53 minutes ago, shosuko said:

If you're going Dragon with Crane splash, try Duelist Training. It's just 1 influence, so it helps offset the expensive HoF 3, and it actually give the ability to the character it attaches to so you can use it twice with WotD. Togashi Yokuni could probably make quick work of any army with 2 of those duels AND 2 uses of a copied ability...

Yeah, I considered duelist training, but there were other things that I just wanted more from crane. Right now I've got 1x height of fashion, 2x admit defeat, 2x above question, and 2x the perfect gift. All that will most likely change come testing (or even when more stuff is revealed), but I felt like those were more relevant to what I was wanting to do, the only iffy one was height of fashion, and if I dropped that I'd probably get one more above question and one more the perfect gift (although, given that I'm unsure how much card draw I'll really need, I'll likely drop perfect gift for duelist training if it proves redundant).

13 minutes ago, psychie said:

Yeah, I considered duelist training, but there were other things that I just wanted more from crane. Right now I've got 1x height of fashion, 2x admit defeat, 2x above question, and 2x the perfect gift. All that will most likely change come testing (or even when more stuff is revealed), but I felt like those were more relevant to what I was wanting to do, the only iffy one was height of fashion, and if I dropped that I'd probably get one more above question and one more the perfect gift (although, given that I'm unsure how much card draw I'll really need, I'll likely drop perfect gift for duelist training if it proves redundant).

Yeah Above Question is really good. I would want to splash that into Dragon.

Admit Defeat is a solid add - I think 1-2x is best since it's more situational. We only see 3 clans so far, and against Crane or Dragon it's more useful, against Lion it may not matter as much. Right now the card looks good though.

The Perfect Gift depends... As Dragon you want conflict cards, I may even be willing to lose 1-2 honor in the first round to draw deep... I haven't played yet so it's only theory on my side. That looks like a good card if you want to be cautious with honor but still draw more. The problem with that card is that IT is a card in your hand... so you are paying 0 and giving up 1 of your card draws to give you and your opponent a card draw. I might just consider putting in a card worth drawing into it's place instead.

Again - I haven't actually played yet, so this is simply conjecture from me.

It seems Dragon will focus more on attachments than the other clans. Having one big powerhouse to tear through your opponent can be fun but the risk is high if your opponent can neutralize them.

The Kitsuki Investigator has a lot of potential. Making an opponent discard a random card is nice but having the option to select the card they get rid of can be devastating.

Togashi seems interesting but "copy an ability" powers rarely work out for me. It's nice that you have the option to copy one of your own characters.

I'm curious to see how useful the duelists ability will be. Chances are you will only be using it on similar or weaker characters.

The thing with perfect gift is that it isn't as simple as drawing cards, I look at the top five cards of my deck, pick the best one, take it, and then shuffle (I like shuffling), and I get to look at the top five cards of my opponents deck, I get to pick the worst one, stick him with it, and then he has to shuffle away the good cards that I skipped over. If it were as simple as I draw a card, you draw a card, then I would agree with you. Also, playing a card to draw a card is a classic for card cycling, and if I really need specific cards (like, say my weapons and whatnot), then cards that replace themselves tend to be better than ones that are generically useful. Then again, I've always loved playing fast cycling decks with tonnes of card draw, so I may be biased by my preferred style and mistaking it for actual mechanical advantage...

1 minute ago, TechnoGolem said:

The Kitsuki Investigator has a lot of potential. Making an opponent discard a random card is nice but having the option to select the card they get rid of can be devastating.

I'm curious to see how useful the duelists ability will be. Chances are you will only be using it on similar or weaker characters.

I think if you're dueling and not bully dueling, especially with the new dueling mechanic, you're doing it wrong. And on the kitsuki investigator, the part about seeing their hand is awesome, discard or no, and is very flavorful for the kitsuki.

7 hours ago, Ultimatecalibur said:

Yeah, aity lot of theorycrafters may be overestimating the power of Doji Challenger and underestimating Niten Master's ability to be used in multiple conflicts. Set up right a Niten Master might be able to win 3 battles solo if you start with a political conflict and have 2 weapons in hand.

Well some of these 'theorycrafters' have already played around 20 games and at least have some experiences they can base their statements on as opposed to people only posting on the forums who are really just that - theorycrafters

That being said I was more focusing on how overstatted Doji challenger is rather than Niten master being weak. He still doesn't strike me as particularly strong 4 cost(rather than average) though considering how little weapons have been revealed thus far and most of them being restricted

And I am defenitely not overvaluing dojis ability if you feel otherwise I encourage you to play with it

I kinda wish I could do some testing, but as far as I know I don't have anyone nearby with whom I can do so, and until there's some kinda online stuff I have to wait 'til gencon.

1 minute ago, psychie said:

I kinda wish I could do some testing, but as far as I know I don't have anyone nearby with whom I can do so, and until there's some kinda online stuff I have to wait 'til gencon.

There's a module for Tabletop Simulator available on the Discord group. It's already updated with today's cards. And I believe TTS is still on sale on Steam for $10 If you don't already have it.

20 minutes ago, BordOne said:

That being said I was more focusing on how overstatted Doki challenger is rather than Niten master being weak. He still doesn't strike me as particularly strong 4 cost though considering how little weapons have been revealed thus far and most of them being restricted

And I am defenitely not overvaluing dojis ability if you if you feel otherwise i encourage you to play with it

Doji Challenger has been a very good card in the Lion matchup in my games, no question. Like you say, anyone who disagrees should really play the card just to see what it can do. That being said, I think the card may end up being less relevant against Dragon, just because their characters are much more well-rounded.

Originally, I thought that Niten Master would be on the weaker side of things, but in my first play, I dropped it first turn with 2 Fine Katana in hand (bit of a lucky pull). Needless to say, I wasn't disappointed. It can be great, just not always. But hey, you always have the option of playing it or not, if you don't have the cards, play out other characters.

6 minutes ago, Zesu Shadaban said:

There's a module for Tabletop Simulator available on the Discord group. It's already updated with today's cards. And I believe TTS is still on sale on Steam for $10 If you don't already have it.

I'll look into that, but it'll likely be awhile before I can do that, I'm kinda thin on cash right now and until I get a job I can't spare even $10 on game stuff.

Also, I've never been on discord, would I navigate it like a forum?

1 hour ago, Casanunda said:

Doji Challenger has been a very good card in the Lion matchup in my games, no questalion. Like you say, anyone who disagrees should really play the card just to see what it can do. That being said, I think the card may end up being less relevant against Dragon, just because their characters are much more well-rounded.

Originally, I thought that Niten Master would be on the weaker side of things, but in my first play, I dropped it first turn with 2 Fine Katana in hand (bit of a lucky pull). Needless to say, I wasn't disappointed. It can be great, just not always. But hey, you always have the option of playing it or not, if you don't have the cards, play out other characters.

I don't know if it makes challenger weaker it rather changes his role from often tapping dash characters to mostly using his conflict to pull one overbuffed character which might be actually stronger aginst dragon - you dont get to win the conflict but you deny much more rescources.

And ofc niten challenger is great with two fine katanas but how often will you get that pull once every 5 games(edit: more like once in 10 I guess)? unless ofc they reveal more weapons

6 minutes ago, psychie said:

Also, I've never been on discord, would I navigate it like a forum?

Sort of, there's a number of topic- based "channels" that act like forum threads, except more broad in scope and they're essentially long run-on chat conversations. There's options to choose which channels you get notifications for though, and you can use @username to mention a specific person and have them notified that they were mentioned. They also have clan-restricted channels and direct messaging, so you have the option to speak privately with just your fellow clan members or specific individuals.

Has anyone else decided that Kazue is going to eat wandering Ronin for breakfast?

I was actually thinking yokuni attaching kazue and copying wandering ronin would be awesome. Now that I think about it, just kazue on ronin would be decent, as it would be a means of keeping him relevant.

Yokuni is really a Scorpion Ninja.

We invite the Kitsuki Investigator to Ryoko Owari

and we gonna steal some Kitsuki Method.

Great previews, Dragon retain their ability to confuse with a lot of sequence timing and decision-making to give their opponent migraines. Awesome.

3 hours ago, Tam Palso said:

Just use Ancestral Daisho and Let Go. Drop the weapon, returns to hand, equip and Ready Niten Master. The Daisho doesn't even need to be on Niten, it could be on another character.

Ah, the ol' "janky" Dragon combos are back.

Edit: Ah, it doesn't work. Not a big loss, I'd say.

30 minutes ago, Togashi Gao Shan said:

Ah, the ol' "janky" Dragon combos are back.

Or not, because Let Go would discard Ancestral Daisho, as the ancestral keyword only returns the item to your hand when the card it is attached to is discarded, it has no effect when the attachment itself is targeted for discard.

8 hours ago, shosuko said:

Probably because Kazue and Raitsugu reek of Wasting Disease... Have the Dragon already opened a Black Scroll?? haha

That's a bit before my time, but I think it's cause I'm hoping that there is some Scorpion discard shenanigans that are splashable so I can go in on some hand control crap straight out the box. Or maybe it's because my old ideas have me thinking that the Dragon clan isn't really a 'control' clan, and yet they have some pretty nice ways of screwing with the other guy. And if the Dragon get toys like that, what are the REAL control monsters gonna look like...

6 hours ago, shosuko said:

Just dragon and neutral you have 6 weapon cards in your deck. With a 40 card deck that is over 10% of your deck that are weapons already. You start with 4 drawn to start the game, this gives you a decent chance to already have 1 of these. Dragon is a clan that I think may be willing to lose 2-3 honor to draw deep (not against Lion) to stretch for more conflict cards depending on the board state. I don't think it's unrealistic to expect this play to be a staple of Dragon play, at least out of the core set. It isn't likely to be a turn 1 combo, but it could easily be a turn 2-3 double province + defense power play.

6 or 9 weapon cards, 4 cards drawn in the initial hand, AND ability to mulligan your hand to fish for at least one weapon isn't all that conditional. This is also a faction with a Agasha Swordsmith.

17 minutes ago, WHW said:

6 or 9 weapon cards, 4 cards drawn in the initial hand, AND ability to mulligan your hand to fish for at least one weapon isn't all that conditional. This is also a faction with a Agasha Swordsmith.

If you mulligan every single card from both dynasty flips and conflict draw you get around 36% chance of having Niten Master and at least one weapon in starting hand with 6 weapons in your deck. If you have 9 by borrowing from some other clan you get 42%. Not disagreeing just adding some numbers.

That being said I don't think you will be aggresively mulliganing for this combo.

Thoughts about splashing Lion into Dragon? Guidance of the Ancestors would give you 9 reusable attachements - Kitsuki Method (+2 Pol, 1 Fate), Ancestral Daisho (+2 Mil, 1 Fate) and 2 GotA (+1 Pol +1 Mil, 1 Fate). If you go the "pimp my 0 Fate Turbo Dragon, smash something, and then reuse it", it allows you basically turn any of your characters into a +3 / +3 for a Price of 3 Fate. Sounds like a nice way to turn those low Fate cost characters into threats.

The question is, what else would you spend influence on? 3 x Ready for Battle?

Oh, Master of Spear has really funny interaction with Mirumoto Prodigy, functioning basically like an alternative to Admit Defeat.

3 hours ago, BordOne said:

Well some of these 'theorycrafters' have already played around 20 games and at least have some experiences they can base their statements on as opposed to people only posting on the forums who are really just that - theorycrafters

20 games of a basically one of 49 match ups and that is without factoring in how each deck can slash cards from 5+ more sources and what can be taken from those sources can vary heavily.

Any claims of expertise from current play experience is heavily flawed and is little more than partially supported theorycrafting. Anyone currently claiming Lion, Crane or Dragon are weak/overpowered after playing any number of games without access to the other 4 clans and the full neutral pool is making flawed theories.

3 hours ago, BordOne said:

And I am defenitely not overvaluing dojis ability if you feel otherwise I encourage you to play with it

You are overvaluing the ability because you are basing it's capabilities on a very limited number of matches of a single match type. Harpoon is good but treating it as a guaranteed bow is very flawed.

4 minutes ago, BordOne said:

If you mulligan every single card from both dynasty flips and conflict draw you get around 36% chance of having Niten Master and at least one weapon in starting hand with 6 weapons in your deck. If you have 9 by borrowing from some other clan you get 42%. Not disagreeing just adding some numbers.

That being said I don't think you will be aggresively mulliganing for this combo.

What I like about the Dragon is that it seems I don't need to desperately mulligan for That One Combo, but instead I can look at the Dynasty and look at the Conflict and go "oh, so it's this power play this time". If you don't draw that Niten Master and weapons, you probably got something else that's snazzy.

12 minutes ago, Ultimatecalibur said:

20 games of a basically one of 49 match ups and that is without factoring in how each deck can slash cards from 5+ more sources and what can be taken from those sources can vary heavily.

Well it might be just 20 games but it is still better than none and surely doesn't make me a "theorycrafter" as compared to somebody who hasn't played any.

12 minutes ago, Ultimatecalibur said:

Any claims of expertise from current play experience is heavily flawed and is little more than partially supported theorycrafting. Anyone currently claiming Lion, Crane or Dragon are weak/overpowered after playing any number of games without access to the other 4 clans and the full neutral pool is making flawed theories.

I didn't claim any expertise so please dont put words in my mouth. The only thing I said is that Niten Master is average in my opinion and Doji Challenger is overstatted which she clearly is just by looking at 3 and 4 drops released that far. I am positive ffg won't release another character with this kind of stats at 3 fate cost without some kind of weakness or situational ability and certainly not with a strong one.

12 minutes ago, Ultimatecalibur said:

You are overvaluing the ability because you are basing it's capabilities on a very limited number of matches of a single match type. Harpoon is good but treating it as a guaranteed bow is very flawed.

Well good thing I didn't treat it as one.