This came up in a game this morning. Ardus Ix'Erebus is in the terrain, and Kari Wraithstalker is nearby. She does a ranged attack on somebody else, then Ardus charges out of the terrain. Now, when you march out of terrain, your back edge must be touching the terrain.

• Question 1: Can a unit successfully charge another unit upon exiting terrain?

Here's a picture:

Technically, he can pivot around that little point, keeping his back edge touching the terrain, while making sure his front edge hit Kari. We ruled this was correct. Were we right?

• Question 2: Can Kari Wraithstalker activate her Wraith Step skill from her upgrade to get behind Ardus?

This ability instructs that she be picked up and placed so that she is touching and aligned with the back edge of a unit she is already engaged with. That means squaring up with Ardus' back edge right? Unfortunately, she would be overlapping terrain, so we ruled that in this instance, she would be unable to perform her Wraith Step ability. Were we correct?

You cannot charge out of terrain.

I think the rule is that you cannot be touching any other obstacles when you leave terrain.

I would also argue you cannot wraith step to that position.

1 hour ago, Asmo said:

You cannot charge out of terrain.

I hear this, but I haven't found it in the rulebook.

Oh wait, here we go.

"81.4: When a unit exits a piece of terrain, that unit cannot be overlapping or touching any other obstacle."

And if I had thought to go look up Obstacle, as @rowdyoctopus suggested, I would have found:

"59.1: Obstacles include: Other units, both enemy and allied."

Sheesh. This rules reference is nice, but it could definitely be more user friendly. So when people say "You cannot charge out of terrain," they are technically correct, but the rule is that you cannot be touching any other obstacles when you exit terrain (including other units). So Ardus couldn't have done that charge.

And I think the Kari question was pretty straightforward. Of course, it would never have come up if we hadn't broken the rules in the first place

Thanks, all!

If you want to get technical, you can charge out of terrain, however since you can't be placed touching an obstacle(I.E. an enemy unit) you fail the charge and take a panic token.

You cannot SUCCESSFULLY charge out of terrain!

10 hours ago, Orcdruid said:

If you want to get technical, you can charge out of terrain, however since you can't be placed touching an obstacle(I.E. an enemy unit) you fail the charge and take a panic token.

I was about to write the same thing, but since you don't perform the action as normal, why would you carry out the modifier as normal?

There is one unit that can get a charge out of Terrain.

Heavy Crossbowmen. Give them the Aggressive Cornicen and dial in Move or Shift to exit the terrain and then the White 1 March to contact the opposing unit. The Aggressive Cornicen makes this a charge.


If it's the 3x2 unit you can add Citadel Weapons Master, Tempered Steel and Moment of Inspiration to the unit. It's charge attack would then be Threat 3 with 1 set of re-rolls, 1 Red, 1 Blue and 1 White die with the ability to change 1 surge to a hit.

Plus if you exit the terrain in such a way that the March Modifier will give a Flank Charge you can add an extra Red or Blue dice to the attack.

1 hour ago, stet2 said:

There is one unit that can get a charge out of Terrain.

Heavy Crossbowmen. Give them the Aggressive Cornicen and dial in Move or Shift to exit the terrain and then the White 1 March to contact the opposing unit. The Aggressive Cornicen makes this a charge.


If it's the 3x2 unit you can add Citadel Weapons Master, Tempered Steel and Moment of Inspiration to the unit. It's charge attack would then be Threat 3 with 1 set of re-rolls, 1 Red, 1 Blue and 1 White die with the ability to change 1 surge to a hit.

Plus if you exit the terrain in such a way that the March Modifier will give a Flank Charge you can add an extra Red or Blue dice to the attack.

That's a lot of points to charge your melee unit into combat...

15 minutes ago, jek said:

That's a lot of points to charge your melee unit into combat...

It's not really a Melee unit. Primarily it's a missile unit. Thinking about it I'd probably drop Tempered Steel for Fire Rune which would make it 68 points. Stick it in the Forest and dial in Ranged Attack followed by Skill to activate the Fire Rune.

Then if someone gets close ready to try winkle you out of the forest you spring the charge from cover.

To be honest I'm not sure I'd take it in a Daqan army I was just giving an instance where a unit could charge from terrain.

However, depending on how FFG rule regarding upgrades for non-faction units it might be worth putting some variation in a Waiqar army using Ankaur Maro. Stick a Reanimate unit next to it with Profane Banner Bearer and Heartseeker Ankaur Behind them to raise dead. The enemy ranged attacks have to target the Reanimates while you fire at them with impunity. When they try to close combat you you spring out of the terrain and charge them.

Might be worth trying at some point.

2 minutes ago, stet2 said:

It's not really a Melee unit. Primarily it's a missile unit. Thinking about it I'd probably drop Tempered Steel for Fire Rune which would make it 68 points. Stick it in the Forest and dial in Ranged Attack followed by Skill to activate the Fire Rune.

I think that was what @jek meant to say. "That's a lot of points to charge your ranged unit into melee combat."

5 minutes ago, Budgernaut said:

I think that was what @jek meant to say. "That's a lot of points to charge your ranged unit into melee combat."

I suppose, to get the charge attack from terrain costs the equivalent of a single Rune Golem (approximately).

12 hours ago, Budgernaut said:

I was about to write the same thing, but since you don't perform the action as normal, why would you carry out the modifier as normal?

The rules don't tell you to cancel the modifier. They don't even tell you not to perform the action, all they tell you not to do is use the template.

10 hours ago, Orcdruid said:

The rules don't tell you to cancel the modifier. They don't even tell you not to perform the action, all they tell you not to do is use the template.

Entering terrain cancels your second dial, turn ends (oathsworn cannot enter terrain, then exit with their bonus 2 march for example), maybe that is the source of confusion.

6 minutes ago, Darthain said:

Entering terrain cancels your second dial, turn ends (oathsworn cannot enter terrain, then exit with their bonus 2 march for example), maybe that is the source of confusion.

It only cancels some options on the second dial. If an enemy was touching the terrain and your second dial was a charge you still get to fight, if your second dial was +1 defence you'd still benefit from it.

48 minutes ago, stet2 said:

It only cancels some options on the second dial. If an enemy was touching the terrain and your second dial was a charge you still get to fight, if your second dial was +1 defence you'd still benefit from it.

Yes, that is the exception (the charge).

15 minutes ago, Darthain said:

Yes, that is the exception (the charge). The defense I'm not sold on:

After the unit resolves all effects of entering the terrain,
its activation immediately ends. If it had a bonus action or
other game effects to perform, these are canceled.

The game effect (+1 def) is canceled.

It's not an effect that they have to perform after entering the terrain. The defend bonus takes effect as soon as the command tool is revealed and lasts for the full turn (Rule 23.1).

I'm not arguing for it, just bringing it up as a point of discussion. After thinking about it, even though you don't perform the action normally, you still perform it, so the charge should modify it, meaning you get a panic token. But I dislike that you get a panic token when the rules prevent you from being able to collide at all. Just cause I don't likr it, though, doesn't mean that's how it works. You just have to be careful with your charges when coming out of terrain (i.e. use something else).

@Budgernaut I agree, it is dumb that you can't charge out of terrain.

Maybe they will come out with a terrain tile that lets you do that in the future.

2 hours ago, Orcdruid said:

@Budgernaut I agree, it is dumb that you can't charge out of terrain.

Maybe they will come out with a terrain tile that lets you do that in the future.

Why?

Why would you be able to mount a coherent charge when you are leaving a muddy bog? Why would you be able to charge when you are filing your men down stairs, or out of a forest, or over a stone wall?

We aren't talking about disorderly charges here, a charge represents the whole formation being prepared enough to move forward and engage as a group.

It makes perfect sense that they would need to regroup first.

Cavalry can already move at speed to engage enemies out of terrain, they just can't do it and also pull off an attack (yet.)

So far the only unit that can are flesh rippers, and that's only because they are demonic apex predators.

I don't think it's silly that you can't charge out of terrain; I think it's silly that you get a panic token for selecting a charge when the only thing preventing you from successfully charging is the rule that you can't charge out of terrain.

As for charging out of terrain, the scene from The Two Towers where King Theoden rides out of Helm's Deep comes to mind. Granted, that was not taxing terrain, but I would certainly consider a castle wall an obstacle for the orcs outside.

3 hours ago, Orcdruid said:

@Budgernaut I agree, it is dumb that you can't charge out of terrain.

In a lot of games there are penalties for moving into and/or out of terrain. This game makes it easy for units to enter terrain, but assesses a penalty when you leave it. I like the system the way it is.

On 28/06/2017 at 0:53 AM, Budgernaut said:

I don't think it's silly that you can't charge out of terrain; I think it's silly that you get a panic token for selecting a charge when the only thing preventing you from successfully charging is the rule that you can't charge out of terrain.

Agreed. It's one of those silly traps for the unwary, or inexperienced ?

On 28/06/2017 at 0:53 AM, Budgernaut said:

As for charging out of terrain, the scene from The Two Towers where King Theoden rides out of Helm's Deep comes to mind. Granted, that was not taxing terrain, but I would certainly consider a castle wall an obstacle for the orcs outside.

Oh dear, dear, dear, dear. You're on a slippery slope there; bringing (fantasy) reality from a (fantasy) work of fiction into a game about (fantasy) combat! ?