It sounds like most negative play experiences for destiny revolve around decks that produce 7-9 damage on the first turn and are able to kill off characters before they can activate.

What if we did not allow damage to be dealt on the first turn.

how would this affect the game and how would player's respond. would everyone just want to go second and get the two shield?

I think mill might see a huge power boost, because you wouldn't even have to worry about dice mitigation and you could just go for gaining as many resources as possible to play out all your Imperial Inspections, Blackmails, etc.

The decks that would take a big hit are decks that aim to do damage quickly like Rey and both Vaders. PoeMaz would actually likely benefit, because you wouldn't have to worry about damage (or anything else) the first round and you could play out Fast Hands, Planetary Uprising, and stock up on Hit and Run and plenty of good supports for Poe to pitch round 2 and do tons of inescapable damage.

i mean the very first TURN. not round. the game only lasts a few rounds by design. but the first turn damage spike feels wrong.

58 minutes ago, TylerTT said:

What if we did not allow damage to be dealt on the first turn?

Nothing, very first turn is either going to be a Character rolling dice into a pool or throwing down an Upgrade.

The only character that can do damage the first turn is Rey. It seems like less work to just ban Rey if you absolutely hate her.

Keep in mind the big four meta lists right now are Poe/Maz, Vader/Raider, Vader/Kylo, and Palpatine, so you're not getting rid of the things people are the most sick of seeing. I know it's annoying to lose a character before doing anything, but Rey has to get an unbelievably good roll to kill anybody turn one, because you don't have actions for rerolls unless you get two Vibroknives, and even then the odds aren't great. If Rey were so annoying and oppressive, she'd have a bigger chunk of the meta.

Also keep in mind that the reason Rey is so good is that Finn is so bad. They wanted new players to get a chance to play, and if they give them Finn, it's only fair they get Rey. It's the same problem as with Biggs in X-Wing - even if you think the character should be nerfed, it'll never happen to a core set character.

18 minutes ago, Kieransi said:

The only character that can do damage the first turn is Rey. It seems like less work to just ban Rey....

Ummm, you ever play PoeMaz, turn 1 hit and run, activate Poe, activate Maz, resolve 2 dice....

That being said, I disagree with your turn 1 proposal.

4 minutes ago, Bigulf said:

Ummm, you ever play PoeMaz, turn 1 hit and run, activate Poe, activate Maz, resolve 2 dice....

That being said, I disagree with your turn 1 proposal.

You'd have to roll a natural two specials on Poe and then have two supports/upgrades that deal 4 or so damage in hand. The odds of that are astoundingly low.

Also, it wasn't my proposal and I don't think I agreed with it either, so you might want to clarify to whom your second paragraph is adressed.

even with the people above I dont see any damage on turn 1, Poe maz and rey are NOT doing damage with their first action, just because they get extra actions doesnt change that. They are still not doing damage on their first action of a round. Honestly there just needs to be more reasons to build a deck that DOESNT go super fast, and still does damage to me the trick there would be something that would make a character survive to the end of hte round regardless of damage or something...

Perhaps a character that can nominate a value and remove a card from his opponents hand when it activates?

Ok cool thanks for the feedback sounds like a non issue.

I don't play enough. I just hear about characters dying on the first turn and think it's ridiculous.

When people say characters dying on the first turn, I don't think they really mean first action. While it's technically possible to kill someone on the first action, it requires a ridiculous amount of luck/perfect rolls/perfect draws. It is kind of disgusting when it happens, but honestly it's more an issue with action cheating in general. Preventing damage on the first action wouldn't really do much; it'd just mean it happens on the second action. But I do think they need to do something about the current imbalance in how speed works.

A lot of the big decks can kill stuff the first round. It's not just Poe or Rey, any deck can get really lucky. The annoying thing about Poe and Rey is that if they do get a perfect roll, there's no real way to counter it, whereas Palpatine can get a perfect roll and still get the dice controlled.

The Rey path to round 1 victory is actually pretty low odds, because unless you draw two Vibroknife/Hotshot blasters along with Force Speed, you won't get any rerolls as part of your action chain. To activate the other character in your deck, you need to spend an action again, so once all your dice are in the pool, you only have one more action, so anything you can't resolve can get dice controlled.

The Poe path to round 1 victory is actually even lower odds, because he needs both dice to roll a special and have Hit and Run along with some good supports in hand. If none of that happens, he's actually pretty vulnerable.

The odds are actually just about as good that Vader will kill you round 1, because he can just get really high damage rolls and you might not draw any of your dice control. The odds of that are just about as good.

I think that a lot of the problems with speed are exaggerated. Slow decks actually seem to do pretty well, such as Unkar/DeathTrooper/Trooper, or Phasma/Bala/Trooper, or even the classic 4-character swarm.

I get the frustration... really I do! But here is the thing, the very rules that allow the decks that annoy you allow you to build decks the disrupt and give those (and other decks) fits. I honestly think people are too hung up on upgrades right now and are overlooking dice control. Supports also are woefully underutilized.

Most people I play and talk with would quickly spend their two resources on a shinny new upgrade for a character rather than dice mitigation. We must go back to the ancient words of Mr. Miyagi...

On 6/28/2017 at 4:45 PM, TylerTT said:

would everyone just want to go second and get the two shield?

This is already incredibly common. Many decks don't require a specific battlefield to function.

8 hours ago, Stone37 said:

We must go back to the ancient words of Mr. Miyagi...

I thought it was Amanal San, your deck, like grape, go squish!