imagination on FFGs' part, especially considering we've a galaxy of possibilities. Instead, even Droid Specialist and Droid Tech are close but still DIFFERENT. Likewise, Investigator and Skip Tracer. Why couldn't similar tweaks be given to repeated careers? I can appreciate how their different starting career dictates their ultimate abilities. In all seriousness- IS THIS TOO MUCH TO ASK? It may be, given the shiny new GENESYS rpg on the horizon.

Similarly- species.

I CAN accept how we'd have zero repeats WITHIN the line. Okay, but doesn't this just push us into picking ONE of the CRB/systems and ignoring(?) the rest?

I'm scared. Maybe the GENESYS launch rattled me into believing FFG is abandoning the heart of the game. When we have some misses with editing (they have editors, right?), repeats of species/careers, and shipments hanging in dead air, I question what's going on.

I think most agree that the art is lovely and fits the fluff of the content. Fonts are sometimes a problem due to readability; I'm in this camp of hating small, blurry print in my older age. I'd magnify my pdf of the books, except there seem to be speculative problems that the books would be reprehensible pirated. So just come here and get your fix instead of a download. Yes, it's morally problematic to copy stuff? YES. Is it problematic to be the ones posting copywritted material? Ditto- where's the outrage?

TL;DR: I feel like FFG is slipping as they unveil Genesys. Should I just switch systems now? Will the quality be better as we finish?