From the Star Wars RPG line that uses the same sort of dice, there has been an observed issue with gameplay balance, seen from early to late game, with regards to how the dice pool opposing an attack is formed. Last I've heard, the developers even left it open ended saying they were planning some sort of rework of the defense mechanics, but that no such update has since been provided.

How do you think such a thing might be resolved, if at all, in Genesys?

The issue is conflicting information on whether or not defense from different sources stack. At first they said it did, then they said it didn't, then they went silent on the issue. Some of the terms used in the game (increase defense and gain defense) also make it unclear. A simple clarification is all that's really needed.

I wonder if the reason the FAQ for Star Wars hasn't been updated in so long is due in part to Sam and crew working on Genesys. I'd say there's a decent chance we'll get an updated FAQ with several clarifications around the time that Genesys hits shelves, as it's essentially going to be the 'improved' version of the narrative dice system used for Star Wars.

I'm definitely going to get a copy of this just to see what has been tweaked, defence would be a wonderful surprise.

2 hours ago, Donovan Morningfire said:

I wonder if the reason the FAQ for Star Wars hasn't been updated in so long is due in part to Sam and crew working on Genesys. I'd say there's a decent chance we'll get an updated FAQ with several clarifications around the time that Genesys hits shelves, as it's essentially going to be the 'improved' version of the narrative dice system used for Star Wars.

Indeed, I think Genesys will effectively be the "2nd Edition" of the Star Wars RPG line, in addition to being generic enough to handle other genres. In fact, makes you wonder if "Genesys" is supposed to be some play on the words "Generic System"

8 minutes ago, Magnus Arcanus said:

In fact, makes you wonder if "Genesys" is supposed to be some play on the words "Generic System

I think that's exactly what it's supposed to be

2 minutes ago, Richardbuxton said:

I think that's exactly what it's supposed to be

I can't see how it wouldn't be.

I don't know that I think defense is unbalanced. It's certain a bit clunky and unclear, especially in regards to what stacks. I certainly hope they use this as an excuse to clean it up and tweak it a bit.

3 hours ago, Magnus Arcanus said:

Indeed, I think Genesys will effectively be the "2nd Edition" of the Star Wars RPG line, in addition to being generic enough to handle other genres. In fact, makes you wonder if "Genesys" is supposed to be some play on the words "Generic System"

Brilliant! I have to admit I hadn't seen it, but I think my mind was working it out all day.

Huh, and here I thought the "Genesys = Generic System" was so blatantly obvious to as to not need mentioning...

Guess that sort of thinking comes from some combo of having been a data analyst in my day job for the past decade and having a deep enjoyment of wordplay, especially puns.

2 hours ago, Donovan Morningfire said:

Huh, and here I thought the "Genesys = Generic System" was so blatantly obvious to as to not need mentioning...

Guess that sort of thinking comes from some combo of having been a data analyst in my day job for the past decade and having a deep enjoyment of wordplay, especially puns.

I've been sitting on the announcement at work unable to thoroughly read the post until I got home when I read this. The name Genesys is much prefered to GURPS or BRP or EBA or WOIN or even Savage Worlds.

8 hours ago, Magnus Arcanus said:

Indeed, I think Genesys will effectively be the "2nd Edition" of the Star Wars RPG line, in addition to being generic enough to handle other genres. In fact, makes you wonder if "Genesys" is supposed to be some play on the words "Generic System"

Genesis?

Genesis?

Genesis?

(Christ, the new forum software REALLY makes those embedded videos F'ing huge)

10 hours ago, Kommissar said:

From the Star Wars RPG line that uses the same sort of dice, there has been an observed issue with gameplay balance, seen from early to late game, with regards to how the dice pool opposing an attack is formed. Last I've heard, the developers even left it open ended saying they were planning some sort of rework of the defense mechanics, but that no such update has since been provided.

How do you think such a thing might be resolved, if at all, in Genesys?

Off the top of my head: "Downgrade the attacker's proficiency dice by 1 for every point of the defender's Defense. (Defense no longer provides penalty dice.)"

I have not considered the implications of this, other than that the attacker gets less chances to roll a Triumph at low Defense, and significantly reducing the attacker's success rate at high Defense as ability dice start getting removed from the pool.

Defense might not even be handled in the same way in this system. I'm not necessarily expecting EotE with the serial numbers filed off, we could see some big changes here.

6 hours ago, Desslok said:

(Christ, the new forum software REALLY makes those embedded videos F'ing huge)

Maybe it just requires an Invisible Touch? Or you're just In Too Deep?

7 hours ago, Radon Antila said:

Off the top of my head: "Downgrade the attacker's proficiency dice by 1 for every point of the defender's Defense. (Defense no longer provides penalty dice.)"

I have not considered the implications of this, other than that the attacker gets less chances to roll a Triumph at low Defense, and significantly reducing the attacker's success rate at high Defense as ability dice start getting removed from the pool.

When there are no more proficiencies to remove, further downgrades do nothing, they do not remove greens.

17 hours ago, Magnus Arcanus said:

Indeed, I think Genesys will effectively be the "2nd Edition" of the Star Wars RPG line, in addition to being generic enough to handle other genres. In fact, makes you wonder if "Genesys" is supposed to be some play on the words "Generic System"

I know this may come off nitpicky (or even rude), but technically Star Wars was a second edition for the rules set. It all started with Jay Little creating the rules for Warhammer Fantasy RolePlay 3rd Edition. Star Wars was it's successor, and now Genesys takes it another step.

The biggest issue Genesys will suffer from is new players not using the system right, playing it more like D&D or Pathfinder, and not the free and open rules that it works well for.

5 hours ago, ApocalypseZero said:

The biggest issue Genesys will suffer from is new players not using the system right, playing it more like D&D or Pathfinder, and not the free and open rules that it works well for.

Good point.

After all, I saw and heard of quite a number of folks trying to run FFG's Star Wars game using the mindset engendered by OCR/RCR/Saga Edition, all of which were based upon the same d20 system that D&D and Pathfinder utilize, and running into quite a number of stumbling blocks, with one of the more memorable for me being Garrett "barefoottourguide" Crowe remarking upon how a minion group of four stormtroopers was a serious threat to his PCs after years of Saga Edition and stormtroopers being glorified cannon fodder even to 1st level PCs.

54 minutes ago, Donovan Morningfire said:

After all, I saw and heard of quite a number of folks trying to run FFG's Star Wars game using the mindset engendered by OCR/RCR/Saga Edition, all of which were based upon the same d20 system that D&D and Pathfinder utilize, and running into quite a number of stumbling blocks

Hell, even after four years of playing, it's still way too easy for me to slip into a "just roll the dice, compute the damage and move on" mindset. I constantly ask my players to tell me how they are being awesome, not what the numbers say to keep them from falling into the same trap.

Thirty years of doing it one way is tough to overcome at times.

14 hours ago, Desslok said:

Hell, even after four years of playing, it's still way too easy for me to slip into a "just roll the dice, compute the damage and move on" mindset. I constantly ask my players to tell me how they are being awesome, not what the numbers say to keep them from falling into the same trap.

Thirty years of doing it one way is tough to overcome at times.

Very true.

Hell, just the micro-managing of rolls is bad. One of the great nuggets of wisdom Jay Little imparted to me about this system is that you don't have to have a roll for every action.

Sniper sneaking into cover and firing a shot? One roll (the attack) and use the Advantages/Threat to mitigate the stealth.

Riding a horse after a bad guy and diving off to sudue the target? One roll (could be a Pilot or an Athletics or even Coordination or even a Brawl) and use Advantage/Threat to inflict Strain damage to each other, could even have your gun fall out at the bad guys feet on a Despair.

On 6/27/2017 at 11:11 AM, Kommissar said:

From the Star Wars RPG line that uses the same sort of dice, there has been an observed issue with gameplay balance, seen from early to late game, with regards to how the dice pool opposing an attack is formed. Last I've heard, the developers even left it open ended saying they were planning some sort of rework of the defense mechanics, but that no such update has since been provided.

How do you think such a thing might be resolved, if at all, in Genesys?

I don't think the re-work needs to all that elaborate, to me it just needs to be some kind of word of what sources can stack. Personally I'd say use common sense and add best Defense from an item worn/carried, add from environment/cover, Talents, and make personal shields/magic their own special snowflake, and call it done.

1 hour ago, 2P51 said:

I don't think the re-work needs to all that elaborate, to me it just needs to be some kind of word of what sources can stack. Personally I'd say use common sense and add best Defense from an item worn/carried, add from environment/cover, Talents, and make personal shields/magic their own special snowflake, and call it done.

Pretty much this. Though I would have a hard cap in my came. Stacking defense can get pretty cheesy and slow things down. Sure I could adjust the enemies, but that has its own set of problems.

14 hours ago, 2P51 said:

I don't think the re-work needs to all that elaborate, to me it just needs to be some kind of word of what sources can stack. Personally I'd say use common sense and add best Defense from an item worn/carried, add from environment/cover, Talents, and make personal shields/magic their own special snowflake, and call it done.

We could just change the effect itself. Instead of adding setback dice, defense could become the other side of soak. Negating advantages. This works spending against autofire weapons, weapons based on crits and even removes one of the most common complains about starship combat as a defense of 4 would often just allow for single, but not double or triple hits and so starfighters survive more likely a single attack, which then gives room for damage control to take a second as well before going down.

Now shields and other ways of active reflective abilities should still be some kind of special snowflake. Shields for example could work as allowing to take a parry/reflect action, sacrificing damage for strain regeneration or other advantages while gaining access to parry/reflect ranks until end of your next turn. If you handle it this way, those items don't need to have other defensive abilities.