Just now, moodswing5537 said:

Jeez. See if I take anymore naps. I wake up to everyone writing novellas....lol. let me sort through these and I'll weigh in....

Lmao. Novellas....yup!

Dang it, have we lost @Norell again? Sombody needs to put a bell on that guy....

6 hours ago, Onidsen said:

Interesting. I agree with this plan in principle - the problem is that I'd expect ovi to be roleblocked no matter what alignment I am. In the hypothetical where I was evil, ovi would be blocked from finding one of their own. Since I'm town, they'll block anyways because they don't want to narrow down the space where they could be hiding. And they can always hope for a lynch on me after.

Since I'm town, I'm ok with getting lynched if it gets us closer to finding a scum. But we're waaay too close to LyLo.

Another point I'd like to bring up is this:

Can we trust Ovi? He hasn't brought forward any verifiable results. All we have is a role claim. Even then, I've played setups with scum cops before. That said, I'm all in favor of more scrutiny being brought towards Mad, CNinja, and I.

Questions Ovi's claim.....

4 hours ago, Onidsen said:

ovinomanc3r is a tough case. Cop is hard to fake. And even though I've played in games with an evil cop, the early claim is much more likely for him to be good. So even though I've cast doubt on it, in the end, I think I'm willing to trust it for now. I don't put too much stock in his reasoning on why he got blocked. It's possible, but it's also easily possible that a scum roleblocker could have blocked him randomly. If the mafia had really understood his breadcrumbs, I'd expect him to be dead now. I'm going to keep a grain of salt in the back of my mind, though, because it could be a good way to ensure we never suspect him. As I said, the early claim and lack of counterclaim makes that less likely. But still something to keep in the back of our minds.

And without Ovi explaining himself at all, seems to give Ovi the benefit of the doubt. I'm all about analysis, but this reads as someone trying to "look like they are helping when they really aren't", which is what you have accused CNinja and Vis of most of this game. THIS is one of the things in the back of my mind.....

Just now, moodswing5537 said:

Questions Ovi's claim.....

And without Ovi explaining himself at all, seems to give Ovi the benefit of the doubt. I'm all about analysis, but this reads as someone trying to "look like they are helping when they really aren't", which is what you have accused CNinja and Vis of most of this game. THIS is one of the things in the back of my mind.....

2 hours in between, during which I thought about it and changed my mind. It's a thing t hat happens sometimes, when a reexamination of the evidence warrants it. In this case, it was facilitated by re-reading earlier comments and trying to find connections, mulling over other arguments, and in general talking myself out of my paranoia.

Thanks for pushing on these points, though - more discussion is helpful, and we need it to get to a hammer in 13 hours or so.

5 hours ago, Onidsen said:

WigT - my gut says evil, but brain says good. Could be that my gut is mafia aligned. Happened that way before in other games. Some things he says scream evil trying to sound village. But other things he says scream village newbie who has made a rookie mistake. I'll call him good for the moment.

I'm evil and I'm good? I don't know what to think. Mad was right...I'm just a confused noob!

I need education, but some **** rebel killed the university professor! What am I going to do???

Answer: Go back and read all the posts from the very beginning. Actually, I'm not confused. I like to take my time absorbing something new until I get a feel for it. I listen. You learn a lot from listening. I also like to read, re-read and think. When I'm ready, then I'll say what I want to say or make a move. Yeah, I made a rookie mistake at the beginning. It won't happen again.

I'm seeing things both subtle and gross. I found Ovi's cop reference before he pointed it out a few pages back. Noticed a few other things as well. I'm starting to put together my own "list" of who reads town and why. I'm not going to share it yet...I want to sleep on it and look at it again in the morning when my mind is fresh. I have a short list of suspected rebels too.

@Onidsen

There's nothing evil about me. I'm trying to write some of this humorously, and it might not be coming across that way...that might be why your gut feels the way it does. I'm a straight-up townie...100% vanilla. I'm nothing special on Nowhere Special.

Leave Norell to sleep at night! It starts earler at the other side of the Atlantic you know

Now up to reading...

@Admiral WigT if you have a list I think it's time to share with us. Not much time of the day left.

Otherwise this is really a mess. I'm still concerned about @moodswing5537 . His flavor text, including the fact that he has only the name "Mr. Normal", the lack of background detail, and that his text doesnt include certain expressions that the others have... I just havr a very bad feeling about it.

#vote @moodswing5537

I'm also not sold on Ovi's claim being a cop but probably only because I still don't understand the reference to previous games, but that isn't important right now.

Only a few hours left, if we don't lynch somebody today either we might as well give up the game because we're hopelessly indecisive.

38 minutes ago, Norell said:

@Admiral WigT if you have a list I think it's time to share with us. Not much time of the day left.

Otherwise this is really a mess. I'm still concerned about @moodswing5537 . His flavor text, including the fact that he has only the name "Mr. Normal", the lack of background detail, and that his text doesnt include certain expressions that the others have... I just havr a very bad feeling about it.

#vote @moodswing5537

I'm also not sold on Ovi's claim being a cop but probably only because I still don't understand the reference to previous games, but that isn't important right now.

Only a few hours left, if we don't lynch somebody today either we might as well give up the game because we're hopelessly indecisive.

I don't think there is anything missing from Mood's claim

Ok, I will only come back for the last 2 hours, so I beg you guys to actually talk!

8 hours 27 minutes remain - 5 to hammer

There are too many things easily readable in two ways: mafia play, honest mistake (actually that is the winner excuse this game for almost every odd move but that was my fault too).

But at the end the only real piece of info is that Norell escaped the lynch.

How? Why?

Until we knew what he is we cannot know about those votes or/and no-votes.

I think the only lynching that brings us info no matter if we fail or not is Norell's one.

You want me to claim? Why exactly? I think I already made my standing pretty clear earlier.

Also killing Truthiness was at the time the best move to incriminate me, and that's why lynching me was dropped. By the way it it pretty interesting thst you're turningon me now, when only 8 hours left and when I expressed my doubts about your claim. Are you hiding something? Aren't there any more likely candidates for being mafia?

And finally if I were mafia, why would I remind everyone that mood is fairly suspicious. Unless I would want to defend Onidsen which would instantly mean that he's mafia and should be lynched. That would be a pretty stupid move, wouldn'til it?

All in all, Onidsen or Moodswing, almost doesn't matter at this point but we must lynch someone. My bet is still on Moodswing but if the majority thinks Onidsen more suspicious so be it.

@CaribbeanNinja , @Madaghmire , @Admiral WigT an, thougts? We need at least some of you to make a lynch.

On 27/6/2017 at 8:46 PM, Onidsen said:

Sorry folks, got sucked into a "just one more turn" thing on Stellaris. For almost 2 whole days...

I leave this forum open in a tab on my mobile often, so it looks like I'm on when I'm actually doing other things. Sorry about that also.

As far this game goes, I've been struck by two things. First, Norell's vote is...suggestive. I'm not going to go so far as to call it suspicious, because there's a variety of reasons that could be behind it, but Norell is definitely someone to watch. I'd be more ok with hanging him D1 if he wasn't a consistent early game target (I know that's a meta reason, but we ought to be worrying about creating a fun and welcoming community to encourage these games, and not just winning. Though winning is important too :D)

Truthiness is coming down pretty hard on Norell for the L-2 vote. That's...a little odd too? Another one to watch. They could be teammates trying to distance themselves from each other.

And, just for the record, if I were evil and my partner was digging themselves into a hole, I would have no problem with bussing them. The only reason I wouldn't is if it were something that I legitimately wouldn't find suspicious (had that happen in a game before - I was evil and one of my partners was up for the townkill D1 because he asked the question about whether or not we should hang someone D1. He was a returning player after a long absence, and that was a typical discussion when he had been playing before. But forum culture changed while he was gone, and it got him taken out D1. And because I legitimately thought he shouldn't have been targeted, I defended him rather strongly. It got me killed too, but not defending him would have made it go even faster, because it would have been a marked departure from my regular play.)

As far as voting, I'm really leaning towards Norell, but I don't want to kill him early again (meta issues, as I said). I'll give the thread another read-through after lunch and throw a vote out then.

Were you not doing exactly what you said here?

On 28/6/2017 at 4:21 AM, CaribbeanNinja said:

Nah, I'll take full responsibility for my suspicions.

I still say Norell is the most suspicious. But do I put him at -2? No I think not. Yet anyhow. I will always do what I think will help the establishment. And if that means a last minute lynching I'll always gladly take the heat for it. (See last two games.) I rarely vote just to vote.

And I also say that Truthiness is my second suspect. That is more a gut feeling.

I rarely vote just to vote. Something that is a little weird is that the votes actually seem all over the place Day 1

Why you didn't vote him then?

On 28/6/2017 at 0:41 PM, Norell said:

Fine, lynch me but promise me you'll lynchTruthiness next. Those who already voted won't change their opinion no matter what I say from now on. And the others will vote because somebody has to be lynched. Except the mafia of course. They will vote to get rid of a townie.

And Truthiness was townie. Maybe you were bying time to your mate if you died.

On 28/6/2017 at 3:45 PM, CaribbeanNinja said:

This is super sketchy.

Truth totally backed off, and I am probably Norells biggest critic right now.

No votes again. Maybe cause it meant h-2 but...

On 28/6/2017 at 4:05 PM, ovinomanc3r said:

I am not so sure about Norell as you. And I don't get the bad feelings about CNinja. However, mood... He went after Onidsen when Norell started to move into the fire line. He explained, of course but now when the time is pusing Norell to his sadly fate he chose you? Reason: Truthiness unvote what he started. Clever mafia play? Maybe. Deflection moves? Plausible.

D1 lynching sucks. But I am not going to be around to change so I will vote my last choice now.

Norell: put me h-2.

Truthiness: trapped by a clever "townie" Norell. Claimed with just two votes.

Mood: really pushed hard against Norell's lynching pointing to someone else.

Not too much about others.

Not quite sure about anyone. But I don't think it would be wise to unvote. Either Norell not Truthiness win anything lynching the other when the lynched flipped townie (the other would be a main target) or mafia (but the fact of a medal to the town). Mood, instead, could win something no matter if he moves us to a scum or townie. If townie, he saved a mate (not the wiser move however); if scum, he becomes trustworthy as the mafia hunter.

That's my reason to:

## vote moodswing5537

I had been more sure about my choice but we have not too much time left.

...after that you...

On 28/6/2017 at 4:09 PM, CaribbeanNinja said:

I am not the only one that suspected Norell, if you remember.

Still no vote 40 min before the lynch.

Not pointing I would like just an explanation.

7 minutes ago, Norell said:

You want me to claim? Why exactly? I think I already made my standing pretty clear earlier.

No.

8 minutes ago, Norell said:

Also killing Truthiness was at the time the best move to incriminate me, and that's why lynching me was dropped.

Actually Trhuthiness was townie. If you were too there was no reason to kill him. They didn't need incriminate you more. They just need to kill CNinja to keep the things locked between you and Truthiness. What makes me think:

1) CNinja cannot kill himself.

2) if you were scum if Truthiness saw a new day both would still being targets. Incriminating yourself hard and being quick to point that out could be your only chance of escaping asking for common sense..."It is too obvious". I did it during the jedi academy. I killed CNinja cause I put me in the main line with my post. I couldn't play my "I am being incriminated" card cause CNinja killed me.

And I didn't say we must lynch you cause it obvious you are. I am saying that if we lynch you we will know why some voted trying to drive the lynching over you at the last moments and why some didn't vote you when they could and even suspected about you!

22 minutes ago, ovinomanc3r said:

Still no vote 40 min before the lynch.

Not pointing I would like just an explanation.

Yeah, this in the end was probably a bad play. I should've voted Norell yesterday. I mean, that was my stance. However, it looked like Truth said, that they were just two town going after each other. At the end (right as Onidsen voted for him) he just had three votes, so it didn't matter.

Okay, question: Are there ever any mafia games where the mafia knows the roles, but the town does not?

6 hours ago, Norell said:

@Admiral WigT if you have a list I think it's time to share with us. Not much time of the day left.

Otherwise this is really a mess. I'm still concerned about @moodswing5537 . His flavor text, including the fact that he has only the name "Mr. Normal", the lack of background detail, and that his text doesnt include certain expressions that the others have... I just havr a very bad feeling about it.

#vote @moodswing5537

I'm also not sold on Ovi's claim being a cop but probably only because I still don't understand the reference to previous games, but that isn't important right now.

Only a few hours left, if we don't lynch somebody today either we might as well give up the game because we're hopelessly indecisive.

You vote for a vocal player in the beginning that is a townie (Truthi). You latch on to me, another vocal townie that has claimed all he can claim, at a time that another player seems to be targeted, which REALLY sounds like a defense of a scum mate (who also latched onto me....teamwork?), all the while trying to cast doubt on a towny that most likely has a role that can hinder your schemes. Too many pieces fit that puzzle for me....

##vote Onidsen

Thanks for putting it into perspective for me Norell....

4 hours remain - 5 to hammer

Waking up now. After i get ready for work ill take a longer look

3 minutes ago, moodswing5537 said:

You vote for a vocal player in the beginning that is a townie (Truthi). You latch on to me, another vocal townie that has claimed all he can claim, at a time that another player seems to be targeted, which REALLY sounds like a defense of a scum mate (who also latched onto me....teamwork?), all the while trying to cast doubt on a towny that most likely has a role that can hinder your schemes. Too many pieces fit that puzzle for me....

##vote Onidsen

Thanks for putting it into perspective for me Norell....

Onidsen and Norell in cahoots? Interesting...

That would make their little exchange right after day broke sensible. Onidsen goes from a critic to now totally changing his tune on Norell. Hmm...

The only thing though @moodswing5537 , why aren't you voting @Norell then? Are you so certain?

A vote for Oni gets one of the two scum, and I didn't want to lose them both. Since we are two in on one of them, I figured that was a safer vote.

I'm alive.

Catching up since my last post. Be back shortly.

6 hours ago, Norell said:

@Admiral WigT if you have a list I think it's time to share with us. Not much time of the day left.

Otherwise this is really a mess. I'm still concerned about @moodswing5537 . His flavor text, including the fact that he has only the name "Mr. Normal", the lack of background detail, and that his text doesnt include certain expressions that the others have... I just havr a very bad feeling about it.

#vote @moodswing5537

I'm also not sold on Ovi's claim being a cop but probably only because I still don't understand the reference to previous games, but that isn't important right now.

Only a few hours left, if we don't lynch somebody today either we might as well give up the game because we're hopelessly indecisive.

I'm still pondering my list so I'm not ready to make it public. But, I will tell you that I'm inclined to put you in the most likely a townie column.

I do agree that we need a vote today, so I will definitely be voting for someone.

1 hour 44 minutes remain - 5 to hammer