Everytime I think we have figured out all the ways the jumpmaster negatively impacts the game, there is always another thing that is brought to the forefront. It's going to be hilarious if FFG continues to nerf everything around it and still don't touch it directly.

Question to the folks who have been running these sorts of lists:

How does the triple Imperial archetype look of you swap out one ship for a pair of TIE Fighters? The Academies move before most everything and blocking the Jumpmaster and preventing it using an action to generate Focus. They're academy pilots, so they're not great, but they're not total trash, and area control can be a big deal.

The fact that your opponent knows you know with intel is huge. I brought trip jumps (double intel) to Mustafar. Played the guy who made top 4 with palp,soontir, marek. At one point in the game, he's trying to pick an unexpected move that I can't block, stops, looks up at me and goes, 'oh, but you're just going to see it anyways.' The intel means you're not only blocking their optimal moves, but they can't even get cute with their moves to get away.

Intel on YT-2400 has been around for awhile. Just not cheap, but whats a block on Fenn worth to keep him out of the fight while you take care of Manaroo or Asajj, etc. Its even worse with Cassian crew able to change your dial by guessing like the one move you cant get too. Im currently playtesting a WSF with cassian, rigged cargo, and APL. Ridiculous. I tossed the ARC caster on there just to test it out. I figure the WSF can get a 4 dice shot off, enough HP to take a damage if nobody else around. And when he does block, can take a disabled token to recharge the ARC. Finding the wingmen to go alongside him is another story.

Wild Space Fringer (30) w/ ARC Caster (2) , Cassian Andor (2) , Rigged Cargo Chute (1) , Smuggling Compartment (0) , Anti-Pursuit Lasers (2)

Total: 37

As for Kylo crew. I dont think there has been enough testing, but if it becomes a thing for imperials like Palp Shuttle did. Determination instantly shuts it down. There was no instant shutdown for Palp.

"Whisper" (32) w/ Veteran Instincts (1) , Fire-Control System (2) , Kylo Ren (3) , Advanced Cloaking Device (4)

Omicron Group Pilot (21) , Advanced Sensors (3) , Tractor Beam (1) , General Hux (5)

"Omega Leader" (21) , Juke (2) , Comm Relay (3)

Total: 98

Swapping Palp shuttle for Adv. Sensors Hux, give Omega leader his much needed focus going into that first engagement. Whisper gets her focus, then at PS9, with initiative moving last, can kylo anyone on the board. Kylo also lets her check range since she doesnt have a lock. Barely outside range 3? Cloak up! Dont take the chance and then be uncloaked!

The devotion goes to the shuttle who can get a hit through even on Fenn at range 3 through a rock. And speaking of rocks, that tractor beam is unblockable, so any Miranda, Fenn, etc that is close to a rock gets tossed on it. This changes their entire approach. And its only 1 pt wasted for large ship matchups, not bad.

We aren't forcing the crit, it will come naturally, instead you play the game like you normally do with Whisper and OL. Get blinded pilot out there and you will benefit when it happens. Not only that, but it goes through shields, so Whisper with Kylo vs any regen ship endgame is dead. Whisper with a TL is 50% to get a crit.

9 hours ago, wurms said:

Intel on YT-2400 has been around for awhile. Just not cheap, but whats a block on Fenn worth to keep him out of the fight while you take care of Manaroo or Asajj, etc. Its even worse with Cassian crew able to change your dial by guessing like the one move you cant get too. Im currently playtesting a WSF with cassian, rigged cargo, and APL. Ridiculous. I tossed the ARC caster on there just to test it out. I figure the WSF can get a 4 dice shot off, enough HP to take a damage if nobody else around. And when he does block, can take a disabled token to recharge the ARC. Finding the wingmen to go alongside him is another story.

Wild Space Fringer (30) w/ ARC Caster (2) , Cassian Andor (2) , Rigged Cargo Chute (1) , Smuggling Compartment (0) , Anti-Pursuit Lasers (2)

Total: 37

As for Kylo crew. I dont think there has been enough testing, but if it becomes a thing for imperials like Palp Shuttle did. Determination instantly shuts it down. There was no instant shutdown for Palp.

"Whisper" (32) w/ Veteran Instincts (1) , Fire-Control System (2) , Kylo Ren (3) , Advanced Cloaking Device (4)

Omicron Group Pilot (21) , Advanced Sensors (3) , Tractor Beam (1) , General Hux (5)

"Omega Leader" (21) , Juke (2) , Comm Relay (3)

Total: 98

Swapping Palp shuttle for Adv. Sensors Hux, give Omega leader his much needed focus going into that first engagement. Whisper gets her focus, then at PS9, with initiative moving last, can kylo anyone on the board. Kylo also lets her check range since she doesnt have a lock. Barely outside range 3? Cloak up! Dont take the chance and then be uncloaked!

The devotion goes to the shuttle who can get a hit through even on Fenn at range 3 through a rock. And speaking of rocks, that tractor beam is unblockable, so any Miranda, Fenn, etc that is close to a rock gets tossed on it. This changes their entire approach. And its only 1 pt wasted for large ship matchups, not bad.

We aren't forcing the crit, it will come naturally, instead you play the game like you normally do with Whisper and OL. Get blinded pilot out there and you will benefit when it happens. Not only that, but it goes through shields, so Whisper with Kylo vs any regen ship endgame is dead. Whisper with a TL is 50% to get a crit.

Nice listbuilding. The part that makes me cry though is you get a scout with torps and mindlink, that also does that for the same price as that one trick WSF. So sad. Still wish FFG would have put a 3 or 4 point discount for all ships ps 2 and lower who equipped smuggling compartment.

2 hours ago, Biophysical said:

I get what you're saying, but Krayts aren't alone in saying he's dead in the water. Other podcasts are saying it like the sky is blue. He's only 34 points, and is amazing at what he does. You've got 66 points to cover those weaknesses.

I played a store championship two weeks ago, I got Rey Jan, Scum jank with non-title Dengar, Fenn, and permacloak Palob, Rey Poe, and Rey Miranda (TLT and Threepio).

I played Rebel regen and missed the cut on MoV, but if I drew the same matchups I would run the table with Howard aces.

I think we agree here, but I think all the podcasts are saying Soontir is dead because a few popular meta calls hard counter him (and to a lesser extent the Palp nerf). He isn't significantly worse against a Blair Bunke style list, or a fat turret, and he has a really good matchup against scum alpha.

Soontir isn't 'bad,' because he's a bad ship - he's bad in this meta, mostly because he can't sustain damage output (ditto for the pre-nerf x7 meta).

Similarly, soontir (or any squishy ace for that matter), can be nowhere in range 2 of manaroo.

I promise you I can, and have, block and kill soontir with my manaroo (literally just intel, but the rest is gravy).

I know the main reason Duncan put down his beloved soontir was originally x7 defenders, and he stayed down because of the increased number of hard targets (particularly latts assaj), and now because of bump masters.

in a different meta? Soontir could easily be back.

Any thoughts on the janky but kinda brutal and probably unfun (for the other player) Scimitar TIE Shuttle with Intel Agent and Boshek? I haven't tried it myself, but I think @wurms did a few weeks back. The idea is that you look at the dial to maximize blocking with the Scimitar's barrel roll, and then when the bumped ship activates, you decide if you want to Boshek based on what you saw when you looked during yoru activation. They're pretty much screwed, and are going to have a really hard time making any plans.

You can also do screwy stuff like look at a dial and then shift your own dial if your own ship happens to be touching the Scimitar, which you can do on purpose pretty easily by ramming the Scimitar into a higher PS ship.

It's only 19 points, 21 with Lightweight Frame if your opponents decide they really hate it.

To Chris Allen, both of my boats were 33 points.

In mentioning the double bump scouts with mindlink partnered with a mindlinked Asajj, I came up with these two versions:

Asajj w/ Title and 1 Scout w/ Tact Jammer

Asajj w/ Gyro and Both Scouts w/ Ion Projectors

It's something I might try soon-ish.

34 minutes ago, Burius1981 said:

To Chris Allen, both of my boats were 33 points.

Oh no, then I would only have won if I were better at the game! MUST LISTBUILDER HARDER TO AVOID GITTING GUD.

Congrats again

22 minutes ago, Brunas said:

Oh no, then I would only have won if I were better at the game! MUST LISTBUILDER HARDER TO AVOID GITTING GUD.

Congrats again

If you get that Fenn Rekt card printed I want one

Good games.

3 hours ago, Biophysical said:

Question to the folks who have been running these sorts of lists:

How does the triple Imperial archetype look of you swap out one ship for a pair of TIE Fighters? The Academies move before most everything and blocking the Jumpmaster and preventing it using an action to generate Focus. They're academy pilots, so they're not great, but they're not total trash, and area control can be a big deal.

Been playing around with 3-4 ace + ties lists, I don't think you'll have much success with the blockers. With double or trip ace builds (at least the traditional push/thrusters sort) you're generally going for such a long game that the few turns of good positioning the TIEs give you is mostly wasted, because the game has such high turn counts, if that makes sense. It might work better with these dumb new jousty imperial "aces", but I don't particularly care for them and haven't tried to be honest.

1 hour ago, Tlfj200 said:

Soontir isn't 'bad,' because he's a bad ship - he's bad in this meta, mostly because he can't sustain damage output (ditto for the pre-nerf x7 meta).

Similarly, soontir (or any squishy ace for that matter), can be nowhere in range 2 of manaroo.

I promise you I can, and have, block and kill soontir with my manaroo (literally just intel, but the rest is gravy).

I know the main reason Duncan put down his beloved soontir was originally x7 defenders, and he stayed down because of the increased number of hard targets (particularly latts assaj), and now because of bump masters.

in a different meta? Soontir could easily be back.

Yeah, Soontir might even be good now. Funnily enough, as much as we complained about Asajj and bombs, Soontir's main problem was Vessery and Ryad costing more and not being able to close the game against them.

Meta is cyclical. As more players move into running high PS alpha strikes, this tends to drive out the bomb and stress carriers because they get single rounded so easily. As few players bring bombs and stress, arc dodgy Imperial aces become more viable.

2 hours ago, Tlfj200 said:

Soontir isn't 'bad,' because he's a bad ship - he's bad in this meta, mostly because he can't sustain damage output (ditto for the pre-nerf x7 meta).

Similarly, soontir (or any squishy ace for that matter), can be nowhere in range 2 of manaroo.

I promise you I can, and have, block and kill soontir with my manaroo (literally just intel, but the rest is gravy).

I know the main reason Duncan put down his beloved soontir was originally x7 defenders, and he stayed down because of the increased number of hard targets (particularly latts assaj), and now because of bump masters.

in a different meta? Soontir could easily be back.

In addition to the X7, Miranda with bombs got some attention after taking 2nd at Worlds and is a very hard Soontir counter since he has a very tough time avioding this and still being an effective fighter (and I think Duncun even tried to make this case on a Mynock thread but it didn't get well received or wasn't understood). Now, though, I think that people are finding some options to include him since the Imperials have some decent ships that can run alongside him.

Yeah, I forget who said it first, but just because one ship in your list is suceptible to bombs doesn't mean your entire list is susceptible to bombs.

20 hours ago, Brunas said:

and it doesn't really matter if Corran is stressed here, he just happened to be.

Just wanted to point out it does, as an Advanced Sensors Corran without stress would just barrel roll prior to maneuvering to avoid the block. But otherwise, considering other ships, I get your point about how effective it is.

43 minutes ago, defkhan1 said:

Yeah, I forget who said it first, but just because one ship in your list is suceptible to bombs doesn't mean your entire list is susceptible to bombs.

I don't know if I was first, but I have been saying that a lot lately.

Stridan-fcs,kylo,Intel agent,title

Whisper-veteran instincts,ACD,FCS

Critty mccritter ace- vi

Coordinate the focus to crit pants, he zooms out and gets his target lock..there's 2-3 crits there at p.s. 9 for like 21 points.

Is this the sort of thing you all are on about?

25 minutes ago, Velvetelvis said:

Stridan-fcs,kylo,Intel agent,title

Whisper-veteran instincts,ACD,FCS

Critty mccritter ace- vi

Coordinate the focus to crit pants, he zooms out and gets his target lock..there's 2-3 crits there at p.s. 9 for like 21 points.

Is this the sort of thing you all are on about?

You cant coordinate critty mccritter ace and then use Kylo for IWSYTDS in the same turn.

I hate to be a downer, but theres MORE uses for Kylo AND for the shuttle people haven't thought of. I've never even heard of this 38 pt shuttle, but I've played Omicron and Upsilons for months now. I had to relearn the Upsilon as a different thing to the Omicron, but I tell you now, saying that a 38 Upsilon is the only Upsilon worth taking is just utter dog brick. There are literal options there with movement/deployment changes that you guys ahven't tested.

That said, that QD with Score Settle is kinda interesting. Especially as a Vessery derp. And I'd always take LWF on SFs, sure you blind one guy, but the rest of their team wants to shoot something.

As for Kylo, you can make a super useful Kylo boat by putting him on a 19pt bomber-shuttle. If they focus him, whatever, get your crit off (which makes it harder to focus him down) and they aren't shooting your more powerful stuff. And you save easily 15 points compared to an Upsilon.

Lambda I haven't played with Kylo, is it worth it?

Just finished listening. Really nice discussion on Intel Agent.

Regarding Imperial listbuilding, there's a lot more going on with the current triple aces lists than you give it credit for. Like the QD/OL/Vess list that you mention (a list I've been running for weeks). It's not three ships thrown together haphazardly, it's three ships that work incredibly well together. I cannot stress enough how good QD and Vess complement each other. But I suppose the point was that you put together three things worth a total of ~100 points and they're still worth ~100 points together (i.e. they're not borderline broken like some other things). That might be the case, but with good piloting they can still tango with broken ships (as SC results are showing us). Mindlink/Jumps seem to be dominating SCs primarily in your neck of the woods. Not so much the midwest.

As for Kylo, I'm curious what people think of the future of the card. Once Wave 11 hits, one of Kylo's biggest counters, Biggs, will be getting a huge buff. How will Kylo get around unkillable Biggs?

7 hours ago, Blail Blerg said:

I hate to be a downer, but theres MORE uses for Kylo AND for the shuttle people haven't thought of. I've never even heard of this 38 pt shuttle, but I've played Omicron and Upsilons for months now. I had to relearn the Upsilon as a different thing to the Omicron, but I tell you now, saying that a 38 Upsilon is the only Upsilon worth taking is just utter dog brick. There are literal options there with movement/deployment changes that you guys ahven't tested.

Expand! I have been running a 34pt Upsilon to moderate success (Starkiller, FCS, Pattern analyser) as a support for the 2 named SF's. I've been thinking of switching to an expert g as nailing Kylo to actually keep things in arc for more than a round or two and dropping to Sabacc /OL for the other ship. Would love to hear more options!

Also, I think we've mentioned this video before, but on the topic of negativity, Kibler's view on negativity in Hearthstone is still incredibly relevant universally, and in X-Wing:

https://youtu.be/Kmqz4Fun94k

7 hours ago, Goseki1 said:

Expand! I have been running a 34pt Upsilon to moderate success (Starkiller, FCS, Pattern analyser) as a support for the 2 named SF's. I've been thinking of switching to an expert g as nailing Kylo to actually keep things in arc for more than a round or two and dropping to Sabacc /OL for the other ship. Would love to hear more options!

Used to run "ridin dirty ren" up until the palp and x7 faq

Col detector, Pattern analyzer, palp, expert handling

Juke relay omega L, delta x7

Ren could do incredibly silly things woth debris, but the list is far more clunky now that the x7 can no longer abuse debris like Kylo can and palp is far clunkier making it more difficult to trigger kylo