23 minutes ago, Notoryctemorph said:

I have a question

Why would anyone in their right mind want to throw out the beautiful and unique Roll&Keep system?

Not only is it brilliantly elegant, but it fits with the setting of L5R perfectly, and does an absolutely marvelous job of differentiating between reliability (boosting rolled dice) and potential (boosting kept dice), while also, allowing players to intentionally low-roll without needing extra ruling for such acts

Not everyone agrees with you on R&K, though I am fine with it, personally.

Also, as noted, Marketing and Sales, as it is easier to transfer someone over to a similar system than a new one, as well as develop for the new system if there are common rules that don't need to be created. It is a good choice on FFG's part. I think it will make them lots of money, and will keep development costs down over trying to revamp 4ed L5R. They can focus on source books, knowing that their core system is solid.

If Person A is already playing Star Wars (or another Genesys Game), and Person B (friend of A) said "Hey, lets play this samurai game!" Person A will more likely play it if its a system they are already familiar with. I'm not saying its going to be a majority of people, but if it boosts sales by 5-10%, that is not insignificant.

On 6/27/2017 at 1:54 PM, Kuni Katsuyoshi said:

One thing that excites me is the possibity of the honorable retirement of 'one tech' school advancement

I assume you're referring to the lack of customizability, short of the canonically rare possibility of switching schools?

2 minutes ago, Ide Yoshiya said:

I assume you're referring to the lack of customizability, short of the canonically rare possibility of switching schools?

Basically yes

D20 allowed for a more free form type of advancement. 3rd edition gave out bonuses along with a tech. I miss either or both of those.

I expect going forward the clan schools will similar to the lightsaber form trees from SW Force & Destiny. Which would give the player a little more choice in his characters advancement

If they took the ideas from Force and Destiny and made an L5R rp I'd be happy. I know lots of people are worried of a generic clone game stripped of flavor, but I just don't see FFG doing that. Using the same core system, but with mechanics that evoke the setting is what I honestly expect.

On 8/2/2017 at 1:36 AM, Notoryctemorph said:

Why would anyone in their right mind want to throw out the beautiful and unique Roll&Keep system?

To sell specialty/custom dice.

After all, when was the last time you bought generic d10s from FFG?

If they can stteamline honor gain and loss a bit, so I don't have to check the rulebook every time a player says or does something, I'll be thrilled. ?

5 hours ago, Radon Antila said:

To sell specialty/custom dice.

After all, when was the last time you bought generic d10s from FFG?

August 2013, with the second city set!

4 hours ago, Ide Yoshiya said:

If they can stteamline honor gain and loss a bit, so I don't have to check the rulebook every time a player says or does something, I'll be thrilled. ?

We were talking about this on discord, and honor is such a weird stat, when you think about it. It is why I posted in L5RLive about it. In the old game, it felt like honor (which is a stat for some flavor of morality, if you think about it, but not too hard, as THAT is a philosophical discussion I don't want to get into), was an absolute, given the mechanics of the RPG especially. It was applied across all clans equally, which is what made them 'high' and 'low' honor, as well as the individuals. Given that it had actual in game benefits (High honor resists fear better than low honor, etc), it helps to enforce the rigid code of conduct of L5R (Actually, penalizing your character's abilities when they misbehave), but it also discourages diversity of behavior from the players. One of my friends has gotten actively mad because doing the right thing would cause them an honor loss. I actually think while flavorful, it is mildly detrimental to the game. Given the removal of Personal Honor, and then replaced by Glory as a card stat, maybe FFG is moving away from the concept of Personal Honor as a stat.

3 hours ago, Mirith said:

Given the removal of Personal Honor, and then replaced by Glory as a card stat, maybe FFG is moving away from the concept of Personal Honor as a stat.

That, or they're merely moving away from one of the more confusing elements of the CCG, that a card's Personal Honor had no direct relationship to your Honor despite using a similar term.

5 hours ago, Mirith said:

August 2013, with the second city set!

You bought that from FFG?

1 hour ago, RandomJC said:

You bought that from FFG?

Sorry I immediately replaced FFG with AEG in my head (because D10). They were trying to get rid of those.

Transferring the current L5R roll and keep system to the FFG home system would be a disaster for this rpg. Because one of the factors that have contributed to its popularity is this system. It allows it a lot of flexibility and increases allows to create a scale between a simple success and an exceptional success.

But I understand FFG to want to build customer loyalty to the Genesys system, for the new generation of players who have known that this is a big plus for FFG. In addition its generates additional income for the sale of special dice. This is the model that the company has chosen for their RPG, but unfortunately for me this does not suit me. When I tested star wars force and destiny that much displeased to me and my friends we went back on the old d20 system.

On 2017-08-03 at 9:43 AM, Mirith said:

We were talking about this on discord, and honor is such a weird stat, when you think about it. It is why I posted in L5RLive about it. In the old game, it felt like honor (which is a stat for some flavor of morality, if you think about it, but not too hard, as THAT is a philosophical discussion I don't want to get into), was an absolute, given the mechanics of the RPG especially. It was applied across all clans equally, which is what made them 'high' and 'low' honor, as well as the individuals. Given that it had actual in game benefits (High honor resists fear better than low honor, etc), it helps to enforce the rigid code of conduct of L5R (Actually, penalizing your character's abilities when they misbehave), but it also discourages diversity of behavior from the players. One of my friends has gotten actively mad because doing the right thing would cause them an honor loss. I actually think while flavorful, it is mildly detrimental to the game. Given the removal of Personal Honor, and then replaced by Glory as a card stat, maybe FFG is moving away from the concept of Personal Honor as a stat.

I would also like to come back to what Mirith said about honor. It is true that a high score of honor to his advantage, so it allows you to redo a roll using your score of honor in order to avoid losing face. However, I play character without honor and this is quite possible and allows other possibilities of play. There is some mechanics that is more that allows you to avoid losing honor even by committing acts dishonorable. The fact of wanting to play an honorable or not is only a personal choice to the player and I must confess that playing a person without honor in L5R gives situations quite tasty.

I like the way L5R does honour, because it demonstrates very powerfully that samurai culture is different to ours, and that their morality is not ours. If the behaviour of samurai (especially towards peasants and eta) doesn't horrify you, you aren't paying attention.

5 minutes ago, Kitsu Seinosuke said:

I like the way L5R does honour, because it demonstrates very powerfully that samurai culture is different to ours, and that their morality is not ours. If the behaviour of samurai (especially towards peasants and eta) doesn't horrify you, you aren't paying attention.

Well said.

The vast differences between western and eastern cultures, is what sucked me into L5R in the first place. So I agree.

1 hour ago, Valya said:

Transferring the current L5R roll and keep system to the FFG home system would be a disaster for this rpg. Because one of the factors that have contributed to its popularity is this system. It allows it a lot of flexibility and increases allows to create a scale between a simple success and an exceptional success.

But I understand FFG to want to build customer loyalty to the Genesys system, for the new generation of players who have known that this is a big plus for FFG. In addition its generates additional income for the sale of special dice. This is the model that the company has chosen for their RPG, but unfortunately for me this does not suit me. When I tested star wars force and destiny that much displeased to me and my friends we went back on the old d20 system.

I would also like to come back to what Mirith said about honor. It is true that a high score of honor to his advantage, so it allows you to redo a roll using your score of honor in order to avoid losing face. However, I play character without honor and this is quite possible and allows other possibilities of play. There is some mechanics that is more that allows you to avoid losing honor even by committing acts dishonorable. The fact of wanting to play an honorable or not is only a personal choice to the player and I must confess that playing a person without honor in L5R gives situations quite tasty.

But what you are talking about is not in the general sense, but characters designed around this fact. I don't disagree that playing a "dishonorable" character can be fun. However that wasn't my point. My point is that there was an in game negative mechanical consequence because the morality within the system conflicted with the player's morality, and there is little room to maneuver. My main point is that there is the loss of mechanical value based on how your character acts, in small incremental ways. I find it similar to systems that use some form of XP to allow you temporary buffs in game, like old 7th sea, Numenera or Deadlands. Each of those has some form of mechanic (Drama Dice, XP, and Fate Chips respectively), that directly translate to XP, but can also be used for some temporary or small gain, and are basically spending XP for void points. I find this to be a NPE, since you don't want to use those mechanics except to better your character, and when you do have to use it, it feels like it is even more of a loss.

On @Kitsu Seinosuke point, it is a crux of the system, but they could disconnect the mechanical benefits from the in game decision benefits. Have in-game consequences to in-game actions is good, but permanent changes to characters generally should be drastic and dramatic, not incremental.

Also, L5R+Genesys WILL make FFG money. The people who will now play L5R RPG because FFG did something will far outweigh the amount of people who will not play the new RPG because the system changed.

27 minutes ago, Kitsu Seinosuke said:

samurai culture is different to ours

This is a meme, tho.

1 minute ago, AtoMaki said:

This is a meme, tho.

Explain please.

2 minutes ago, Kuni Katsuyoshi said:

Explain please.

In real life, samurai culture differed from knightly culture only aesthetically. The interesting tidbits were added much later (between WW1 and WW2 as far as I know) with the definitive purpose of making it different and thus serve as the "We are special!" stamp for the Japanese (this was a huge thing in that time period). The samurai culture as you know it is roughly the equivalent of knowing knightly culture from Dungeons and Dragons (interesting fact: most Japanese are in this boat).

And yes, it gets weirder the deeper you dig. Been there, done that, gave a good laugh to the professor who explained it.

It seems to be that @Kitsu Seinosuke was referring to L5R Samurai Culture. As we both know, L5R are obviously romanticized and fantastical versions of their real life counterparts. Similarly, about everything in DnD is a romanticized and fantastical version of their counterparts.

Just now, player2636234 said:

L5R are obviously romanticized and fantastical versions of their real life counterparts.

it is more like L5R is an obviously romanticized and fantastical version of a less-obviously romanticized and fantastical version of the real life counterpart .

1 minute ago, AtoMaki said:

it is more like L5R is an obviously romanticized and fantastical version of a less-obviously romanticized and fantastical version of the real life counterpart .

Reminds me vaguely of watching John Wayne movies.

While I'm not ENTIRELY closed to the idea of separating mechanical advantages/disadvantages of high/low honor, the purpose that I think is behind the Idea I DO agree with.

The culture we're simulating has direct dangers to those who act outside the boundaries of 'acceptable '.

I think we should separate 'Honor' from 'Social Conventions'. The former is not very in-line with the latter as per the Rokugani definition, so to speak.

Just now, Kuni Katsuyoshi said:

While I'm not ENTIRELY closed to the idea of separating mechanical advantages/disadvantages of high/low honor, the purpose that I think is behind the Idea I DO agree with.

The culture we're simulating has direct dangers to those who act outside the boundaries of 'acceptable '.

I generally disagree with the concept of "Morality" stats in RPGs, unless there are choices to choose from and actual god(s) who rewards you directly for behaving coherently. See Shourido. Following Shourido is actively detrimental to your honor of your character, despite being an 'accepted' belief system. Shouldn't they have an Ambition stat that replaces honor?

Also, in L5R specifically, honor is different than perceived honor. And you can lose honor by behaving without anyone seeing you do it. For example, if you poison someone, and never get caught, you still lose honor. If you touch a corpse while by yourself, you still lose honor. However, I think there should be social consequences of if you poison someone and then someone finds out. For example, you get executed.

2 minutes ago, AtoMaki said:

I think we should separate 'Honor' from 'Social Conventions'. The former is not very in-line with the latter as per the Rokugani definition, so to speak.

However, in the R&K RPG, these are the same thing. A breach of etiquette (Social Convention) is an honor loss, and can be a major one at that, depending on the error.

Also, L5R RPG has had "Honor" as a stat for its entire existence, with very little change besides some details. And I think John Wick has said he regrets this implementation.

5 minutes ago, Mirith said:

However, in the R&K RPG, these are the same thing. A breach of etiquette (Social Convention) is an honor loss, and can be a major one at that, depending on the error.

Yes, this needs to go. All that should ever increase or decrease one's Honor is adhering or violating the seven virtues. You can probably make an argument that breaching etiquette violates Courtesy, but I would only disagree there.