8 minutes ago, Smutpedler said:

Step 1: Look at some tourney results and realize Imps are not dead.

Step 2: Play some x-wing.

Step 3: Play some more x-wing.

Step 4: Get beer.

And bacon.

Or better yet, combine the two: Rauchbier

Maybe tell him to stop being a baby?

So the meta is heavily leaning on Scum right now and there's more coming, big deal. The game's still enjoyable.

15 minutes ago, Magnus Grendel said:

And bacon.

Or better yet, combine the two: Rauchbier

Uuh this has me all giddy, I even know someone from Bamberg who could get me some if I were patient enough to not just order it online...

As for your buddy, clanofwolves, sometimes people just burn out on games. I know I was **** close when I ran a scum-swarm wave 6 and was first outtanked then outboosted by fat turrets for 4 consecutive games... He might return when there is some new release that tempts him. You could also try to get him to play the imperial HotAC version, that sounds like something that would fit the two of you. Campaign play is another idea, try the Rebel Transport one using only movie-ships.

2 hours ago, Magnus Grendel said:

And bacon.

Or better yet, combine the two: Rauchbier

Wow. I need some of this in my life. FFG please don't nerf bacon beer.

6 hours ago, Herowannabe said:

A lot of good advice in this thread so I won't repeat most of it.

However, I second the suggestion to get him to try out epic. A Raider equipped with ordnance tubes is complete monster and a blast to fly.

Also, take it from someone who has been around since wave 2- the Meta will change. Back when I started playing the thing to beat was the 7 or 8 TIE swarm. It was called a "shark" because it was a huge threat that had been around from the beginning and was expected to stay as a relevant threat throughout all time. However, when was the last time you saw someone flying 7+ TIEs competitively? The Meta changed. Ordnance and bombs used to be complete crap. Soontir used to be crap, then became the end-all be-all pilot to beat, and then faded away again. At one point you either flew Whisper or Fat Han or you lost. Brobots used to be a huge threat. Then it was Defenders and Palp aces. Then triple jumps, now things like Miranda and Attanni Mindlink and regen and alpha strikes and Fenn Rau and Dengar. Next up it looks like it might be some variation of scurrgs and/or bomb shenanigans. Many of those things have faded away, but many are still viable and there are others I haven't even mentioned yet that can be quite potent.

So right now Scum is having its day in the sun, but it won't last forever. FFG is actually really good at seeing what things are OP and what things are crap and fixing them- it just takes them a long time to do that- roughly 1-2 years. So give it some time, and you'll see imperials get some love again.

TL;DR - the Meta will change, just be patient. If you don't like how it is now, try something else and come back in 6 months, but don't give up on the game completely just because the Meta doesn't suit your tastes right now.

Gotta be said: When the predator that's been around since the beginning of history starts to threaten extinction, you might want to look again at the health of those oceans...

It's rare - that's not the same as ineffective, though.

For that matter, a 4 academy pilot/4 obsidian pilot won a store championship very recently (I was pleasantly surprised to see it in @MajorJuggler 's tournament list).

More importantly, the things which killed them in their recent incarnations are steadily receding - TIE/x7 is still a bugger to hurt, for example, but is now vulnerable to blocking.

18 minutes ago, Reiver said:

Gotta be said: When the predator that's been around since the beginning of history starts to threaten extinction, you might want to look again at the health of those oceans...

Oh no! Mosasaurs are extinct! Mammals are OP! Sharks need a buff!

In the case of x-wing meta, it will change. And when the natural predators of the tie swarm wane, they will re-merge. Part of the problem with the tie swarm is the extra skill needed to control that many ships without creating your own issues. Folks will naturally gravitate towards easier squads if they do well unless they see swarms doing well again.

He wants to play bombs and missiles, but maybe for the time being he needs to be the one building lists to counteract bombs and missiles. Since he flies without error, and know how bombs and missiles work best, then he should be able to make up a crackin' Imperial list that will slaughter the meta coming out.

Then, when FFG comes out with some Imperial love, he will be rewarded (in addition to winning against the meta).

4 hours ago, Magnus Grendel said:

And bacon.

Or better yet, combine the two: Rauchbier

OK, I am enjoying all the ideas and positivity, but this on is well out of the box, well done sir!

Yes, @FTS Gecko , I have talked about the Gunboat with everyone I play with and we all look forward to it, but he lives in some kinda reality thing, whatever, haha. @Joe Boss Red Seven , @Blail Blerg , yes, I totally feel that; and @heychadwick we have played your Punisher Mission three times (twice when you were first tweaking it) and it was a blast; he got into the last game with us and really wrecked it. Interesting list @Cr0aker , I haven't yet flown an Upsilon (bought one first day on-sale at the LGS, but it was gifted to my brother-in-law in a birthday 'need a gift quick' said my wife pinch); he's not an Ace guy and doesn't have a Phamtom.....hum, ideas perhaps? Yes, @Stoneface , maybe there is real wisdom there that could get him focusing on his game-play and not the statistical hole he's in when flying Imperial secondary weapon platforms against the other, better equipped factions. @Darth Meanie , great ideas that we've partially done; love the pre-nerf Phantom idea though, fly her like she was designed to fly; and @wurms , he's looked at the SF, just not bought in to the different, more Rebel-like platform of the ship, it's great to add to the positives as they seem to be THE best ship for the Empire pilots to take these days.

You guys are AWESOME! Especially the unmentioned ones as I cannot thank you all at this moment! I feel like he needed a breather, and yeah, if you're hyper-competative and analytically minded, this is a really rough time to play this warped game. We'll get some casual together that's Jumpmaster free and temp him with some brew......I wonder where you can get bacon beer around here?

5 hours ago, Magnus Grendel said:

Or better yet, combine the two: Rauchbier

That sounds a lot better than it tastes. I've tried it exactly once, and will never do so again. It's more "sausage" than "bacon" anyway.

53 minutes ago, haslo said:

That sounds a lot better than it tastes. I've tried it exactly once, and will never do so again. It's more "sausage" than "bacon" anyway.

Yeah, quite a few beers fall into that description trumps product category; A recent Rogue Chocolate Hazelnut Stout looked appealing from the outside, but weak and no better than a meh Ale on the inside. German beers are a tough nut if you like prefer Stouts from the Isles.

2 hours ago, haslo said:

That sounds a lot better than it tastes. I've tried it exactly once, and will never do so again. It's more "sausage" than "bacon" anyway.

Spoiler of my dreams...

16 hours ago, clanofwolves said:

I have a fairly new local player that needs some encouragement. He's smart, competitive, fair and solid; he helps out others all the time with typical life issues. He's X-military, special ops forward air control, bombing things and being up close was his thing; he's structured and loves Star Wars and gaming. He reeeeealy got into X-Wing over the past year; he got frustrated over and over and now wants to give all his stuff away (got to be hundreds of dollars in ships and cases). He bought us a beer each, and walked away a few days ago, leaving his gear. I've got it, saving it for his return.

He loved playing the government troops and has a good collection, and it's heavy in ordinance and TIE Defenders (he runs rockets on them), Bombers, Punishers and Advanced Prototypes. He studies the game, is surgical and really flies error free. He wanted to bomb and missile his way to victories. He did to a degree, but Sabine, Advanced Slam and the new Scum bomb boost to Jumpmasters (he thinks) coming in the Scurge had its end for his interest in playing.

I told him I'd find him some positives; he stated "there aren't any, the government troops day has ended, the war has been set against them; time to pull out." So, give me some positives that I can share with him, to give the Empire's best --in my opinion-- bombing crew much needed hope in this dark time!

Thanks guys!!

Tell him to never sell or give away an army (I'm talking as a 40k and Warmachine player as well) unless absolutely necessary. (Space or money issues)

You never know when you'll get back into a game and be kicking yourself for giving away/selling your army.

3 hours ago, clanofwolves said:

Yes, @FTS Gecko , I have talked about the Gunboat with everyone I play with and we all look forward to it, but he lives in some kinda reality thing, whatever, haha. @Joe Boss Red Seven , @Blail Blerg , yes, I totally feel that; and @heychadwick we have played your Punisher Mission three times (twice when you were first tweaking it) and it was a blast; he got into the last game with us and really wrecked it. Interesting list @Cr0aker , I haven't yet flown an Upsilon (bought one first day on-sale at the LGS, but it was gifted to my brother-in-law in a birthday 'need a gift quick' said my wife pinch); he's not an Ace guy and doesn't have a Phamtom.....hum, ideas perhaps? Yes, @Stoneface , maybe there is real wisdom there that could get him focusing on his game-play and not the statistical hole he's in when flying Imperial secondary weapon platforms against the other, better equipped factions. @Darth Meanie , great ideas that we've partially done; love the pre-nerf Phantom idea though, fly her like she was designed to fly; and @wurms , he's looked at the SF, just not bought in to the different, more Rebel-like platform of the ship, it's great to add to the positives as they seem to be THE best ship for the Empire pilots to take these days.

You guys are AWESOME! Especially the unmentioned ones as I cannot thank you all at this moment! I feel like he needed a breather, and yeah, if you're hyper-competative and analytically minded, this is a really rough time to play this warped game. We'll get some casual together that's Jumpmaster free and temp him with some brew......I wonder where you can get bacon beer around here?

Forget the Bacon Beer. Beer and bacon sandwiches! A lot of both!

Give it a few months, never know what the next release could bring.

Probably best thing for all parties is to let him leave the game.

Help your friend find buyers for the gear . He should at least try to recover some of the cost and use it for other things.

It doesn`t sound like he really wants to play x wing as much as he thought he did. It sounds like he wants to play : "This specific arbitrary team with this specific playstyle thats not working." and then be bummed out by it.

I went through this phase as well. I really wanted to fly ECHO no matter what. I lost ...a lot....like .......always,and as time went on it actually got harder to make it work. Eventually you realise that a game like this with constant changes ,expansions, rules differences and all that just doesnt work that way. An x wing player has to adapt all the time and shift away from sentimentality and look elsewhere for what works at the time.

this is an assumption of course, but, as an ex military man he may be used to being told how to do things or is comfortable in a repeated routine but this game is not chess.that way works for chess. x wing is fluid. He can try to be flexible like a blade of grass and bend with the winds of the game, or stay rigid like a stick and break under the force of the winds.

9 hours ago, Stoneface said:

Forget the Bacon Beer. Beer and bacon sandwiches! A lot of both!

I'll admit it... I kinda miss @Vorpalsword...

If you quit because you cant win against everything flying anything you want at any give point then you are going to have a bad game in any none co-operative game.

This game is partially about building and adapting, imperials are still good. My local store championship 2 (or 3) weeks ago was won by me running 3x imperial aces, and in 3rd was another imperial aces build. If he really likes imperial and ordnance then i would recommend 4x Baron of the empire (TAP) with Title + Chips + Crack + Concussion Missiles. I took that list to second place two regionals ago and i think it still is very solid, especially if someone shows up with PS lower then you (or higher... its really freaking solid). If he is trying to missile or bomb with bombers... well that is really hard to do the TAP is a far better missile boat then anything else the empire has to offer.

However if he quit because he was beaten by something and refuses to adapt to it then I don't actually think there is much hope for him really enjoying this game unless what he likes to play becomes the dominate meta. "I only like winning, and I should be able to win with whatever list i want" is not really made for enjoying any game really.

He is gone.

I'm kind of in the same boat. I'm a very competitive person, so I LOVE winning and HATE losing. Then to make it worse on myself I don't like flying meta lists so I'm already fighting uphill often in games.

I have a list I'm practicing with (almost 40 games total already) for SC's coming up, and it was initially doing pretty solid, though not quite as good as I hoped. But lately it's done terrible and it's starting to make me question if I should go to the SC's or not.

Okay, I'm going to temper this with the fact I really think the Agressor looks to be just terrible - and even if it isn't it feels like boring design. I also don't really like the pilot abilities but I've been cooking up something with Kestal that could be a lot of fun.

Here is my 27pt Kestal

Guidance Chips, 2x Thread Tracers, Autoblaster Turret, Veteran Instincts.

The idea if for her to bring in 2-3 heavy hitters and give them all a Target Lock. She choose focus, fires a tracer, uses chips and her focus (if necessary) to make sure she hits.

So what can she bring with her, you have 73pts. I'm hoping the Cruise Missile is 3pts for a double crackshot Gamma Vet with chips and munitions + Pure Sabaac, but even if it isn't there are options. QD, Vader, Backdraft, all with missiles.

The idea being a heavy ordinance strike that just deletes some enemies and then leaves you with a strong follow up.

We have seen a lot of Scum Alpha recently, but I firmly believe that Imperial Alpha is better. You get more shots and have more ships. Which means you can run combined arms to deal with more threats.

Yes all the OPNPE stuff is kind of awful, but that doesn't mean the Imperials don't have game.

It does sound like your friend wants to run certain upgrades for theme rather than efficiency. Unfortunately the game is about efficiency and sacrifice at the moment. So you can use ordinance but you must find an efficient way to use it.

8 hours ago, Joe Boss Red Seven said:

I'll admit it... I kinda miss @Vorpalsword...

Me too...

7 hours ago, markcsoul said:

I have a list I'm practicing with (almost 40 games total already) for SC's coming up, and it was initially doing pretty solid, though not quite as good as I hoped. But lately it's done terrible and it's starting to make me question if I should go to the SC's or not.

You absolutely should.

But you also should play All The Lists, not just the one you want to fly. Fully aware that you'll probably lose, of course. Because flying lists yourself will teach you things about the strengths and weaknesses of those lists that you wouldn't get to know otherwise. Only flying against a list won't teach you what the people flying the list have to think while they're flying it, what options they have available and what options they don't have available, and what good and bad choices for them might be. If you can force them to make bad choices by denying the good ones, that's good for you, and you can't do that if you don't know what their bad choices are.

TIE/sf Fighter: · "Quickdraw" (29)
Crack Shot (1)
Fire Control System (2)
Lightweight Frame (2)
Special Ops Training (0)
Primed Thrusters (1)
VT-49 Decimator: · Rear Admiral Chiraneau (46)
Adaptability (Increase) (0)
Seismic Charges (2)
Engine Upgrade (4)
· Kylo Ren (3)
· Emperor Palpatine (8)
· Dauntless (2)
-- TOTAL ------- 100p. --

Help him invest in this.

This is my current list. Running well. And a bomb.

23 hours ago, Velvetelvis said:

Probably best thing for all parties is to let him leave the game.

Help your friend find buyers for the gear . He should at least try to recover some of the cost and use it for other things.

It doesn`t sound like he really wants to play x wing as much as he thought he did. It sounds like he wants to play : "This specific arbitrary team with this specific playstyle thats not working." and then be bummed out by it.

I went through this phase as well. I really wanted to fly ECHO no matter what. I lost ...a lot....like .......always,and as time went on it actually got harder to make it work. Eventually you realise that a game like this with constant changes ,expansions, rules differences and all that just doesnt work that way. An x wing player has to adapt all the time and shift away from sentimentality and look elsewhere for what works at the time.

this is an assumption of course, but, as an ex military man he may be used to being told how to do things or is comfortable in a repeated routine but this game is not chess.that way works for chess. x wing is fluid. He can try to be flexible like a blade of grass and bend with the winds of the game, or stay rigid like a stick and break under the force of the winds.

Yeah, I think he just needs some encouragement, not really much more than that. I get your points, but his are a bit simpler and somewhat fairer from a game design perspective. His thought process was that he should be able to pick a faction that he enjoys (Imperial), pick a type of game format he enjoys (Bombs first, Secondary Weapons second), and have the tools to be just as competitive as any other squad from whatever faction using said tactics. He prefers and looked for non-faction matches all the time. His rub was not that he hated loosing, for he always admonished us that you only "learn from trials" and that you simply change tactics and "don't replicate mistakes." (trying my best to quote him) His rub was the fact he saw the divide between the tools of bombing the game was giving factions growing, not decreasing. He did fly "enemy squads" to understand their strengths, he determined Cad Bane on a Jumpmaster, paired with a Torpedo Jumpmaster and an Ace was just "fundamentally exasperating" and created even greater separation. We would all make jokes and throw salt about FFGs love of Scum and Miranda/Slam/Sabine, and he usually was the one that reigned us in...until the most recent announcement. He thinks it's not the ship (JK5) that's broken, it's now the game designers. Sure he focuses on Bombs, but he has a point there. I've never seen him negative before that. He's just frustrated with the direction of the game, not the games fluidity....it seems to be flowing but one way.

13 hours ago, Icelom said:

If you quit because you cant win against everything flying anything you want at any give point then you are going to have a bad game in any none co-operative game.

This game is partially about building and adapting, imperials are still good. My local store championship 2 (or 3) weeks ago was won by me running 3x imperial aces, and in 3rd was another imperial aces build. If he really likes imperial and ordnance then i would recommend 4x Baron of the empire (TAP) with Title + Chips + Crack + Concussion Missiles. I took that list to second place two regionals ago and i think it still is very solid, especially if someone shows up with PS lower then you (or higher... its really freaking solid). If he is trying to missile or bomb with bombers... well that is really hard to do the TAP is a far better missile boat then anything else the empire has to offer.

However if he quit because he was beaten by something and refuses to adapt to it then I don't actually think there is much hope for him really enjoying this game unless what he likes to play becomes the dominate meta. "I only like winning, and I should be able to win with whatever list i want" is not really made for enjoying any game really.

He is gone.

This really wasn't him; he just wanted to have somewhat the same power level of bombing or missile tools --knowing if the weapons, delivery platforms, pilot abilities, and modifications are completely different-- as any other faction, that's all. And I don't think that's too much to expect in a game.

I agree that it isn't. I don't expect true balance, but the tools given each faction should give opportunity to list build and practice and be on par in a style of play; one faction shouldn't be bomb handicapped in comparison to the other two. I don't know if Cad Bane will be the new "bane" of Imperials in the game (his name is a pun in itself, haha), but my friend's detailed practice runs using him created a real lack of positivity about the game's direction.

I'm trying to find some bright positives from X-Wing experts to assist his perspective, that's all.

To all the positive replies: thanks!!