I have a fairly new local player that needs some encouragement. He's smart, competitive, fair and solid; he helps out others all the time with typical life issues. He's X-military, special ops forward air control, bombing things and being up close was his thing; he's structured and loves Star Wars and gaming. He reeeeealy got into X-Wing over the past year; he got frustrated over and over and now wants to give all his stuff away (got to be hundreds of dollars in ships and cases). He bought us a beer each, and walked away a few days ago, leaving his gear. I've got it, saving it for his return.

He loved playing the government troops and has a good collection, and it's heavy in ordinance and TIE Defenders (he runs rockets on them), Bombers, Punishers and Advanced Prototypes. He studies the game, is surgical and really flies error free. He wanted to bomb and missile his way to victories. He did to a degree, but Sabine, Advanced Slam and the new Scum bomb boost to Jumpmasters (he thinks) coming in the Scurge had its end for his interest in playing.

I told him I'd find him some positives; he stated "there aren't any, the government troops day has ended, the war has been set against them; time to pull out." So, give me some positives that I can share with him, to give the Empire's best --in my opinion-- bombing crew much needed hope in this dark time!

Thanks guys!!

Short run, Imperials may have it rough. Long term things will improve. Always in motion, the future is.

I'm not in the best position to provide positives right now, but maybe it's time for a few games in a different environment? Thematic/epic/alternate/beer&pretzels styled game play? It usually reinvigorates game play for those who love the game itself anyway...

K-Wings are new republic ships and thus they are governmental troops. And so is the E-Wing

5 minutes ago, clanofwolves said:

I have a fairly new local player that needs some encouragement. He's smart, competitive, fair and solid; he helps out others all the time with typical life issues. He's X-military, special ops forward air control, bombing things and being up close was his thing; he's structured and loves Star Wars and gaming. He reeeeealy got into X-Wing over the past year; he got frustrated over and over and now wants to give all his stuff away (got to be hundreds of dollars in ships and cases). He bought us a beer each, and walked away a few days ago, leaving his gear. I've got it, saving it for his return.

He loved playing the government troops and has a good collection, and it's heavy in ordinance and TIE Defenders (he runs rockets on them), Bombers, Punishers and Advanced Prototypes. He studies the game, is surgical and really flies error free. He wanted to bomb and missile his way to victories. He did to a degree, but Sabine, Advanced Slam and the new Scum bomb boost to Jumpmasters (he thinks) coming in the Scurge had its end for his interest in playing.

I told him I'd find him some positives; he stated "there aren't any, the government troops day has ended, the war has been set against them; time to pull out." So, give me some positives that I can share with him, to give the Empire's best --in my opinion-- bombing crew much needed hope in this dark time!

Thanks guys!!

I know from several posts you have made you are a casual champion and love alternative ways to play. Is your buddy opposed to this idea? Competitively the empire is in the toilet swirling like a floater but there are TONS of ways to say screw ffg's rules and make your own. You guys bought these ships you play with them the way you want to brother! The empire is the best faction in the game imo. Show your friend the power of the darkside and remind him ffg doesn't define the empire he does ?

What, no sf?

In all honesty, if the SCURGG and K are the only issues he should have no problem whatsoever savaging them with missile loaded bombers

Sadly, i know the feeling of having no cool bombing tech in empire outside D rain and fire

Only new thing to come out is supreme cutlass squadron jank (minefield mapper, extras, double cluster mines, and unguided rockets also Long Range Scanners cause why not) @ 33 each

Haha, yeah, I get you there @SEApocalypse , but he thinks like @Starslinger72 , he thinks K-Wing pilots are pure and simple terrorist. The bomblet generator had him geeked until he digested the entire Expansion and saw its power giving abilities to the K-Wing, Scrugg and even Jumps. We play casual and he enjoys it as long as every rule is followed, that's the tough part @LordFajubi . And @ficklegreendice , I'll let him know, I'll print this thread out for him, I'll see him this week on another matter; I have hope ?

Introduce him to the Book of Gunboat; it seems like his playstyle will suit the coming of our Missile-Firing Saviour.

"And behold; the sign of the five-pointed star was seen in the sky, as unto a beacon of hope for the Empire. It was the Alpha and the Rho; twelve was it's number, and eighteen it's coming. And upon it's arrival, Imperial voices lifted in much rejoicing."

PLAY STAR WARS ... NOT X- (ACE) WING THE CARD GAME WITH TOY SHIP MARKERS.

BEEN DO'N THIS FOR FIVE'ISH YEARS NOW, AND SO FAR I LOVE THE GAME EVEN MORE THAN I DID THE YEAR BEFORE!

Joe (above) and I inherent don't agree whatsoever on the big blah boom things he says. But sometimes you gotta take a leaf outta the book of the people opposite you, walk in their shoes for a bit and find their diamonds and treasure them as your own.

I absolutely detest the knowledge that I know that Jumps and scum are blatantly and obviously overpowered. But recently, I just playing some fun old school style: Imp vs rebels. or Imps vs Imps.

What keeps my meta head in the game is that I'm pretty certain that Wave11 will actually break the meta and that will require some nerfing, so I'm hoping some scum stuff gets serious nerfs (FeNn RaU).

Yeah. I gave up on the competitive game now. But I play tons of Imperial. Haven't had a scum game in months. All i say is I'm playing casual, bring something casual.

(Actually take it back I did have a sour puss bring Fenn Rau plus some some jank that wasn't really jank enough as his "funsies" lists, but anyways.)

What about Minefield Mapper, though? No love for that? Maybe let him play with the stuff early, but his buddies don't get to use the new Mapper or Generator at all yet? That could give him an edge early.

You can always try the Punisher mission I made up. It's fully of Ordnance Tie Punishers blowing the crap out of pirates. That should cheer him up!

I wholehardedly agree with those recommending casual play. My most fun games are non 100/6 games. My two boys and I play regularly and at least half our games are made up. A new one that even makes a 100/6 game play completely differently is one we call For Of War. Here is a link to our preliminary rules we are working on.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/14kL-BD4jwXwsSBTfrtfb8m9EEdPCSfk9_QLqw_kJVx4

we have a few others I'll write up Epic is also fun and plays differently

Kylo: ASTS; CD; Title: Emperor

Whisper: VI;FCS;AKallus;ACD

WAAMPAAAAA

took two SC's near me

Epic or Team Epic. It is an entirely different kind of flying and tactics. For his squad he can fly a couple Ion Tie/D Defenders out in front as Air Superiority fighters to clear the way for several Ion and Plasma loaded Bombers so they can do what they were built for - taking out capital ships.

Well, the way I see it one can still be competitive and enjoy the game by setting the expectations correct. For example if you know that you're likely to lose to Scum/Jumpmaster/Attani list, set your goal to win against everything else (and against those lists flown by worse pilots as well ) and enjoy the games. As a matter of fact not every list you encounter would be that game-breaking list, in fact they may end up being at minority due to a nature of swiss pairings, so fly Imperial, be creative, fly casual and enjoy the ride! At least that's what I'm doing.

(Stated by someone stubborn enough to fly ordnance equipped TIE Bombers for 2 years without winning anything but with getting a lot of swag with them in the process Regional Top-8, systems open second day, worlds second day (Top-50) )

Op, I really understand where your friend is coming from. The game can be very trying at times. Try a radically different game for a break. A week or so away from the game could be just what's needed. Lets you come back with a better attitude. I was running a 12-15 game losing streak. No matter what I tried, faction I used or changes in my tactics made a difference. Took two weeks off for an attitude adjustment. Made a big difference when I returned.

He may have become predictable in his play style. It might be something very innocuous but since anticipating what your opponent is going to do is a big part of the game, it can give his opponent a distinct advantage.

Another thing to consider is he may have developed a "Tell". He may not be aware of it but his opponents might have. My best friend had one that he was unaware of. Cost him a bunch of games until I finally mentioned to him.

He's not alone in his frustration. He just might need to take a break.

As a positive, have him try Long Range Scanners on his Punishers. With Plasma Torps, Prox Mines and Extra Muni, they are BEASTS!

Have him buy a Gozanti, load it up with TIE bombers and play some epic.

Capital ships are a TIE bomber and punishers natural prey. Blowing up a few rebel transports or Corvettes should put a smile back on his face.

1 hour ago, heychadwick said:

What about Minefield Mapper, though? No love for that? Maybe let him play with the stuff early, but his buddies don't get to use the new Mapper or Generator at all yet? That could give him an edge early.

You can always try the Punisher mission I made up. It's fully of Ordnance Tie Punishers blowing the crap out of pirates. That should cheer him up!

This was my first thought, too. Proxy the card now; don't wait for the boat!

I also find the TIE/SF to be solid, as well as the TAP. I would think Kylo's shuttle would help out his game.

Also; if you guys are only playing 100/6, scale up to 200 points or 300 points. It will feel a LOT more like a military engagement and less like blood in the sand.

If you want to play 100 points, start playing Shuttle Tydirium's Greyskull campaign. The missions are awesome, and the engagements are more like military encounters rather than kill-them-all.

If it is any consolation to your friend, I played Imperials for a long time without much success. I had to give up on TIE/lns, FOs, and Squints, but I have been doing better with newer fighters.

One last idea is to let him have a few games with old Palps and de-nerfed Phantoms. Give him a chance to experience the pre-nerf might of the Empire!!

Show him the beauty of S/F's:

"Backdraft" (27) w/ Veteran Instincts (1) , Fire-Control System (2) , Targeting Synchronizer (3) , Lightweight Frame (2) , Special Ops Training (0)

"Quickdraw" (29) w/ Draw Their Fire (1) , Fire-Control System (2) , Targeting Synchronizer (3) , Lightweight Frame (2) , Special Ops Training (0)

"Deathfire" (17) w/ Extra Munitions (2) , Concussion Missiles (4) , Cluster Mines (4) , Guidance Chips (0)

Total: 99

Ordnance, bombs, aces, multiple arcs

A lot of good advice in this thread so I won't repeat most of it.

However, I second the suggestion to get him to try out epic. A Raider equipped with ordnance tubes is complete monster and a blast to fly.

Also, take it from someone who has been around since wave 2- the Meta will change. Back when I started playing the thing to beat was the 7 or 8 TIE swarm. It was called a "shark" because it was a huge threat that had been around from the beginning and was expected to stay as a relevant threat throughout all time. However, when was the last time you saw someone flying 7+ TIEs competitively? The Meta changed. Ordnance and bombs used to be complete crap. Soontir used to be crap, then became the end-all be-all pilot to beat, and then faded away again. At one point you either flew Whisper or Fat Han or you lost. Brobots used to be a huge threat. Then it was Defenders and Palp aces. Then triple jumps, now things like Miranda and Attanni Mindlink and regen and alpha strikes and Fenn Rau and Dengar. Next up it looks like it might be some variation of scurrgs and/or bomb shenanigans. Many of those things have faded away, but many are still viable and there are others I haven't even mentioned yet that can be quite potent.

So right now Scum is having its day in the sun, but it won't last forever. FFG is actually really good at seeing what things are OP and what things are crap and fixing them- it just takes them a long time to do that- roughly 1-2 years. So give it some time, and you'll see imperials get some love again.

TL;DR - the Meta will change, just be patient. If you don't like how it is now, try something else and come back in 6 months, but don't give up on the game completely just because the Meta doesn't suit your tastes right now.

I'm in the same situation. I've been playing since wave 3 but I'm just walking away. These last three waves have crushed my spirits.

Only FFG can fix it and they don't want to and probably don't have the experience or knowledge of how to.

There is no good advice in this thread, none that will convince him. SFs aren't the answer, they fly in irons. Epic isn't the answer, it's long and clunky.

The only answers are ship and pilot ban lists. FFG needs to change back to what made the empire great in waves 1-3. FFG needs to prune the game and they aren't going to do it.

6 hours ago, clanofwolves said:

time to pull out

In Star Wars terms certainly it can feel like the Empire is at it's just after the Death Star II destruction moment. Maybe you could assure him the Empire will strike back it may take a while but if all the troops give up there will be no Empire. Save the Empire. Save the dream! Or perhaps Keep Calm and Carry On.

In the meantime I'll reflect that missions and epic. Forget 100 points for a while.

Is everyone else strongly attached to Sabine, K-wings and Jumpmasters? Since this is for casual game nights, would it be possible for the others to agree to pull back on those ships/cards?

Well done saving his ships for him.

Uh...he's air force. So...not surprised?

Things to suggest:

1. Play epic. The Imperial Navy is still by far the best equipped, because the Raider is the scariest son of a star destroyer to be seen on an epic field, and the Empire has the most effective epic-scale support units (Captains Jonus & Kagi). If he likes missiles, then if he hasn't seen an Ordnance Tubes raider corvette do its stuff, he needs to. Properly supported, Impetuous is just terrifying in "FIRE EVERYTHING" mode, putting out a homing missile, two assault missiles and 2 4-dice primaries with more rerolls than you can shake a stick at at PS6 into the same fairly tight arc.
2. If he likes bombs, remember that yes, you've got Sabine and Cad Bane, but the Scurrg has just handed the Imperial Navy's premier bomber one of the most useful tools it's ever had. Deathrain + Bomblet Generator + Advanced Sensors + Lightweight Frame = Boosting, Barrel Rolling, Unlimited Bomb-dropping Glory.
3. Whilst the 'Heavy Bomber' is definitely the Jumpmaster, or K-Wing, or Scurrg, the Empire remains king of the light and medium missile carrier - the Gamma Squadron Veteran and Baron of the Empire are two of the best missile platforms point for point; either 4 gamma veterans or 3 and a support buddy are a nasty force to face, with the pilot skill to out-shoot contracted scouts.
4. There is possible hope on the horizon if you believe rumours; there is, amongst the scheduled lego releases for The Last Jedi, the First Order Bomber. It's not the first ordnance carrier with a tech slot (the special forces TIE is quite a nasty missile boat of its own accord) but a tech slot + ordnance squad is a very effective one; the First Order does missile work very well thanks to some good support ships (primarily the awesome Upsilon Shuttle as a command ship, and Epsilon Ace/Targeting Synchroniser as a PS12 'spotter' for missile fire).

Step 1: Look at some tourney results and realize Imps are not dead.

Step 2: Play some x-wing.

Step 3: Play some more x-wing.

Step 4: Get beer.