Uthuk Y'llan Upgrades from Army Box

Uthuk only

2 Heavy, 1 Artifact, 2 Unique, 1 Champion

Generic

2 Heraldry, 1 Champion, 2 Equipment, 1 Music

Speculation:

For the 2 Heavy Upgrades it's almost certain that one will be a Ravos Upgrade with the other probably a Front Line or Support Spined Thresher.

The Artifact and Uniques are likely to be Ravos only upgrades.

As I'd expect all the Upgrades (except the Heavy) to be useable with buying a single box the Uthuk Champion will likely be a non-figure version. I'm gonna guess at a Blood Coven Witch with limited healing ability to mitigate the Berserker self flagellation.

For the Generic I'd expect most to be copies of cards we've already seen, this would mean:

Music – Metered March, Trumpets or Triumphant Cry
Champion – War Crier, File Leader or Dispatch Runner

For the Heraldry I'm pretty sure that one is the Bull Pennon which would make the other one of Cursed Signets, Heraldic Surcoats, Raven Tabards or Terrifying Heraldry.

Finally I'm guessing that one of the 2 Equipment Upgrades will be Fire Rune (to give the Uthuk a tiny amount of ranged ability) though it's anyone's guess what the other is.

Anyone else have any thoughts/speculation?

Seems like we aren't seeing them right or we are missing something. The upgrades available on these units:

Ravos: Artifact, Unique

Berzerkers: Heraldry, Equipment, Champion, Music, Heavy

Flesh Rippers: Unique, Training, Champion

Spined Threshers: Unique, Champion, Equipment

I think the Spined Thresher as a heavy is given. Ravos as heavy would mean only the biggest formation of infantry can take him I think he is the facedown champion. You are probably right on a lot of the other generics.

I think Uthuk are going to get a unique for Ravos and a unique not bound to Ravos in this box

42 minutes ago, Church14 said:

Seems like we aren't seeing them right or we are missing something. The upgrades available on these units:

Ravos: Artifact, Unique

Berzerkers: Heraldry, Equipment, Champion, Music, Heavy

Flesh Rippers: Unique, Training, Champion

Spined Threshers: Unique, Champion, Equipment

I think the Spined Thresher as a heavy is given. Ravos as heavy would mean only the biggest formation of infantry can take him I think he is the facedown champion. You are probably right on a lot of the other generics.

I think Uthuk are going to get a unique for Ravos and a unique not bound to Ravos in this box

I think you may be right on one of the Uniques being not for Ravos. With regard to the Heavy though I still think one of them is Ravos rather than the Champion as Ravos is a Siege unit.

Oooh here's an intriguing possibility, if he is the facedown champion what if he's a champion that can join siege units....?

The Flesh Rippers can take Unique upgrades, so either it's one for Ravos and one for Flesh Rippers, or it's one for Ravos and one Uthuk-only that either Ravos or Flesh Rippers can take.

Since the Aymhelin Scions get both Frontline and Support upgrades in the Army Box, I wager it's the same for Spined Threshers. Therefore, I think the Champion is Ravos.

Those are my predictions.

Or just two copies of the same thing since they eat their victims.
Uthuk only, when you kill one or more models after a (Melee) attack, restore one wound to yourself

Something tells me the Thresher will have something along those lines given that its got 3 dang maws...

I think both uniques will be for ravos. All the heroes have 2 we will have to wait for the flesh ripper box to use the unique upgrade slot.

1 hour ago, Klaxas said:

I think both uniques will be for ravos. All the heroes have 2 we will have to wait for the flesh ripper box to use the unique upgrade slot.

Good point. I could totally see that.

I think there will be more uniques than just for Ravos. If you look at the unit cards, the minimum tray count Flesh Rippers have a unique icon. Currently there are no uniques that are not tied to heroes so this might be the first set.

1 minute ago, whiteferret76 said:

I think there will be more uniques than just for Ravos. If you look at the unit cards, the minimum tray count Flesh Rippers have a unique icon. Currently there are no uniques that are not tied to heroes so this might be the first set.

Could be. But for example, the army boxes come with both heavy upgrades for the siege units but the core only came with one. We have to wait for the Rune Golems and Carrion Lancers Unit Expansions to get the other heavy upgrades. Similarly, it could be that the Flesh Rippers have to wait until their army box to get theirs. Because if Ravos doesn't get 2 Unique upgrades in the army box, where else would he get the second? But the Flesh Rippers still have a unit expansion coming.

15 minutes ago, whiteferret76 said:

I think there will be more uniques than just for Ravos. If you look at the unit cards, the minimum tray count Flesh Rippers have a unique icon. Currently there are no uniques that are not tied to heroes so this might be the first set.

Not strictly true the Latari Scions have Unique upgrades; Fertile Soil being one example we've already seen.

On 6/27/2017 at 1:24 PM, stet2 said:

Not strictly true the Latari Scions have Unique upgrades; Fertile Soil being one example we've already seen.

I correct myself and say Released.

I've been thinking more about how Ravos will work as an upgrade. As others have mentioned, it's possible he'll be a Heavy Upgrade, but he could also be a Champion. One thing that struck me recently is that Flesh Rippers (cavalry), Berserkers (infantry), and Spined Threshers (siege) all have the option of taking a Champion Upgrade. Given that there is one face-down Uthuk-only Champion Upgrade, I think it's Ravos and the icons in the lower corner of his upgrade card will indicate he can only go in Siege units in an Uthuk Y'llan army. That would mean the Berserkers and Flesh Rippers would need to wait for their own hero figure upgrade, though they could take neutral non-figure Champion Upgrades for now.

This leads me to consider what the next Uthuk Hero would be. I'm pretty sure it'll be Malaana, but it seems her mount will probably need to be cavalry to make use of the slot in the Flesh Rippers unit. Since the article mentioned chieftains and stuff riding Flesh Rippers, I wonder if Malaana won't be riding her scorpion, but will be riding a Flesh Ripper instead. I would be kind of devastated if that happened, but I can see the rationale for it. It would allow each Champion Upgade slot in the Uthuk units to be filled by a figure upgrade. I just can't imagine fitting a scorpion into a cavalry space; it would have to be a siege-sized base.

On the other hand, it's possible they just leave a Flesh Rippers figure upgrade for the third hero. Then both Malaana and Ravos can lead Spined Threshers into battle as siege figure upgrades, which would continue to help distinguish the Uthuk Y'llan from other armies, since they'd be the only one with siege figure upgrades but would have on cavalry figure upgrades. Plus, Malaana will likely have an infantry figure upgrade version, too.

I think Uthak may break some of the patterns the other 3 factions have set

Ravos would work fine as an infantry upgrade. He would pretty much fit in like the daqan spearmen using a rune golem. I see the Uthuk siege units have a champion slot, but that doesn't necessarily mean he is constrained to being a siege champion because of his base size.

In fact i'd practically guarantee what ywingscum said: uthuk are going to break certain patterns were used to.

I dont see why he would be a Siege upgrade, or a Champion thats limited to Siege units. That would actually give the Uthuk a lot less viability with their heroes...dunno bout you guys but im actually liking Kari as an upgrade because that +1 die and the surge ability is epic in a giant ball of spearmen

1 hour ago, flightmaster101 said:

Ravos would work fine as an infantry upgrade. He would pretty much fit in like the daqan spearmen using a rune golem. I see the Uthuk siege units have a champion slot, but that doesn't necessarily mean he is constrained to being a siege champion because of his base size.

That's what I assumed at first. But I was looking at the rules for figure upgrades in the learn to play guide and noticed that it very specifically calls out Heavy Upgrades as replacing a full tray from the upgraded unit. Ravos would only be able to to do that if he were a Heavy Upgrade. Other figure upgrades must fit into an existing slot in the unit, which means you can't put Ravos as a Champion Upgrade into an infantry unit because he doesn't fit in those slots. However, Spined Threshers conspicuously have a Champion Upgrade option. Now, it could very well be that they are intended to just use that slot for non-figure upgrades, but why them and not the other 3 siege units we've seen? It's quite peculiar. Given that Ravos is a siege unit, it makes perfect sense that his upgrade is only for siege units and that's why they have the Champion Upgrade option on their costing table.

It's true that it means there is less versatility in the core box, because you can't put the Spined Thresher in the Berserkers unit without two Army Expansions, and you can't put Ravos in the Spined Threshers unit without buying a Spined Threshers Unit Expansion on top of that. But I think it's important to look at what this box does for the army as a whole and not get caught up in the 100-point, out-of-the-box, skirmish experience, especially since the Uthuk Army base units already clock in at 107 points. The void created by having the Ravos upgrade not fit in an infantry unit will soon be filled by whatever second hero they release, and it will likely also give the cavalry a figure upgrade hero as well.

We may get Ravos as a hero figure upgrade for infantry if one of the two Heavy Upgrade cards is a second Ravos upgrade and the other is either Front Line Spined Thresher or Support Spined Thresher. Since the Latari have both types of Heavy Upgrades for their siege unit, I'm inclined to think the same will hold true for the Uthuk, but it may not because, as we've established, the Uthuk are breaking some new ground in this game. But I do not think that his Champion Upgrade will have special rules that allow you to treat him like a Heavy Upgrade because that feels way too clunky to me. The rules in place dictate that he's siege-only as a Champion, or he has to be a Heavy Upgrade.

1 hour ago, Budgernaut said:

That's what I assumed at first. But I was looking at the rules for figure upgrades in the learn to play guide and noticed that it very specifically calls out Heavy Upgrades as replacing a full tray from the upgraded unit. Ravos would only be able to to do that if he were a Heavy Upgrade. Other figure upgrades must fit into an existing slot in the unit, which means you can't put Ravos as a Champion Upgrade into an infantry unit because he doesn't fit in those slots. However, Spined Threshers conspicuously have a Champion Upgrade option. Now, it could very well be that they are intended to just use that slot for non-figure upgrades, but why them and not the other 3 siege units we've seen? It's quite peculiar. Given that Ravos is a siege unit, it makes perfect sense that his upgrade is only for siege units and that's why they have the Champion Upgrade option on their costing table.

Good catch in the rule book.

If I know FFG they will devise something like: Ravos siege upgrade, x cost, whatever ability, plus you cannot equip a champion (or champion figure) upgrade.

Edit: in fact the more I think of that the more I like it. That would lead to some interesting squad building compromises.

Their command expansion should be interesting

1 hour ago, Ywingscum said:

Their command expansion should be interesting

I'm so excited for that! I thought their Berserkers were a bit dull, and then I realized that all the melee infantry were like that. A big part of what makes Reanimates and Spearmen cool are the faction-specific upgrades that come in the infantry command pack. I bet they'll be a ton of fun!

10 hours ago, Budgernaut said:

That's what I assumed at first. But I was looking at the rules for figure upgrades in the learn to play guide and noticed that it very specifically calls out Heavy Upgrades as replacing a full tray from the upgraded unit. Ravos would only be able to to do that if he were a Heavy Upgrade. Other figure upgrades must fit into an existing slot in the unit, which means you can't put Ravos as a Champion Upgrade into an infantry unit because he doesn't fit in those slots. However, Spined Threshers conspicuously have a Champion Upgrade option. Now, it could very well be that they are intended to just use that slot for non-figure upgrades, but why them and not the other 3 siege units we've seen? It's quite peculiar. Given that Ravos is a siege unit, it makes perfect sense that his upgrade is only for siege units and that's why they have the Champion Upgrade option on their costing table.

"Figure Upgrades
Some upgrade cards contain a silhouette of
a figure; these are figure upgrades. Figure
upgrades are equipped in the same way as
other upgrade cards; however, when a unit
equips such an upgrade, the plastic figure
associated with that silhouette is added to the
that unit. The plastic figure can be slotted into
any tray in the unit’s front rank, replacing any
other figure that would otherwise be there."

Also from the l2p. Notice it says figure upgrades can be sloted into "any tray" not "any slot". This implies that Ravos will work perfectly fine as a champion upgrade for an infantry unit. It is also entirely possible that his command upgrade will have both the siege and infantry symbols.

Nowhere in the rules does it tell you to get a new tray if your upgrade doesn't fit into the upgraded unit's tray. To the contrary, it only specifically mentions getting a different tray for heavy upgrades. Otherwise, you build the unit, pull out units from the front rank, and place your figure upgrades in those trays.

Plus, figure upgrades all have a symbol indicating which type of unit they can upgrade, and we've even seen two models for the same hero just to get a different base. And the heroes who have that two different models (Ankaur and Hawthorne) also have two separate upgrades: one for infantry and one for cavalry. Even if Ravos turns out to be a heavy upgrade (which I highly doubt), he will still probably be infantry-only like the other heavy upgrades for siege units. You won't be able to just put him in any unit.

EDIT: 38.3 is clear about how figure upgrades replace units. "While a figure upgrade is equipped to a unit, the figure that corresponds to that upgrade must be slotted in that unit's front rank, replacing the default figure that would otherwise be slotted there."

22 minutes ago, Budgernaut said:

Plus, figure upgrades all have a symbol indicating which type of unit they can upgrade, and we've even seen two models for the same hero just to get a different base. And the heroes who have that two different models (Ankaur and Hawthorne) also have two separate upgrades: one for infantry and one for cavalry. Even if Ravos turns out to be a heavy upgrade (which I highly doubt), he will still probably be infantry-only like the other heavy upgrades for siege units. You won't be able to just put him in any unit.

The reason for two different figures so far has been because of the akwardness of putting a cavalry tray into an infantry army for one figure. It would leave you with an empty slot. Siege figures don't have this problem as they take up the entire tray, therefore they can have just one card for multiple unit types.

This also wont be the first time they have tweaked the main rules with a release.

19 minutes ago, Orcdruid said:

The reason for two different figures so far has been because of the akwardness of putting a cavalry tray into an infantry army for one figure. It would leave you with an empty slot. Siege figures don't have this problem as they take up the entire tray, therefore they can have just one card for multiple unit types.

I think it would be even more awkward trying to fit a siege unit into an infantry tray.

58 minutes ago, Orcdruid said:

"Figure Upgrades
Some upgrade cards contain a silhouette of
a figure; these are figure upgrades. Figure
upgrades are equipped in the same way as
other upgrade cards; however, when a unit
equips such an upgrade, the plastic figure
associated with that silhouette is added to the
that unit. The plastic figure can be slotted into
any tray in the unit’s front rank, replacing any
other figure that would otherwise be there."

Also from the l2p. Notice it says figure upgrades can be sloted into "any tray" not "any slot". This implies that Ravos will work perfectly fine as a champion upgrade for an infantry unit. It is also entirely possible that his command upgrade will have both the siege and infantry symbols.

I still feel he will be a heavy for infantry, but that is rather than a champion, but that is really a non issue, a unique heavy upgrade (mostly to ensure unit size?). We already can't have hero in the field, and hero in the unit, so it stands to extend the champion upgrade is not what makes that unique alone. There are a few Armada cards that can be commanders/other, and you only get 1.