First, Hi everyone. I'm looking forward to the new FAQ coming into play, a lot of good choices by the FFG design staff and it will surely shake up the meta in a positive way.

Second, FW Xenos just came out for 8th Ed. 40K, and it's pretty much accepted by now that you can take FW whenever you want when designing army lists. I picked it up today and noticed this gem.

Just remember guys, whenever you think balance is off for whatever reason in FFG, there's always GW.

24 minutes ago, HERO said:

First, Hi everyone. I'm looking forward to the new FAQ coming into play, a lot of good choices by the FFG design staff and it will surely shake up the meta in a positive way.

Second, FW Xenos just came out for 8th Ed. 40K, and it's pretty much accepted by now that you can take FW whenever you want when designing army lists. I picked it up today and noticed this gem.

Just remember guys, whenever you think balance is off for whatever reason in FFG, there's always GW.

Well, the Eldar ARE a superior race

Imagine if they made flotillas...

sssssquadrons of eldar?

Yeah, playing WFB for about 15 years I know sth about balance.

I mean lack of it.

Armada has pretty good balance and I also like the way it was FAQed.

Can you translate that gem into Armada so I can have context?

Sorry, I am not familiar with the Warhammer 40K line enough to know what's considered broken. It's always felt like that was much more focused on being a miniatures line with rules if you felt like playing with the minis rather than a game system that happens to include miniatures.

23 minutes ago, Darthain said:

Can you translate that gem into Armada so I can have context?

I understood about a third of it, but it looks like the balance equivalent of Armada releasing a version 2.0 where Demolisher is an ISD title

Ima try better:

Flying is the movement equivalent of Jaina's Light. Ignoring most obstacles and excellent LOS. The firepower and durability is something like an ISD. The high speed improving saves is like Admiral Montiferrat. Now, take that 125 or so points and pay just 80 for it

And none of that is unique either

I have no idea wtf anyone is talking about in this thread. I don't even know what Hero's point is. Is balance bad in that game that is not the one I visit this forum to talk about? Is it good?

24 minutes ago, Madaghmire said:

I have no idea wtf anyone is talking about in this thread. I don't even know what Hero's point is. Is balance bad in that game that is not the one I visit this forum to talk about? Is it good?

His point is:

"If you think Balance is Bad in Armada, you are wrong, because the Balance is ALWAYS REALLY REALLY BAD in 40K, EVEN WHEN THEY TRY TO BALANCE IT."

Or something along those lines.

I only used to work for Games Workshop.

- To further, part and parcel of the GW line, before the release of the current edition, is basically they make awesome models, and the game is kind of Secondary to it. Even then, its not a competition level game. Its a game to be enjoyed with friends, with Frameworks of Storyline and Storytelling about it, where wildly incompatible things collide head to head, and impossible last stands can be played out to grinding dust.

The balance wasn't there because it was never intended to be there.

From what I am told they are attempting to bring it back - but Forge world themselves have always pushed the storyline and story-awesome things more than even Games Workshop did.

So I don't necessarily see this as out of the ordinary, and from my perspective, its not neccessarily a bad thing on their end.

If its being promoted, overall, as a Completely Balanced and Awesome game, and things are blindingly not, that's a different matter.

I'm glad the guy who doesn't play any more can tell us that other games are worse. Like, sure, 40K is bad. How does that affect my Armada game?

1 hour ago, geek19 said:

I'm glad the guy who doesn't play any more can tell us that other games are worse. Like, sure, 40K is bad. How does that affect my Armada game?

That reminds me of how some people discuss mental illnesses.

"Sure you have depression, but at least you don't have cancer."

Ummm ok?

I don't see the point of this thread. Am I supposed to feel better a game I have never played before is more unbalanced?

1 hour ago, Drasnighta said:

- To further, part and parcel of the GW line, before the release of the current edition, is basically they make awesome models, and the game is kind of Secondary to it. Even then, its not a competition level game. Its a game to be enjoyed with friends, with Frameworks of Storyline and Storytelling about it, where wildly incompatible things collide head to head, and impossible last stands can be played out to grinding dust.

The balance wasn't there because it was never intended to be there.

That is true and I always was amazed how some people insisted to play tournaments. But even for casual, story based games you need at least some balance, because if some factions are significantly stronger than others, there is no fun in game. Nobody likes the feeling that they lost even before battle began.

10 minutes ago, Undeadguy said:

I don't see the point of this thread. Am I supposed to feel better a game I have never played before is more unbalanced?

You realise that you don't have obligation to read and comment on every single thread on this forum? So let us, folks who played GW games when there was literally nothing else out there, reminisce old times and be thankful that some companies does better work at balancing their games.

6 minutes ago, noggin said:

That is true and I always was amazed how some people insisted to play tournaments. But even for casual, story based games you need at least some balance, because if some factions are significantly stronger than others, there is no fun in game. Nobody likes the feeling that they lost even before battle began.

Y'see, that's a part and parcel of why I played the Imperial Guard.

Here is a Line of Men. Fix Bayonets. Our Foe Today? Genetically Engineered Supermen wearing Tanks as Body Armour who further augment their power by Infusing Demons into their, well, EVERYTHING.

If We Die, We Die. What did we Expect?

Oh, but if we win....

We are the True Heroes.

Part and parcel of selling a true "for the story" game is not every game Can and SHOULD be won.

Sometimes your "Win" should be less than Winning... The Enemy outnumers, out-points, and out-editions me 2:1... You know what. FOUR TURNS. If I hold them off for FOUR TURNS, I've done my Job for the Greater Story, and call it a win anyway, even if my last Guardsman is stomped into the Dirt and ground under Tank Treads at the very Top of Turn 5...

The Grimdark universe is filled with such Heroic last stands... To ignore them and assume every game must be won to be won, isn't actually treating the Story with the respect it deserves.

In My Opinion, anyway.

Perhaps my Opinion has been, somewhat, jaded by the fact that, when I worked for GW... I really enjoyed taking the time out of my favoured sub-job (painting demonstrations) to run the Sunday Mega-Battle.. We'd get a range of people, Vets to Kids, to come in and Roll Dice... Win, Lose, Doesn't matter... The whole point of those Mega-battles were to put a BUNCH of stuff on the table, and roll a BUNCH of dice, and tell a STORY while we were doing it...

6 minutes ago, noggin said:

You realise that you don't have obligation to read and comment on every single thread on this forum? So let us, folks who played GW games when there was literally nothing else out there, reminisce old times and be thankful that some companies does better work at balancing their games.

I don't read every comment of thread on the forum. Go ahead and talk about your good ole times but don't imply people can't be worried about the current state of the game because a totally unrelated game is in a worse state.

26 minutes ago, Drasnighta said:

Y'see, that's a part and parcel of why I played the Imperial Guard.

Here is a Line of Men. Fix Bayonets. Our Foe Today? Genetically Engineered Supermen wearing Tanks as Body Armour who further augment their power by Infusing Demons into their, well, EVERYTHING.

If We Die, We Die. What did we Expect?

Oh, but if we win....

We are the True Heroes.

Part and parcel of selling a true "for the story" game is not every game Can and SHOULD be won.

Sometimes your "Win" should be less than Winning... The Enemy outnumers, out-points, and out-editions me 2:1... You know what. FOUR TURNS. If I hold them off for FOUR TURNS, I've done my Job for the Greater Story, and call it a win anyway, even if my last Guardsman is stomped into the Dirt and ground under Tank Treads at the very Top of Turn 5...

The Grimdark universe is filled with such Heroic last stands... To ignore them and assume every game must be won to be won, isn't actually treating the Story with the respect it deserves.

In My Opinion, anyway.

Perhaps my Opinion has been, somewhat, jaded by the fact that, when I worked for GW... I really enjoyed taking the time out of my favoured sub-job (painting demonstrations) to run the Sunday Mega-Battle.. We'd get a range of people, Vets to Kids, to come in and Roll Dice... Win, Lose, Doesn't matter... The whole point of those Mega-battles were to put a BUNCH of stuff on the table, and roll a BUNCH of dice, and tell a STORY while we were doing it...

I played Dwarfs. No one does better last stands! And I have to admit I enjoyed most huge-mega-story driven battles, but not many people wanted to play that way where I lived.

19 minutes ago, Undeadguy said:

I don't read every comment of thread on the forum. Go ahead and talk about your good ole times but don't imply people can't be worried about the current state of the game because a totally unrelated game is in a worse state.

I didn't say you can't complain. I said I like new FAQ and I like how the game is balanced. To be honest without FAQ was all right for me as well (but I don't play Vassal and World/Euro level, if that matters).

@Drasnighta You're giving me flash backs of the shenanigans of fielding Sly Marbo. Catachans for the win.

FOR THE IMPERIUM OF MAAAAAAAAAAN!!!!!

@Drasnighta, you are making me want to dust off my Epic Space Marine stands and force one of my sons to take command of a Chaos Legion! Ironically, I just picked up a blister of Warlord Titan head variants at Origins game fair. It may be time to mod up some of my old Titans!

To be fair, I enjoy that sort of storytelling in all of the games I play.

I dont' advertise the fact anymore, but basically, even with my current forces in Armada - my Custom Repaints mean that I have my own ships, with their own names... If they use a Title (such as Salvation), then I just 'write in my own name' with that effect, for the most part...

I'm even making Alt-Arts of some of my stuff as a test print run - With Text that's basicalyl identical (and updated where required)...

Its just what I do.

In fairness, Armada's balance is pretty **** good. If you want to point to games with balance issues, there's an entire world of them. You don't even have to leave FFG's stable to meet them. Hell, you don't even have to go outside FFG's SW franchise. X-wing has become a hot mess of fixes, undercosting, overcosting, and more fixes. Imperial Assault rarely has more than two competitive lists on rotation. GW has had a historically rough time balancing 40k, but in their (limited) defence, it's the 8th edition of a game that has an astronomical number of possible combinations of units in any given army, not to mention the sheer number of armies and their sub-factions that augment or even rewrite those rules. Yes, it's a mess at times, but they have more of an excuse than most. If you want a capital ship combat game with balance issues to make yourself feel good about Armada with, look no further than Attack Wing.

5 hours ago, noggin said:

You realise that you don't have obligation to read and comment on every single thread on this forum? So let us, folks who played GW games when there was literally nothing else out there, reminisce old times and be thankful that some companies does better work at balancing their games.

There was literally always an alternative to GW games. I say this as someone who was playing from 2nd edition, who still has his "White Metal" space marines and wargear cards. There were always better games. There still are better games.

39 minutes ago, cynanbloodbane said:

@Drasnighta, you are making me want to dust off my Epic Space Marine stands and force one of my sons to take command of a Chaos Legion! Ironically, I just picked up a blister of Warlord Titan head variants at Origins game fair. It may be time to mod up some of my old Titans!

I still have my old Epic Eldar war host in the attic of my parents place. One day I'll go back and rescue it, along with my Battlefleet Gothic stuff.

My battlefleet gothic fleets were sacrificed to pay for my trip to Origins 2003. The Epic stuff is safely tucked away in a series of tackle boxes in my basement it has been about 3 years since I dusted them off for a game. One of these days I will get enough glass case space to display them properly.

Most of my capital ships still survive. There's a scattering of corvettes and missile boats in there too, but the rest has long since left us. There might even be an old Blackstone Fortress.

Most of that Epic Eldar army remains unpainted. Even the titans.

Ahhh the balance of GW. I am with @Drasnighta in that the story and fluff is big for me. I played an underpowered faction before Fantasy got scrapped. My goal was to win 2 games of 5 in a tourney and I would count it as a good tourney. Three was doing very well and four was beast like.

I play the same in Armada. I don't take "meta" lists. I play what I like and what seems fun or thematic way more than making a list to min/max, etc. This isn't to say i don't pick upgrades or ships to win, it is just that theme is a part of the ships and upgrades I pick.

OMG it's...a reasonably costed super heavy. Why do I care about this tank? It has about as many Wounds as a Shadowsword, hits about as hard (actually nowhere near it if the Shadowsword goes crazy on sponson weapons) and costs 200pts more. I understand GW are easy targets, but I've been playtesting 8th edition alot to get a feel for identifying quality and not quality units (mostly because Tau got nerfed to hell and I need to know what's not crap) and looking at this things stats, it's...average. I don't know why the author is so hyped about it but whatever (also, the author seems to think it can advance and still shoot the main gun, but I haven't seen any reason why it would be able to do that).

To add to the frame of reference, the KV-139 is 1140 points, so about 400 points more and on pretty average dice kills the scorpion in a shooting phase. That being said the KV-139 is literally over half of a 2000pt army (what most people are drifting to right now), so I kind of expect it to redecorate the battlefield with anything dumb enough to challenge it. Even as good as the 139 is, the big mistake with that model was giving it the Battlesuit keyword because that allows it to shunt wounds onto 8pt drones which means it can easily be one of the least killable models in the game if you really don't want it to die (and it can also benefit from rousing speeches from Ethereals telling it's BS 2+ guns to re-roll 1's).

GW has actually done a pretty decent job with 8th and the game is a lot better, so I'm inclined to give them the smallest bit of slack to hang themselves with this time around.