I think until we see command tools and upgrades any "this is weak" impression is based on FAAAAR too much speculation....

13 minutes ago, rowdyoctopus said:

I haven't played many games, but am I missing something? Panic tokens seem weak compared to blight. And the berserker ability is pretty weak as well. Any offensive abilities these figures has is easily balanced out by the low armor. Any old attack is likely to make wounds stick.

Loss of faith, betrayal, the cards that force a reform and occasionally a march...I've done a lot of damage to units without rolling a single hit.

Sev1 tests generally dont do anything except stack more tokens. Largely, theyre moot which is why firing into a combat isnt that big of a deal since spamming your units in the combat with Sev1 tests is rarely an issue.

Sev2 and 3 tests can easily screw you over. You can lose an entire tray, get repositioned by your opponent, lose upgrade cards, etc etc. Ive killed Lancers in the past with kari by causing 2 wounds and a Sev2 test due to a failed charge panic token lying around letting me Reform him to face a barricade...before he moved....so he charged right into the barricade and died lol
Similarly ive had units get flanked and immediately get their flank denied because my first attack at them forced a Reform in my favor, removing their flank status since they were no longer facing me.

My favorite severity 1 morale card is the one that assigns a stun token. A large block of spearman was going to charge my Reanimates, but my archers had dealt that morale card, so when they revealed their command tool, I spent the stun token to make it a march instead of a charge. Next round I spent two blight from them so they rolled no attack dice - two rounds in a row of no attacks from his main offensive force! Yeah, I think morale tests and panic tokens are good stuff.

Oh, and on that subject, I think Ravos' Ynfernael Presence is great, too. It seems many think of it as wasted because Daqan can rally/Hawthorne it away, but I like to think of it as -1 inspiration token. If they rally first turn, they get rid of the panic, but gain no token. Next round, if Ravos has done his 4-speed march, he should be in range to start feasting on his enemies, letting loose with his scythe, perhaps even dialing in his double-morale modifier. Not to mention the fact that Waiqar's slow forces are either made slower by rallying, or made vulnerable to more severe morale tests. It forces your opponent to make a choice they wouldn't usually have to, and that's a good opportunity to play mind games.

7 minutes ago, Parakitor said:

Oh, and on that subject, I think Ravos' Ynfernael Presence is great, too. It seems many think of it as wasted because Daqan can rally/Hawthorne it away, but I like to think of it as -1 inspiration token. If they rally first turn, they get rid of the panic, but gain no token. Next round, if Ravos has done his 4-speed march, he should be in range to start feasting on his enemies, letting loose with his scythe, perhaps even dialing in his double-morale modifier. Not to mention the fact that Waiqar's slow forces are either made slower by rallying, or made vulnerable to more severe morale tests. It forces your opponent to make a choice they wouldn't usually have to, and that's a good opportunity to play mind games.

Also advantageous if you're playing a scenario where you need to race to some objective. Opponent has to spend a turn rallying, or race forward with that panic to try to contest objectives.

32 minutes ago, rowdyoctopus said:

I haven't played many games, but am I missing something? Panic tokens seem weak compared to blight. And the berserker ability is pretty weak as well. Any offensive abilities these figures has is easily balanced out by the low armor. Any old attack is likely to make wounds stick.

Panic is pretty random. Maybe most of the time it doesn't do much, but maybe every 1 in four or five panic tests it's just downright nasty and can significantly alter the game in ways that wounds alone just don't. Here's 3 examples of game altering panic outcomes that I have seen in games:

1. A unit of oathsworn maneuvering around my flank took a stun token from an archer inflicted panic test that prevented them from wheeling. They collided with the edge of the board, had to shift for a turn to get out and then spent 2 more turns repositioning, meanwhile taking shots that whittled them down to almost nothing, and piled on so much blight that the last one standing had no dice to roll when he finally did contact. This also bought time for my reanimates to pretty much wipe out the rest of his army unmolested.

2. Similar to situation 1, a group of oathsworn set up to charge my reanimates and recieved a stun token, taking their charge away, but still collided with reanimates who wiped them out in melee without suffering any damage.

3. With just Ardus and a carrion lancer left, my carrion lancer gets charged by a block of spearmen missing one tray. The carrion lancers survives the charge and manages to pull out the panic card that turns the spearmen so that the 1-tray side is engaged with the lancer. This meant the lancer now added a red die, while the spearmen lost their threat and re-roll. The lone carrion lancer wiped out the rest of the spearmen and never took another wound.

Can someone explain to me why people are complaining that the Uthuk Y'llan expansion is $10 more than the Latari Elves expansion? As far as I can tell, they're the same price...

Mustve changed it, yesterday it was 69.95. So... woot

Good cause that was weird.

Dont care if the hero is a siege model, from what we can tell so far he has absolutely no special impact any other hero wouldnt have (such as 2 army builder perks or something). The guy is massive so hes a siege, nothing more.

Yeah. Weird. I thought they were over that phase of testing the waters with higher prices. ...or was this another troll move like their Unbreakable Bonds announcement last Friday?

I mean the two tray Siege unit expansions cost $10 more than the regular size unit expansions...

2 minutes ago, rowdyoctopus said:

I mean the two tray Siege unit expansions cost $10 more than the regular size unit expansions...

They also have a new model, requiring a new mold, which could account for the increased cost. Ravos is just as new as Aliana, so why would they charge extra for that new mold and not for Aliana?

Plus theyre less likely to sell multiples of them. Someone having more than 6 siege models will be rather unusual, and even 6 might be odd for most people.
I can only assume the Heroes are 25 due to FFG not being douches about it like certain other companies are. Plastic-wise, theres considerably less stuff in the hero box than any other, less trays too. In 40k, a character can cost as much as a troop expansion if not more...for a SINGLE MODEL thats barely larger than the 10-12 models you could have got for the same price. Why? Because characters are unique, they know you will probably only buy 1 in most cases so gotta hyke that price up!

Added to Tabletop Admiral

5 hours ago, Vineheart01 said:

Latari starter box is coming out soon, as is the daqan/waiqar siege boxes. That leaves Latari command, their 2nd hero, standalones for starter army units, Uthuk army, Uthuk command, Uthuk standalone boxes, Uthuk 2nd hero, and Uthuk archer (possibly the spellcasters i mentioned?). Thats friggen 12 things that need to come out to bring all 4 armies to the same level before anything new for Daqans/Waiqar can come out lol. 14 if you count crossbowmen/DKs i guess.
However, once you get to that point, we can start getting standard waves like for other games. One box per faction in each wave: they dont have to be the same kind of unit but it keeps the number of units to pick from the same and thats important.

You forgot the elven melee units.

I think they dropped the crossbowmen and dk articles for the same reason that they dropped the elf article, to prove that they're comming. The articles, to me, said every faction will get every unit type in their own flavor.

5 hours ago, Vineheart01 said:

Uthuk archer (possibly the spellcasters i mentioned?)

I'm banking on Viper Legion for the Uthuk Archer. I think spellcasters will be their own unit type, separate from archers. I'm hoping to see Malaana on her scorpion mount and both her and the Viper Legion utilizing a poison-based bane.

9 hours ago, Vineheart01 said:

i wouldnt call this power creep at all.

Uthuk clearly hit hard and have more dice, but dude they are so easy to kill right now. We are used to doing 1-2 wounds to a multiwound model max because of 3+ armor, with 2 armor even average damage will do 2 wounds from a random 2x2 of spearmen. Nevermind the 4x1 Cavalry or 3x3 Sieged Up Spearmen doing 20+ damage lol. And of course the beforementioned Executioner loving the Uthuk and Deathknights will hit really hard as well (which will be definitely out before uthuk)

I feel like the elves and Uthuk will get a 4th unit very quickly. Probably see the elf one first, in a few weeks? Followed by Uthuk. Elf command was announced almost instantly, heck wasn't their hero 2 up before daqan/waiqur. I think there may be a brief catchup lag, or uthuk/elves getting double releases a bit more often, then settling in for 1 of each at a time, say next Q2

4 hours ago, Budgernaut said:

I'm banking on Viper Legion for the Uthuk Archer. I think spellcasters will be their own unit type, separate from archers. I'm hoping to see Malaana on her scorpion mount and both her and the Viper Legion utilizing a poison-based bane.

Viper legion?

53 minutes ago, TallGiraffe said:

Viper legion?

They're mentioned in the Lore Guide. They are archers that shoot arrows tipped with the heads of venomous serpents.

EDIT: My current avatar is also an image of a Viper Legion archer.

I'd bet on Blood Sisters being the "spellcaster" champion upgrade in an Uthuk Infantry Command pack, not an individual unit. I think a Grotesque would make for a nice warrior-type champion upgrade. They're about the same size as a Berserker, just tougher and more spikey. An Obscene would be too large.

8 hours ago, Budgernaut said:

They're mentioned in the Lore Guide. They are archers that shoot arrows tipped with the heads of venomous serpents.

EDIT: My current avatar is also an image of a Viper Legion archer.

Aww I thought they were actually shooting snakes...i'm slightly disappointed now.

16 hours ago, Vineheart01 said:

Plus theyre less likely to sell multiples of them. Someone having more than 6 siege models will be rather unusual, and even 6 might be odd for most people.
I can only assume the Heroes are 25 due to FFG not being douches about it like certain other companies are. Plastic-wise, theres considerably less stuff in the hero box than any other, less trays too. In 40k, a character can cost as much as a troop expansion if not more...for a SINGLE MODEL thats barely larger than the 10-12 models you could have got for the same price. Why? Because characters are unique, they know you will probably only buy 1 in most cases so gotta hyke that price up!

Economy of scale, if people are buying multiple it can be cheaper as you cost less per unit to produce. So it makes sense characters cost more. Not just jacking up the price.

(I have 3x daqan xbow on order, but only bought 1 Hawthorne)

Does the snake bite when the arrow hits? Haha

@Ywingscum & @jek

I think they may occasionally shoot live snakes. There was a lore card in BattleLore that said if you poisoned a unit, you could poison two other units up to two hexes away from the target. I always imagined that lore card as representing that snakes slithered away and bit other targets.

12 minutes ago, Budgernaut said:

@Ywingscum & @jek

I think they may occasionally shoot live snakes. There was a lore card in BattleLore that said if you poisoned a unit, you could poison two other units up to two hexes away from the target. I always imagined that lore card as representing that snakes slithered away and bit other targets.

IJust wanted them to be goofy, shooting snakes it's even more improbable than shooting arrows with snake heads on the tip...

In Conan Tulsa Doom shot a snake turned into an arrow. Poisoning its target and when pulled out it turned back to a snake