Hello,
Looking at the books, I found this equipment: NeuromachineInterface cybernetic (Lords of Nal Hutta, pg 107) and this talent: Coordination Dodge (No Disintegrations, pg 34) ; And I considered the possibility of working together in Starship and Vehicle combat.
What do you think ?
Possible ?
Abusive?
Does not make sense ?
Edited by Erik SeraphBased upon the reading of the interface, I don'tr see why not.
It's probably not intended, the full talent description may give a better answer to your question
My opinion, no. You aren't allowed to use Pilot skill to do that. The cybernetic allows you to swap Coordination for Pilot when making Piloting checks, but it doesn't bequeath to you the magical ability to do something with Coordination you can't do with Pilot.
Since you didn't ask a question I can only infer at what you're getting at, and the RAW answer is no. Or rather, the cybernetic only allows you to use Coordination in place of Piloting on the subject vehicle and irrelevant to being able to use Coordination Dodge in starship combat. While the Coordination Dodge talent long text doesn't say anything to exclude starship combat, the target of starship attacks are usually the ship the PC is on and not the PC itself.
Im with a big no on this one , it doesnt change the way coordination dodge works and it doesnt work with starship combat.
House rule it if you want of course but I would consider that broken.
19 hours ago, 2P51 said:My opinion, no. You aren't allowed to use Pilot skill to do that. The cybernetic allows you to swap Coordination for Pilot when making Piloting checks, but it doesn't bequeath to you the magical ability to do something with Coordination you can't do with Pilot.
I disagree with the interpretation.
Because that summed it all to a just simple exchange of skills.
And by that logic, it could be any other skill in place of Coordination; Charm for example!
Ignoring all the description of NEUROMACHINE INTERFACE, which says:
"NEUROMACHINE INTERFACE
(Lords of Nal Hutta, pg 107)
A vehicle control system designer to be integrates directy into the nervous system , this ingenious (if notoriously dificult to use) device allows the user to control a vehicle with a thought , moving it as if was part of his own body .
The cybernetic requires use of a linked control device, which must be installd in the craft in question.
When piloting a vehicle with the linked control device, a character with a neuromahine interface may use his Coordination skill in place of the Pilot (Planetary) or Pilot (Space) skill.
Models Include: Neuro-Saav Technologies C-39 Link."
By this description, you will feel the entire starship and vehicle as part of your body; Allowing you to use motors as if they were your limbs, control circuits like nerves, etc ...
You feel the whole starship as a part of you.
You are no longer just sitting in the driver's chair pressing buttons and directing the controls; Now you are feeling the structural tension of the ship, gravity center, Kinetic forces, etc ... throughout the structure, and you know how to use this to your advantage; in the same way that you use your sense of balance and flexibility of your body.
I think it's glaringly obvious to anyone who isn't an irredeemable munchkin that the Coordination Dodge talent is meant to be used in character-scale encounters. At no point in the rules do they specify that characters can't fly when they flap their arms really hard, but pretty much everyone understands that they can't.
You can think what you like but Talent says when
9 minutes ago, Erik Seraph said:I disagree with the interpretation.
Because that summed it all to a just simple exchange of skills.
And by that logic, it could be any other skill in place of Coordination; Charm for example!
Ignoring all the description of NEUROMACHINE INTERFACE, which says:
"NEUROMACHINE INTERFACE
(Lords of Nal Hutta, pg 107)A vehicle control system designer to be integrates directy into the nervous system , this ingenious (if notoriously dificult to use) device allows the user to control a vehicle with a thought , moving it as if was part of his own body .
The cybernetic requires use of a linked control device, which must be installd in the craft in question.
When piloting a vehicle with the linked control device, a character with a neuromahine interface may use his Coordination skill in place of the Pilot (Planetary) or Pilot (Space) skill.
Models Include: Neuro-Saav Technologies C-39 Link."
By this description, you will feel the entire starship and vehicle as part of your body; Allowing you to use motors as if they were your limbs, control circuits like nerves, etc ...
You feel the whole starship as a part of you.
You are no longer just sitting in the driver's chair pressing buttons and directing the controls; Now you are feeling the structural tension of the ship, gravity center, Kinetic forces, etc ... throughout the structure, and you know how to use this to your advantage; in the same way that you use your sense of balance and flexibility of your body.
The Coordination Talent says when the PC is targeted. So are you targeted or is it the spaceship you're in Targeted?
Nice try, but I still say no dice. You're using Coordination in place of Pilot, which means whatever you are doing has to be something you originally would use Pilot skill for to begin with and instead you can use Coordination.
20 hours ago, Hinklemar said:Since you didn't ask a question I can only infer at what you're getting at, and the RAW answer is no. Or rather, the cybernetic only allows you to use Coordination in place of Piloting on the subject vehicle and irrelevant to being able to use Coordination Dodge in starship combat. While the Coordination Dodge talent long text doesn't say anything to exclude starship combat, the target of starship attacks are usually the ship the PC is on and not the PC itself.
Neuromahine interface, makes you feel the ship as part of you, and you control it via thoughts.
So when someone marks the ship as the target of a combative attack, it is implicitly marking a part of you as a target.
Basically, what you're saying is that if someone just aim, target a specifically and shot your leg, you could not use Coordination Dodge.
8 minutes ago, 2P51 said:You can think what you like but Talent says when
The Coordination Talent says when the PC is targeted. So are you targeted or is it the spaceship you're in Targeted?
Nice try, but I still say no dice. You're using Coordination in place of Pilot, which means whatever you are doing has to be something you originally would use Pilot skill for to begin with and instead you can use Coordination.
Just to continue the conversation and for possible clarifications:
COORDINATION DODGE
No Disintegrations, pg 34
Activation:
Active (incidental, Out of Turn)
Ranked:
No
Trees:
Martial Artist
When targeted by a combat check
, the character may spend one Destiny Point to add [FAILURE] equal to her ranks in Coordination to the check.
Look dude why don't you just go talk to your GM and stop wasting your time here. My answer is no. Krieger 22s answer is no. Syrath's answer is no. Hinklemar's answer is no. Your GM is going to have final say.
I personally am not wasting my time debating a power gamer. Tah.
Edited by 2P5114 minutes ago, Krieger22 said:I think it's glaringly obvious to anyone who isn't an irredeemable munchkin that the Coordination Dodge talent is meant to be used in character-scale encounters. At no point in the rules do they specify that characters can't fly when they flap their arms really hard, but pretty much everyone understands that they can't.
By this logical, Coordination Skill, should always be used and only on a character-scale encounters.
Just like other things.
But equipments can change that.
Charm could be used via HoloNet?
I'll only add that even if you can control something with your mind it still isn't part of you. Also, several other pieces of gear have fluff in their descriptions which have no game effect and I think this cybernetic is just another example.
4 minutes ago, 2P51 said:Look dude why don't you just go talk to your GM and stop wasting your time here. My answer is no. Krieger 22s answer is no. Syrath's answer is no. Hinklemar's answer is no. Your GM is going to have final say.
I personally am not wasting my time debating a power gamer. Tah.
I'm not forcing you to debate.
It's your choice.
I only presented more points of interpretation than you saw; And the forum has many more members, who may have opinions different from yours.
Or they may all agree with you.
I just set out other lines of reasoning to get more opinions.
But from what I've noticed you've already labeled me.
27 minutes ago, Hinklemar said:I'll only add that even if you can control something with your mind it still isn't part of you. Also, several other pieces of gear have fluff in their descriptions which have no game effect and I think this cybernetic is just another example.
Yes,
It is possible, to sum up only to this: Fluff
But I wanted to explore the possibilities of the idea.
Possible?
Maybe
(Tending towards the not)
Abusive?
I have no idea yet, because I have not used in game and I do not know how big the cost of a Destination Point, which can not be used to give upgrades, or activate other talents and that depends on the size of the pool and the state (Dark or ligth PIPs available) in a space combat.
(
How strong this is compared to: Jury Rigged in autofire ?
)
Does not it make sense?
For me: yes
(Type a neurological control of a Mecha that replicates the cerebral patterns of movement, but applied and adapted to ships)
For you: No
Would you use that?
I do not know yet.
39 minutes ago, Erik Seraph said:Neuromahine interface, makes you feel the ship as part of you, and you control it via thoughts.
So when someone marks the ship as the target of a combative attack, it is implicitly marking a part of you as a target.
Basically, what you're saying is that if someone just aim, target a specifically and shot your leg, you could not use Coordination Dodge.
Great, now you are dead after even a glancing hit, because those planetary scale cannons will destroy your wt
But hey, at least you can now use dodge, sidestep, etc in space combat as well, simply by using fluff text to override rules
5 minutes ago, SEApocalypse said:Great, now you are dead after even a glancing hit, because those planetary scale cannons will destroy your wt
But hey, at least you can now use dodge, sidestep, etc in space combat as well, simply by using fluff text to override rules
After passing the armor, anything is possible !!
Type: Die in a hot and bright explosion.
4 minutes ago, Erik Seraph said:After passing the armor, anything is possible !!
Type: Die in a hot and bright explosion.
The shot is targeting you, I doubt that the shot has much trouble to pass a few points of soak.
Oh you mean the armor of the ship? Sorry, but we have to rule this now as cover at best.
Just now, SEApocalypse said:The shot is targeting you, I doubt that the shot has much trouble to pass a few points of soak.
Oh you mean the armor of the ship? Sorry, but we have to rule this now as cover at best.
Yeah!!
Yes!!
Ship's armor; I say, my new body.
I'm just a brain inside a dense and quick shell!
With guns!! Lot of guns!!
Just now, Erik Seraph said:Yeah!!
Yes!!
Ship's armor; I say, my new body.
I'm just a brain inside a dense and quick shell!
With guns!! Lot of guns!!
Decide for Pete's sake, do I target the character, than coordination dodge applies or do you transcendent and become the ship and thus rules from planetary scale apply and thus no dodge nor coordination dodge
You are not getting magically new thrusters bolted to the ship, just because you change the interface from joystick to data jack. ;-)
3 minutes ago, SEApocalypse said:Decide for Pete's sake, do I target the character, than coordination dodge applies or do you transcendent and become the ship and thus rules from planetary scale apply and thus no dodge nor coordination dodge
You are not getting magically new thrusters bolted to the ship, just because you change the interface from joystick to data jack. ;-)
kkkkkkkkkkkkkk
Ok, I got the idea.
If I remember, a similar question was posed with using Sense Control upgrade when piloting a ship. Think the final answer was "NO" as the ship, not the PC, would be the target of the attack.
Read Intuitive Evasion, that's how it would be written if it could be applied to vehicle combat.
I'd say no personally.
Three reasons.
RAW (as others have mentioned) the talent pretty clearly states that it is when the character is targeted by a combat check. In the given scenario it is a vehicle piloted by the character targeted, not the character.
RAI I don't think this was ever intended to affect vehicle combat.
And third, I don't think it's all that balanced compared to most other uses of destiny points.