In my area we have a love of missile boats. Whether it is MC30's, Demolisher, or whatever else, they just pervade our meta. I know it is because I live in a competitive area, and black dice ships swing those big tournament wins that you need to win. In our recent store champs, 2 of the top 3 were MC30 spams. That said, I have been trying to think of a fleet that closes the lid on these ships, while at the same time not having glaring weaknesses to other fleets. In order to one shot a MC30, you need 7 damage and 2 accuracies for the redirects after they resolve their evades. This is my very very rough idea for attaining that, and I figured I would toss it out there and see what the critical forum eyes thought. In early testing, I was able to one shot a mid range MC30 10 of 10 times assuming a Leia CF dial/reroll and 1 evade reroll on any red damage. It's a small sample size, but was promising enough to throw this out there. This is of course without Titles or Mothma, which I know will let them survive, but that is why I have 2 of the ships, to make sure they can live through one activation, but not the turn. If facing a bomber heavy fleet, speed 3 gives me a prayer of barrelling in and killing the carriers rapidly. Flotillas are dead at red range (hopefully) and anything but an ISD will wilt in mid range. I guess that is the fleet that this would be weakest too, another highly aggressive ISD fleet with bombers. This morning @GiledPallaeon was kind enough to test this weakness for me, and the game has not yet resolved, but so far it has done what I hoped it would. Question remains whether it will survive because there is still the potential I could lose both MC80L's.

NO MORE MC30's!

Faction: Rebel Alliance
Points: 399/400

Commander: Leia Organa

Assault Objective: Most Wanted
Defense Objective: Contested Outpost
Navigation Objective: Solar Corona

MC80 Star Cruiser (96 points)
- Gunnery Team ( 7 points)
- H9 Turbolasers ( 8 points)
- Quad Turbolaser Cannons ( 10 points)
- SW 7 Ion Batteries ( 5 points)
= 126 total ship cost

[ flagship ] MC80 Star Cruiser (96 points)
- Leia Organa ( 38 points)
- Gunnery Team ( 7 points)
- H9 Turbolasers ( 8 points)
- Quad Turbolaser Cannons ( 10 points)
- SW 7 Ion Batteries ( 5 points)
= 164 total ship cost

GR-75 Medium Transports (18 points)
= 18 total ship cost

GR-75 Medium Transports (18 points)
= 18 total ship cost

GR-75 Medium Transports (18 points)
= 18 total ship cost

1 Tycho Celchu ( 16 points)
1 Shara Bey ( 17 points)
2 A-Wing Squadrons ( 22 points)

I don't think you'll lose both with the game state. I do think you'll lose one, and that I need to drop ET from my Interdictor so I'm not tempted to do dumb stuff like that again.

Between the Concentrate Fire (CF) and the Quad Turbolaser Cannons (QTC), you can get 9 dice in the pool, of which you spend 2 as a accuracies against their redirect. You're telling me that you can then reliably get 7 damage on the 7 remaining dice (using only one single reroll of your own to control this set) after suffering one reroll from your opponent? I'm having a hard time with that. Recall that H9's cannot flip a red blank to an accuracy, they consume a hit to do so.

Instead, if you equip spinal armament, XI7, and leading shots, then you need to come up with 8 damage on 9 total dice, suffering only one reroll from your opponent. This time, the pool which is useful for damage is slightly larger relative to the damage requirement, and you have much more reroll capability (one die from the CF virtual token, and N dice at the cost of one blue (preferably accuracy)). It also costs a tiny pinch less.

All of that is before you factor in things like Lando, Admonition, Foresight, or Major Derlin, at least one if which is likely to be onboard the defender. Mon Mothma is also quite popular in a bulk MC30 list, which makes their evade tokens actually remove a die (or two!) at medium range instead of merely forcing a reroll.

In short, I don't think you're going to one-shot a properly equipped MC30 with this. Now, with two MC80L's sporting gunnery teams, you might two-shot the second, with the first limping away (to maybe get another shot in...).

25 minutes ago, jbrandmeyer said:

Between the Concentrate Fire (CF) and the Quad Turbolaser Cannons (QTC), you can get 9 dice in the pool, of which you spend 2 as a accuracies against their redirect. You're telling me that you can then reliably get 7 damage on the 7 remaining dice (using only one single reroll of your own to control this set) after suffering one reroll from your opponent? I'm having a hard time with that. Recall that H9's cannot flip a red blank to an accuracy, they consume a hit to do so.

Instead, if you equip spinal armament, XI7, and leading shots, then you need to come up with 8 damage on 9 total dice, suffering only one reroll from your opponent. This time, the pool which is useful for damage is slightly larger relative to the damage requirement, and you have much more reroll capability (one die from the CF virtual token, and N dice at the cost of one blue (preferably accuracy)). It also costs a tiny pinch less.

All of that is before you factor in things like Lando, Admonition, Foresight, or Major Derlin, at least one if which is likely to be onboard the defender. Mon Mothma is also quite popular in a bulk MC30 list, which makes their evade tokens actually remove a die (or two!) at medium range instead of merely forcing a reroll.

In short, I don't think you're going to one-shot a properly equipped MC30 with this. Now, with two MC80L's sporting gunnery teams, you might two-shot the second, with the first limping away (to maybe get another shot in...).

Thank you for the in depth thoughts!! The 7 damage came from the 5 auto damage on blues with sw7 primarily. If i blank out on all the red dice, which is unlikely but can happen, of course i won't hit 7. But if 2 of the 3 show hit or accuracy after the first roll and i reroll the blank i am at at least 6 and generally get the 7. Its when i get into multi blank first roll territory, which is single digits in statistic probability. Long story short, Sw7 is the true source of the damage here.

Spinals xi7 and leading shorts works, it is a much more "standard" loadout, but is more susceptible to spikes and valleys. If i am hitting 8 damage its likely cause i have doubles on my reds, which can get rerolled into singles and damage lowered quickly. It also is possible to roll 0 accuracies which makes it brace-able too. That said, i need to test it. You may be on to something i missed since i generally skip leading shots and didnt think of it.

Mothma is of course a wrench i cant plan for. But if i can line 2 mc30s in each arc with gunnery teams nothing is living. That is why i have gunnery team and not vet gunners like i originally thought with this list.

40 minutes ago, BrobaFett said:

Its when i get into multi blank first roll territory, which is single digits in statistic probability.

Its somewhat worse than that, at roughly 15% to get two or more blanks on three red dice. Overall, I'm looking at about 26% odds of there being at least one blank on the three red dice after rerolling one of the initial blanks. So, about 3/4 odds of 7+ damage, and about 1/4 of only 6 damage, before the defender gets to act.

I doodled with another combination: XI7, Spinal, SW7. Now, you're trying for 3+ damage on four red with one reroll. The odds are slightly weaker than your case, at about 63% to get this situation's desired 8+ damage. Again, that's before the defender gets their actions. I'm not set up to handle leading shots' statistics very well, but my hunch is that they are slightly worse than this loadout (similar mean, higher variance).

Then there's the planning. You have absolutely zero dial control, which means that you've got to make a decision on when the MC30 is going to strike well in advance, possibly by forgoing some yaw control that you would otherwise prefer to have. Commander Organa isn't helping you with your navigation in this layout either (although she would complement Nav Teams rather nicely).

Finally, the concentrate fire super-command only gets to be used on one of each ship's two attacks. So that second attack has one fewer die, and no dice control on the red. Leading shots will at least give you some dice control for both attacks.

I can speak from experience here, as I've been running a single Madine Liberty for quite a long time. I've usually run an Admonition as the second hitter primarily because there's a point savings versus outfitting a second Liberty. Here's what I've found:

1. Bid and first player is more important than activation count. The one game that a high activation MC30 list really blew me out of space was my regional finale game against Ardaedhel. I had changed up my build to get a fifth activation and to attempt to learn to play it better as second player, but if the MC30 list has first player and activation advantage, then it can last first you to no end. At that point, you start needing multiple MC30 kills to make up for the one MC80 that you got. I've lost three other games against MC30 spam lists, but in all cases, I was in the game until the end of the game, and my own player mistakes, not my list, were the cause of those defeats. In each case, first player helped a ton.

2. Although the desire can be there to look for 7 damage and the 2 accuracies, what tends to happen in practice, especially against Mon Mothma lists that can potentially cancel out that double hit, is that you really need 6 damage and a single ram, or 5 damage and a double ram with engine techs. Naturally, you want to be wary about how much damage you are doing to yourself via ram. But given MC30 defenses versus the kind of damage they can do, it is generally acceptable to take a hull to pull one off the table. There are a whole lot more combinations that produce 6 damage than 7, and naturally a ton that generate 5 damage. You've got a pretty good idea with Leia and the CF, but one of the keys is simply to figure up how much damage is enough and go with it there. Case in point, in my decisive 5th round game at worlds, I faced Caldias' MC30 spam list, and I simply missed the ram needed to kill a Mothma Foresight. That was the difference between getting 24th, my final result, and 6th, which is where I would have been if I'd gotten the points for Foresight and not given up those for my Liberty. In the game itself, the front arc shot left it with 2 hull, and I had a side-arc in addition that took off one more.

3. After extension experience, I've generally favored the BC over the SC. The extra red and range threat makes a huge difference. GT + the possibility of 2 black AS dice makes a huge difference in how much you can back up the light squadron force with your ships. My sense is that the SC is going to work a lot better in lists that bring a lot of squads to cover up the Liberty's natural weaknesses, and in which it can offer appropriate follow-up and finishing shots (or vice versa). The BC is more of a move-around-the-field wheel-and-deal type ship. The extra red on the BC tends to help a ton on killing flotillas at range. Maybe your Leia super-CF dial will do that for your SC, but once you're running CFs instead of Navs, this ship is extremely predictable, and it not only likes the Madine yaw but speed changes that can keep it out of specific range bands.

4. Solar Corona can backfire. Maybe that's my Madine movement that sometimes jerks it around and catches the corona, and maybe a more direct Leia approach will always get that to work in your favor. Or maybe I didn't stick with Solar Corona long enough.

Yes, a liberty is a good counter to MC30 spam lists. There's definitely going to be a Leia option there that one could tweak to get to work. Keep up the thoughts.

Thanks @Vergilius, definitely a ton there to chew on, so I will keep at it and see how it goes!

CRambo90!

Paging @Truthiness

1 minute ago, Ginkapo said:

CRambo90!

Paging @Truthiness

Thinking this would struggle vs ramming? I dont see it, feel like its too efficient at killing them at range, but i have not played a against an experienced rammer.

Also, I am incorporating suggestions, and think that tomorrows variant will look a little different. I would like to run some tests, so anyone around on vassal tomorrow that wants to get in an informal practice ill be around.

If They Are Running Little to no squadrons go squadron heavy, dodanna build, mc80 HO, assault frig, and two gr 75. B wings and nora. Go slow and force them to rush into the squadron and close range.

After they rush in fire off squadrons with intell ship support.

A mc80 toss 3 red, 3 blue, a CF only give you another red or blue. But a squadron command can give you 4 red dice from x wings, 4 black from y wing, or 4 blue and 4 black from 4 b wings.

The b wings if rolled prefect with a BCC and TF for the blur and blacl reroll can do 3 dmg each, times 4 for 12 dmg total, coupled with nora ability to strip shields they are nasty.

I hit a motti ISD that job in to close to a HO mc80 that had a double arc. Fire off 4 b wing and nora, had a sqaudron command and a token. 1st bwing did 3 dmg, which eas redirect to side, and nora strip a frint shield. 2nd b wing goes and gets 3, other side shield gone and nora effect nocks front to 2 shield, 3rd b wing goes 2 dmg with crit, nora strips another shield, mean front shield gone and 1 dmg card. 4 bwing goes 3 dmg, imp uses contain, so isd at 4 dmg cards. Nora goes hit crit 2 more dmg, contain burned, brace still useable. Total 6 dmg card on a ISD from a squadron dial/token.

Mc80 goes front arc 1 red 2 blue, 1 red crit two acc, Use Donn and picked the crit that let me drop his speed by 1, he is now at speed zero and 7 out of 14. Side arc of 3 red and 3 blue goes. Get a doublehit,hit,miss on red, and hit,hit, crit on blue with blue so six dmg and Donn lets me pick the structure dmg card and kill the ISD vs ramming.

I've played a ton of games with the Battle Cruiser with LS, SA, QTC, GT, ET and Raymus against @Caldias and his MC30 swarm. I can tell you that Liberty's are not the ship you want to use to counter MC30s. An experienced MC30 player, as Caldias is, will trickle in the MC30s one at a time. So you will get one at medium/close range, and another at long range or beyond. Even if you have first player, you are moving your large ships into the arcs of an MC30. Mothma + Admo + Foresight is more than enough to survive a shot at close range from an MC80. Even worse, an MC80 is large enough that an MC30 going speed 3 or 4 can jump over the ship and still land with a double arc in your rear. And then that MC30 will run off into the sunset after killing your ship.

The best way to kill MC30s is with Rogue squads or a bunch of bombers followed with a large attack. I've had better chances with 2 Vics and BCC and 134 points of squads than with an MC80.

In regards to your list, Station Assault is much better. You can sit both Libs at speed 1 on the stations and take 4 front arc attack per round. And with Rhymer nerfed, the squads need to come into flak range and GT works very well with that. I think Fire Lanes would be a bold yellow. You certainly have the dice to hold all 3, but Strategic would be a nightmare to deal with. SC is a good choice because it negates the Libs yaw and let's you position better.

I don't think Leia is a good commander for this list. You have 3 flots with no upgrades and only 4 squads. Drop her for Madine and get Comms Net on all 3 flots. That Nav token can be invaluable when you face MC30s. Or getting a shield back every round which helps against squads.

I agree with @Vergilius about the SC vs BC. The extra red is much more valuable with QTC. And with Spinal and CF, that's 6 reds. Which is why LS is a better choice, because once you hit medium, you get to reroll your blanks. It also works better since you have 1 less blue. Sato could also be a good choice since you can LS at long range and have a black die plus 3-4 red dice. Sato combos well with Tycho too.

If you face squads, you must use your AA. It may seem counter intuitive, but taking 3+ AA shots is much better than a long range shot. Always take a medium shot though. A large ship cannot outrun activated squadrons. The rear of the ship just sticks out too far and speed 3 squads will catch you. My most recent experience with this is when I had a Decimator kill an ISD because the ISD couldn't escape even when going speed 3. Because of that, the flotillas will be of great use. Use them as blockers against MC30s and Demo, and get them into the squadron mess. They aren't going anything else.

I will say I have never tried 2 Libs so I don't know how effective they are. I have seen and heard it's not as amazing as people think though. Try it out and let us know what happens.

So maybe I'm out of my mind here.... but to me the logical way to approach this is to look at what makes 30s so strong....

They're maneuverable...

I mean, they can probably arc dodge better than almost any other ship (minus say the cr90) they're great for hitting close then jumping to long range or even just bombarding from afar....

So here's a thought, flotillas, while silly and kinda useless in terms of direct firepower have the ability to take tractor beams.... which slows ships of equal or lesser size..... an MC30 is a small base... meaning an 18(+6) point flotilla can slow it... now add 3 or 4 more tractor beams... Dump a crap load of bombers with wrexly/intel/escort, some BCC... and maybe a assault frigate to last hit them after the bombers have their way?

Slow 'em down 1 by 1 and tear them to nothing....


IDK... This is what I'd try.... (my most recent games against mc80Ls lead me to believe mc30s have an advantage over them...)

flotillas can murder fast ships

Faction: Rebel Alliance
Points: 393/400

Commander: General Cracken

Assault Objective: Most Wanted
Defense Objective: Fleet Ambush
Navigation Objective: Superior Positions

GR-75 Medium Transports (18 points)
- Phylon Q7 Tractor Beams ( 6 points)
- Comms Net ( 2 points)
= 26 total ship cost

GR-75 Medium Transports (18 points)
- Phylon Q7 Tractor Beams ( 6 points)
- Comms Net ( 2 points)
= 26 total ship cost

GR-75 Medium Transports (18 points)
- Phylon Q7 Tractor Beams ( 6 points)
- Bomber Command Center ( 8 points)
= 32 total ship cost

[ flagship ] Assault Frigate Mark II B (72 points)
- General Cracken ( 26 points)
- Flight Controllers ( 6 points)
- Phylon Q7 Tractor Beams ( 6 points)
- Electronic Countermeasures ( 7 points)
- X17 Turbolasers ( 6 points)
= 123 total ship cost

CR90 Corvette A (44 points)
- Jainas Light ( 2 points)
- Turbolaser Reroute Circuits ( 7 points)
= 53 total ship cost

3 X-Wing Squadrons ( 39 points)
1 Wedge Antilles ( 19 points)
1 Biggs Darklighter ( 19 points)
1 Jan Ors ( 19 points)
1 Norra Wexley ( 17 points)
2 Y-Wing Squadrons ( 20 points)

This isn't exactly helping reduce the number of lists with MC30's... but if you flew something like this I think the list would have more utility against non-MC30-spam lists:

Faction: Rebel Alliance
Points: 384/400

Commander: General Madine

Assault Objective: Advanced Gunnery
Defense Objective: Hyperspace Assault
Navigation Objective: Salvage Run

[ flagship ] MC80 Battle Cruiser (103 points)
- General Madine ( 30 points)
- Raymus Antilles ( 7 points)
- Gunnery Team ( 7 points)
- Engine Techs ( 8 points)
- H9 Turbolasers ( 8 points)
- Quad Turbolaser Cannons ( 10 points)
- Leading Shots ( 4 points)
= 177 total ship cost

MC30c Torpedo Frigate (63 points)
- Admonition ( 8 points)
- Lando Calrissian ( 4 points)
- Ordnance Experts ( 4 points)
- Advanced Projectors ( 6 points)
- H9 Turbolasers ( 8 points)
- Assault Proton Torpedoes ( 5 points)
= 98 total ship cost

GR-75 Medium Transports (18 points)
- Quantum Storm ( 1 points)
- Leia Organa ( 3 points)
- Slicer Tools ( 7 points)
= 29 total ship cost

GR-75 Medium Transports (18 points)
- Bright Hope ( 2 points)
- Ahsoka Tano ( 2 points)
- Slicer Tools ( 7 points)
= 29 total ship cost

GR-75 Medium Transports (18 points)
= 18 total ship cost

1 Tycho Celchu ( 16 points)
1 Shara Bey ( 17 points)

You've got the points to guarantee first player, five activations, a double-accuracy-capable MC80, Admonition to serve as a trailer, plenty of Slicer Tools to turn off Squadron commands, and Leia & Ahsoka so you can spam Nav commands on the Liberty until you need a Concentrate Fire without having to sacrifice the ability to Engine Tech or get an extra yaw click.

As for the objectives, it's unlikely you'll have to yank 'em out, but it more or less guarantees you get Salvage Run which is a good for a free 80 points (it's hard not go get all the tokens with three GR-75's).

Even more gross, though first player is not guaranteed:

Faction: Rebel Alliance
Points: 390/400

Commander: General Madine

Assault Objective: Advanced Gunnery
Defense Objective: Hyperspace Assault
Navigation Objective: Salvage Run

[ flagship ] MC80 Battle Cruiser (103 points)
- General Madine ( 30 points)
- Raymus Antilles ( 7 points)
- Gunnery Team ( 7 points)
- Engine Techs ( 8 points)
- H9 Turbolasers ( 8 points)
- Quad Turbolaser Cannons ( 10 points)
- Leading Shots ( 4 points)
= 177 total ship cost

GR-75 Medium Transports (18 points)
- Bright Hope ( 2 points)
- Ahsoka Tano ( 2 points)
- Slicer Tools ( 7 points)
= 29 total ship cost

GR-75 Medium Transports (18 points)
- Quantum Storm ( 1 points)
- Leia Organa ( 3 points)
- Slicer Tools ( 7 points)
= 29 total ship cost

GR-75 Medium Transports (18 points)
= 18 total ship cost

CR90 Corvette B (39 points)
- Engine Techs ( 8 points)
- SW 7 Ion Batteries ( 5 points)
= 52 total ship cost

CR90 Corvette B (39 points)
- Engine Techs ( 8 points)
- SW 7 Ion Batteries ( 5 points)
= 52 total ship cost

1 Tycho Celchu ( 16 points)
1 Shara Bey ( 17 points)

Even if you lose first player you'll get 80 free points (Salvage Run) and probably out activate them by two or even three ships.

@TaeSWXW

As the one who pioneered that list archetype and took it to the main stage, I've got a few comments.

1. Advanced Gunnery: If you do get outbid, it will almost always be a DeMSU. Now, I know from playing this list that I really like seeing Advanced Gunnery in the list of objectives because a speedy shrimp can zoom in position itself to fire a side arc into two separate hull zones, and then zoom off to where it cannot be hit. In other words, this is a pretty big advantage for the types of lists that will outbid it. It almost sounded like you were thinking AG on the Liberty, but that conflicts with the GT per the FAQ going back a long ways. There are a number of good red objectives here, but AG isn't one of them.

2. Hyperspace Assault and Salvage run: I've recently started shying away from all objectives like this for one key reason: Strategic. I don't tend to see a lot of it until you start getting to the better players. And then some percentage of them bring it and they always have a plan for it. Thankfully, most strategic lists won't be outbidding either list, but I've certainly experimented with Tycho/Shara/2VCX just to mess with objectives, and if I can think that might be worthwhile, then so can someone else. Thankfully, most MSU lists won't outbid.

The rest I really like. I don't know how many variants of the list I've played, and the tweaks tend to matter more for local meta than anything else.

6 minutes ago, Vergilius said:

@TaeSWXW

As the one who pioneered that list archetype and took it to the main stage, I've got a few comments.

1. Advanced Gunnery: If you do get outbid, it will almost always be a DeMSU. Now, I know from playing this list that I really like seeing Advanced Gunnery in the list of objectives because a speedy shrimp can zoom in position itself to fire a side arc into two separate hull zones, and then zoom off to where it cannot be hit. In other words, this is a pretty big advantage for the types of lists that will outbid it. It almost sounded like you were thinking AG on the Liberty, but that conflicts with the GT per the FAQ going back a long ways. There are a number of good red objectives here, but AG isn't one of them.

2. Hyperspace Assault and Salvage run: I've recently started shying away from all objectives like this for one key reason: Strategic. I don't tend to see a lot of it until you start getting to the better players. And then some percentage of them bring it and they always have a plan for it. Thankfully, most strategic lists won't be outbidding either list, but I've certainly experimented with Tycho/Shara/2VCX just to mess with objectives, and if I can think that might be worthwhile, then so can someone else. Thankfully, most MSU lists won't outbid.

The rest I really like. I don't know how many variants of the list I've played, and the tweaks tend to matter more for local meta than anything else.

Didn't know about AG & GT - thanks for the head's up. Keeping it around for Admo isn't a terrible idea though. I tend to use Blockade Run in a lot of these faster lists. No one ever picks it, but when they do, free 100 points to me.

Hyperspace Assault/Salvage Run - you have a good point. Thankfully, in my local meta there isn't a lot of strategic play. Salvage Run, however, I'm usually not too concerned with, as Quantum Storm can jump in there pretty quick and grab some tokens as can Bright Hope. My lists I usually run Fleet Ambush which helps with remove fighter deployments and Salvage Run or Superior Positions since it's pretty easy to get one of two fast moving ships behind enemy lines.

Something I mentioned in Park Daddy's recent thread - Brobafett, if you swap out the H-9s and Gunnery Team for Spinal Mount and Sensor Team, enter in a CF command and use Sato's ability to swap reds for blues that's a guaranteed 7 damage + 2 accuracy that can't be effected by Evade.

True, and I have been playing around with things believe i have found something that makes up for Leias weak navigation.

However, I was thinking the same solution may also work for the ship in a Sato list.

And Libertys may not be the best mc30 hunters, but most of the other specialized things i have boiled up to kill them quickly and consistently has been very weak against one other common fleet type or another. So far i have played this fleet against 2 bomber fleets and a large ship heavy fleet and it has done far better than i imagined.

On 6/28/2017 at 9:24 AM, TaeSWXW said:

Even more gross, though first player is not guaranteed:

Faction: Rebel Alliance
Points: 390/400

Commander: General Madine

Assault Objective: Advanced Gunnery
Defense Objective: Hyperspace Assault
Navigation Objective: Salvage Run

......

Along those lines with the new Hammerheads

SHIP: MC80 Star Cruiser 96

UPGRADES PTS

General Madine 30

Gunnery Team 7

Medical Team 1

Leading Shots 4

Spinal Armament 9

XI7 Turbolasers 6

Mon Karren 8

TOTAL POINTS: 161

SHIP: Hammerhead Torpedo Corvette 36

UPGRADES PTS

Hondo Ohnaka 2

Ordnance Experts 4

Phylon Q7 Tractor Beams 6

External Racks 3

TOTAL POINTS: 51

SHIP: Hammerhead Torpedo Corvette 36

UPGRADES PTS

Ordnance Experts 4

Phylon Q7 Tractor Beams 6

External Racks 3

TOTAL POINTS: 49

SHIP: Hammerhead Torpedo Corvette 36

UPGRADES PTS

Ordnance Experts 4

Phylon Q7 Tractor Beams 6

External Racks 3

TOTAL POINTS: 49

SHIP: Hammerhead Torpedo Corvette 36

UPGRADES PTS

Ordnance Experts 4

Phylon Q7 Tractor Beams 6

External Racks 3

TOTAL POINTS: 49

SQUADRONS PTS

Shara Bey 17

Tycho Celchu 16

TOTAL POINTS: 33

Small ships won't be going anywhere. Of course if all your opponent has is big ships, well you can always just ram him and clean up with the MC80.

I'm playing MC30s a lot so believe me when I say that no double Liberty list will give you a clear upper hand. An MC30 spam list always revolves around keeping thwm alive so Admo, Fore, Blissex, Lando, Derlin, Mothma, Madine or a combination of these is alwasy partof such fleets. You barely can one-shot them (you need some insane rolls), and your opponent will know it's not a great idea to hang in your front arc. Unless he makes a mistake he will go against you head-on, stop in red range then jump in to yoir sidearc and rip you apart with blacks in the next turn. If you're unlucky enough he can do that with two shrimps.

What you need is Phylon otherwise they can easily outmaneuver your front arc. Even Phylons are no guarantee, but they give you a better chance.

Also, use objectives that don't suit hit and run missions. Station assault or salvage run are teo objectives that can cleverly played to be a no-win scenario for a shrimp fleet.

Large ships need support so you must use Flotilas as a means to stop easy flanking shots against them.

A well balanced fleet with an MC80 as the core will work against pretty much anything. But you need support elements in the form of Flotillas, Corvettes and Squadrons.

MC30 spam can be powerful but they are somewhat easy to beat if you bring a balanced fleet, at least such one dimensional fleets are predictable. But pretty much any fleet in the hands of an experienced player can be strong.

If you have two Liberty class ships in a 400p game they need to be almost naked to make it work with enough support, at least just some small essential upgrades. At 600p two MC80 becomes a much more powerful choice.