1 hour ago, Kakita Shijin said:

I think bowed attachments will not contribute their skill values.

I think they will, because:

1) In FFG's other comparable games, attachment / enhancement cards do still add to the character's stat(s).

2) If bowed attachments stop contributing skill value, it makes many cards *far* weaker (Jade Tetsubo and Niten Adept, for example), and would also possibly make Dragon's main theme terrible.

7 minutes ago, Togashi Gao Shan said:

I think they will, because:

1) In FFG's other comparable games, attachment / enhancement cards do still add to the character's stat(s).

To your point, they do say +X, not X. Traditional game design implies this affects the attaching character NOT the item itself.

8 minutes ago, Togashi Gao Shan said:

I think they will, because:

1) In FFG's other comparable games, attachment / enhancement cards do still add to the character's stat(s).

2) If bowed attachments stop contributing skill value, it makes many cards *far* weaker (Jade Tetsubo and Niten Adept, for example), and would also possibly make Dragon's main theme terrible.

I think my only problem then is that it makes bowing a card to activate it's effect kind of meaningless otherwise.

Just now, RandomJC said:

I think my only problem then is that it makes bowing a card to activate it's effect kind of meaningless otherwise.

Unless it is to stop Jade Tetsubo and Niten Adept from working together. But I don't disagree with your point.

Just now, Mirith said:

Unless it is to stop Jade Tetsubo and Niten Adept from working together. But I don't disagree with your point.

It is probably something like that, just at the moment it's such an odd combo to see happen. and bowing Stronghold for an action seems weird, but we may see cards bowing strongholds for whatever reason in the neutral sets.

9 minutes ago, RandomJC said:

I think my only problem then is that it makes bowing a card to activate it's effect kind of meaningless otherwise.

Not always. Some attachments have actions on them that require bowing, and you can't bow it for its action and also for an action from Niten Adept (etc).

6 minutes ago, Togashi Gao Shan said:

Not always. Some attachments have actions on them that require bowing, and you can't bow it for its action and also for an action from Niten Adept (etc).

We're bowing Strongholds as well as attachments. It just feels off that the only cost for Crab player for bowing Jade Tetsubo is so a Dragon Character can't use it. We haven't really seen many "bow an attachment" requirements so far.

What do you mean "the only cost for Crab player for bowing Jade Tetsubo is so a Dragon Character can't use it"?

I'm sure there will be a mix of teams that bow for effect, and others that provide passive benefits.

Pacifism.

Also makes me wonder if there will be unfriendly conflict characters that you can bestow upon your opponent with strictly bad text, like "each other character participating in this conflict gains -1 Military".

It seems less likely there will be cuckoos in the game.

What made me think about this kind of shaeningans is a memory of a card that referenced...friendly characters...? or something like that. Without context of Niten Adept people assumed it was a multiplayer friendly wording, but now it makes me think..........

EDIT

Just a thought, but maybe if this unit is used defensively with multiple attachments, Duelist Training would be a good splash card. Since it's +0/+0 there's no loss if bowed attachments don't contribute their bonuses, and the ability is activated by the attached character, so bowing DT shouldn't affect that, either. Could be a good option to potentially bow a 2nd opponent? Thoughts?

Yeah, it's one of reasons why I'm considering going Dragon / Crane over Dragon / Lion, other being Voice of Honor, Admit Defeat and Above Question

6 hours ago, RandomJC said:

I think my only problem then is that it makes bowing a card to activate it's effect kind of meaningless otherwise.

Something to remember is that the Core set is setting the baseline power levels and costs.

41 minutes ago, Ultimatecalibur said:

Something to remember is that the Core set is setting the baseline power levels and costs.

Still seems like bowing attachments and strongholds isn't really a cost, at this moment.

4 hours ago, Brekekekiwi said:

What do you mean "the only cost for Crab player for bowing Jade Tetsubo is so a Dragon Character can't use it"?

A clunky way of saying the bow effect for someone who isn't this character, is meaningless.

I'm also aware that we haven't seen most of the cards, I'm only giving my baseline feelings on this.

People seem to want to Voltron him up but that seems rather dangerous. His cost of 2 puts him into range of some of the direct character removal cards. I also don't see any point of loading him up with anything but a single 0 cost attachment so you can possibly give him an extra fate or two.

For Voltron potential, I'd rather see someone in the 3 or 4 range with 0 glory or a cheaper personality with evasion or protection. Why 0 glory? Just an added layer against dishonor effects or to remove the need to go for the Fire ring when other rings are better.

I like the strategic elements this guy introduces with attachments you play on your opponents characters.

For example, if you run Cloud the Mind you need to decide if you want to get rid of a guy's action or if you want to be able to bow him to keep him from contributing skill.

2 hours ago, Kubernes said:

People seem to want to Voltron him up but that seems rather dangerous. His cost of 2 puts him into range of some of the direct character removal cards. I also don't see any point of loading him up with anything but a single 0 cost attachment so you can possibly give him an extra fate or two.

For Voltron potential, I'd rather see someone in the 3 or 4 range with 0 glory or a cheaper personality with evasion or protection. Why 0 glory? Just an added layer against dishonor effects or to remove the need to go for the Fire ring when other rings are better.

Maybe like...a character with their own built in pump too? Say, a WANDERING RONIN?!

5 hours ago, RandomJC said:

Still seems like bowing attachments and strongholds isn't really a cost, at this moment.

It's not a cost so much as a means of easily seeing at a glance that an ability has been used already. It makes the board state easier to read.

3 hours ago, Laurence J Sinclair said:

It's not a cost so much as a means of easily seeing at a glance that an ability has been used already. It makes the board state easier to read.

Eh...That would explain why players would do it, but not why it's a part of the card text. After all, holdings that have effects don't require bowing to activate them.

23 minutes ago, RandomJC said:

Eh...That would explain why players would do it, but not why it's a part of the card text. After all, holdings that have effects don't require bowing to activate them.

Hey regarding your earlier comment I think bowing attachments will be a cost of using them. We already know that Dragon have one attachment that has action: bow to make another attachment cost 1 less. Tetsubo is also there and I can imagine few others will come.

So I guess this requirement is to not make some attachments much stronger than others on him?

1 minute ago, BordOne said:

Hey regarding your earlier comment I think bowing attachments will be a cost of using them. We already know that Dragon have one attachment that has action: bow to make another attachment cost 1 less. Tetsubo is also there and I can imagine few others will come.

So I guess this requirement is to not make some attachments much stronger than others on him?

Yeah, I've thought of that, and it's probably very true. and honestly, probably very much more apparent as the game grows in card pool. This is just one of those my brain and heart are kind of having a battle. It feels weird to me, but I can completely see the logic behind it. I also mentioned we'll probably see neutral cards that bow strongholds as well.

1 hour ago, BordOne said:

We already know that Dragon have one attachment that has action: bow to make another attachment cost 1 less.

Do we? Link?