Just now, kris40k said:

Are you kidding me?

Ok, it has become obvious that you are not open to the possibility of being incorrect on this subject.

Have fun.

Well, neither are you

12 minutes ago, Sarcon said:

Well, neither are you

No, I was cool until you stretched to the point that saying discarding a token from a ship is not removing it from a ship.

I just can't continue on from there without putting my head through my desk.

27 minutes ago, Sarcon said:

As I said, the end result may sometimes be the same, but the interaction of removing is not the same as discarding.

So, according to rules:

1) Perform Rage action

2) Assign Focus token and a Stress to your ship. Trigger baffle yes/no? If no, put token down. Assign second Stress to your ship. Trigger baffle yes/no? If yes, take a damage and discard the token.

You never physically put the token down so how did you remove it? As far as I can see only discards happened, and we both just pointed out that there is a big difference between discarding and removing. So as per rules as written, I still stand by my point that Inspiring Recruit does not trigger on a discarded stress token.

EDIT: Lets submit it to the rules questions just to be sure. If it is this unclear that we have this discussion about this, it needs an FAQ.

One person disagreeing does not an FAQ make.

Inspiring Recruit does not care how you get rid of the stress, simply that it is removed.

Again, you literally cannot discard something you don't have. That would need to be prevented entirely, which Baffle does not do. The card says it triggers when you receive a stress. It's on the card. You have to have the stress before Baffles does anything about it.

Then Baffles discards it. When you discard something, you physically remove it. Now that you've removed something, Recruits triggers.

You're attempting to rules-lawyer the English language -- when an item is discarded it is removed from the game. It is only your own attempt to make something [not] work that causes you to ignore the plain fact that, when something is discarded, it is removed from play.

You may be able to make that argument for an upgrade card, because they are flipped over -- they're still removed from play, but this discussion isn't relevant to the tokens we're looking at, so I don't care to have it.

Rage stress 1 -> Rage stress 2 -> Baffle -> Recruit. It not only works, but your example of cheating was actually you, accidentally, cheating. Whether or not a TO mistakenly colluded; as has already been pointed out, not every TO is an X-Wing expert.

It's definitely an interesting discussion, that's for sure! I'll send in an email to FFG rules. I would be happy to be proven wrong, but I simply see it as two different things. If I'm proven wrong I'll let you guys know

1 minute ago, Sarcon said:

It's definitely an interesting discussion, that's for sure! I'll send in an email to FFG rules. I would be happy to be proven wrong, but I simply see it as two different things. If I'm proven wrong I'll let you guys know

I appreciate your candor, even if I find answers like this frustrating. It's no surprise that FFG takes so long to reply to actual rules issues/questions, because of the over-inundation they receive about trivial interactions.

That's not a direct dig at you. You are far from the only person to send an query to something that has (in all honesty) been answered already.

1 minute ago, ArbitraryNerd said:

I appreciate your candor, even if I find answers like this frustrating. It's no surprise that FFG takes so long to reply to actual rules issues/questions, because of the over-inundation they receive about trivial interactions.

That's not a direct dig at you. You are far from the only person to send an query to something that has (in all honesty) been answered already.

What's clear to the one person may be unclear to the other. That's what makes us all human I guess. No hard feelings from my side, I hope I wasn't being too much on your nerves. After all it's only a game with plastic spaceships anyway

1 minute ago, Sarcon said:

What's clear to the one person may be unclear to the other. That's what makes us all human I guess. No hard feelings from my side, I hope I wasn't being too much on your nerves. After all it's only a game with plastic spaceships anyway

The issue here is that there isn't a single point of your version that isn't answered somewhere else via actual in-game interactions/rules.

And one of my favorite pastimes is arguing with people over the internet, so no concerns about nerves on this front.

Just wanted to apologize if I came across as snippy @Sarcon. No offense meant.

19 minutes ago, kris40k said:

Just wanted to apologize if I came across as snippy @Sarcon. No offense meant.

No worries, the more intense the discussion, the more intense the replies from both sides.

9 hours ago, Sarcon said:

But you're saying that the meaning of "discard" is the same as the meaning of "remove". In some cases the end result may be the same, but I still say, even if you receive one stress first, then baffle, thus discard the second, the end result is the second stress never being assigned to your ship. How can you remove something that is not assigned? How does this trigger inspiring recruit? Discard is not the same as remove!

Again, I ask, does Sabine never work? Her wording says when a bomb token is removed, all bomb reference cards say the token is discarded? Just curious as to your response to this based on your argument that discard and remove are not the same.

14 hours ago, Sarcon said:

But you're saying that the meaning of "discard" is the same as the meaning of "remove". In some cases the end result may be the same, but I still say, even if you receive one stress first, then baffle, thus discard the second, the end result is the second stress never being assigned to your ship. How can you remove something that is not assigned? How does this trigger inspiring recruit? Discard is not the same as remove!

That's trying to determine what discard means - there are two questions...
1 - does the stress hit your ship

2 - is something that is discarded also removed?

1. note that we have a precedent for replacement effects where stress never actually hits your ships - Look at Captain Yorr - "You may receive that token instead" , Instead is the key word, which caused a bunch of FAQing back in the wave 2-3 days, for example, if you have Soontir and he would receive a stress, and captain Yorr takes it instead - Soontir never receives the stress and doesn't get a focus.

Baffle says When you receive ... There is no "Instead" and the ability only triggers when you actually receive a stress token, SO - we can answer definitively that YES - Stress does hit your ship. (Note that it doesn't say "when you would receive")

2 - This one is trickier - we don't have a real ruling here, and there's nothing wrong with sending an rules clarification request to FFG. We see discard usually in relation to cards - not tokens while almost everything involving tokens is worded remove. . This feels like a wording error. But in both cases - what do we do? Discard / remove - we take something (token / card) and we take it away, and put it somewhere else (discard pile / token supply) - functionally they are the same - and that's why our TO will rule they are the same. Can you find another instance of discard vs remove where the wording difference is significant?

1 hour ago, Ravncat said:

That's trying to determine what discard means - there are two questions...
1 - does the stress hit your ship

2 - is something that is discarded also removed?

1. note that we have a precedent for replacement effects where stress never actually hits your ships - Look at Captain Yorr - "You may receive that token instead" , Instead is the key word, which caused a bunch of FAQing back in the wave 2-3 days, for example, if you have Soontir and he would receive a stress, and captain Yorr takes it instead - Soontir never receives the stress and doesn't get a focus.

Baffle says When you receive ... There is no "Instead" and the ability only triggers when you actually receive a stress token, SO - we can answer definitively that YES - Stress does hit your ship. (Note that it doesn't say "when you would receive")

2 - This one is trickier - we don't have a real ruling here, and there's nothing wrong with sending an rules clarification request to FFG. We see discard usually in relation to cards - not tokens while almost everything involving tokens is worded remove. . This feels like a wording error. But in both cases - what do we do? Discard / remove - we take something (token / card) and we take it away, and put it somewhere else (discard pile / token supply) - functionally they are the same - and that's why our TO will rule they are the same. Can you find another instance of discard vs remove where the wording difference is significant?

There doesn't need to be any additional consideration for the wording here. If your first point is correct, which it is, then what Baffle does is remove the stress.

It can remove the stress however it wants. Discard, fling across the table at your opponent, cease to exist as a fixed point in time and space... As long as it's removed, Recruits triggers.

"I discarded it."

"How did you discard it."

"I... Uh. Took it off the board."

"... You removed it from the board?"

"No, I discarded it..."

"Right."

Removed isn't a game-defined element because it's simply the meaning of the word itself. There are PLENTY of words on these cards that don't have rules entries. And some odd ones that do, when they aren't used in a traditional/obvious sense (your, immediately).

I'd say that if you ran three punishers, you'd be fine taking whatever upgrades you please and nobody's going to complain...