Alternate art, featuring a certain Ms. Bei Fong:

57 minutes ago, LordBlunt said:

After much thought concerning this card, I have to say that I fear opposing cards that can simply bow a personality, which would severely remove not only this card's function, but 'ax' Dragon's theme of powerful single characters taking on other personalities during Mil and Pol conflicts. (am not explaining this correctly)

If Dragon personalities have dueling abilities that force 1 vs 1 combat, then this card can be elevated a tad higher in my judgement. As it stands, this card can be shut down too easily, I'm afraid. ?

Maybe I'm just crying wolf...

Well I just want to notice that the bowing abilities don't counter this card per se. It is a reaction to winning the conflict and we don't even know if there is an action window there(probably not). Which means that your character might be bowed during conflict but then you don't need to cast this card - at least you don't lose it and fate you invested in it.

And Lion will be probably the usual splash for dragon with Ready for Battle being a very powerful anti bow card(also few attachments dragon could use). If dragon themselves get any anti bow the voltron strategy might end up being pretty good.

Dunno if it would be good for the game though

15 hours ago, JRosen9 said:

I haven't tried playing yet, but how often do you win controlling a single character in conflict? I know single voltron guys is supposed to be dragon's schtick, but I feel if I roll up with one guy he will be bowed or taken care of somehow.

Seconded. Also, I think it's called Noble Sacrifice, but yeah. That card means the Crane matchup is a rough one immediately. Super-unit shenanigans can be fun for me, but the strategy as a whole is seriously c-tier in my opinion, and therefore, so is all support for it.

Splash Crane for Above Question, and Voilà!

16 hours ago, Joe From Cincinnati said:

I'm actually a huge fan of this card. We've already seen the prodigy character that can attack alone and then your opponent can only defend with one character.

If they do indeed have a robust 'Voltron' theme based on their attachments and heavy hitting characters, this event could be fantastic.

The trick will be how to keep that one character readied and in the conflict. I think Lion would be a good clan to splash into Dragon in order to get Ready for Battle to prevent things like the Crane event, Admit Defeat on defense or any other bow effects that may come out.

Yes, it seems like Lion has a few cards that can be a good splash in that kind of dragon deck. Ready for Battle can help ensuring the use of your single bushi, and Guidance of the ancestors is a recurring attachment, which can trigger from the discard pile, any "if this character has an attachment" abilities dragon personalities may have (I do expect some of that). The other attachment, honored blade, shows less sinergy, but ain´t no bad anyway (+2 mil for 1 inf and 1 fate).

But we have not seen other clans yet. One of the Crab cards we have seen, Reprieve, does both things: protecting the prodigy and, as it is an attachment itself, triggers any ability related to that.

I expect more bowing than removal effects, so maybe ready for battle is more usable, but we will allways be able to use reprieve in order to avoid the character from simply fading...

Those kind of choices will probably be related to the meta in a particular moment. Good. That would encourage diversity.

By the way. I hate the terminology about the deck as "Vorlon". We should think of a new one: like the "Prodigy strategy", for example... :-)

If FFG's Dragon "attachment heavy" theme looks anything like AEG's Crab Heroes did back in the day, then I'm all in (ie: "I'm gonna bow/send home/kill you!" ... "No.").

If not, I think the idea may already be dead in the water.

31 minutes ago, Koriume said:

By the way. I hate the terminology about the deck as "Vorlon". We should think of a new one: like the "Prodigy strategy", for example... :-)

Hey, man. Togashi Kosh is a Vorlon, and he's a pretty cool guy.

18 hours ago, JRosen9 said:

I haven't tried playing yet, but how often do you win controlling a single character in conflict? I know single voltron guys is supposed to be dragon's schtick, but I feel if I roll up with one guy he will be bowed or taken care of somehow.

It's mixed in my play. Early on, yeah, it's possible, but I don't think Crane or Lion clans that work well with single characters. It looks like Dragon may be better at single characters and voltron.

Maybe it's worth splashing crane for Above Question to save guys from being hit with events.

1 hour ago, RandomJC said:

It's mixed in my play. Early on, yeah, it's possible, but I don't think Crane or Lion clans that work well with single characters. It looks like Dragon may be better at single characters and voltron.

Maybe it's worth splashing crane for Above Question to save guys from being hit with events.

Issue with Above Question is the cost 2 influence... maybe x2 is good enough, given the Agasha Swordsmith will be able to search for it.

I dont think the Indomitable will is a great card (to me it is too conditional), but it may be a must in this kind of deck, unfortunately.

It's a great card, I'm pretty sure conflicts with just a single character on the Dragon side will happen a lot.

4 hours ago, Ser Nakata said:

Splash Crane for Above Question, and Voilà!

Dragon Voltron will have a few interesting splash choices but Crane seems interesting.

Above Question, Voice of Honor, Admit Defeat, Perfect Gift and even Height of Fashion all have synergy with a Voltron.

For VoH, Voltrons usually have a couple fodder side kicks and Togashi Initiate helps you have more honorable characters!

That being said if Dragon Voltron doesn't have a native unbow reaction I think Lion becomes the go-to as Ready for Battle, Sashimono, and Stand Your Ground provide everything a Voltron wants!

1 hour ago, Koriume said:

Issue with Above Question is the cost 2 influence... maybe x2 is good enough, given the Agasha Swordsmith will be able to search for it.

I dont think the Indomitable will is a great card (to me it is too conditional), but it may be a must in this kind of deck, unfortunately.

(My original post looks lost to time)

I'd love Sashimono to splash into my Unicorn deck, and that's a 2 influence, 2 fate cost card.

Sashimono and Indomitable will have their upsides and downsides. But Dragon alone in a conflict, considering the Voltron feel we have going for them doesn't seem a hard requirement to make.

10 minutes ago, RandomJC said:

(My original post looks lost to time)

I'd love Sashimono to splash into my Unicorn deck, and that's a 2 influence, 2 fate cost card.

Sashimono and Indomitable will have their upsides and downsides. But Dragon alone in a conflict, considering the Voltron feel we have going for them doesn't seem a hard requirement to make.

Yeah. I think dragon can probably use it. Sashimono costs more, lasts longer and you don't have to win. It does have to be military but if you use it you will always take a military action.

51 minutes ago, Devin-the-Poet said:

Yeah. I think dragon can probably use it. Sashimono costs more, lasts longer and you don't have to win. It does have to be military but if you use it you will always take a military action.

Sashimono might not work great in a Dragon deck, but I think it may work nice splashed in Unicorn, with movement tricks. There already is a Unicorn character who unbows herself.

personally, I like Sashimono because it can stay around, but I'm in no way trying to say Indomitable Will is a bad card.

This card feels too weak to use unless you almost always have dudes solo'ing provinces. It is a really restrictive card to play with a fairly high cost for what it does (1 fate and a card). I'm guessing there will be stronger cards to run rather than this.

It will depend on the flow of the game though. It only feels useful is you are regularly attacking both Political AND Military in a turn. Maybe that will be common, especially if dragon regularly swings at one weakly, uses this, then does the stronger attack with the other. Or dragon is able to chump block and regularly expect to win regularly.

2 hours ago, Mirith said:

It will depend on the flow of the game though. It only feels useful is you are regularly attacking both Political AND Military in a turn. Maybe that will be common, especially if dragon regularly swings at one weakly, uses this, then does the stronger attack with the other. Or dragon is able to chump block and regularly expect to win regularly.

It does a little more than that. Since defenders also bow from conflict resolution this gives you more options in planning your counterattack. For example you could commit more on your first defense because you are expecting bow and/or send home effects, but, you know you can keep your best character unbowed. Then make a water ring attack to unbow one of your other characters to give you more to defend your opponent's second attack or save for your own second attack.

Unless the rules are only allowing you to play this when you never had more than one character at the conflict at any point.

Typically it will be a straight up big unit staple, but, I think the effect is well worth the cost.

19 minutes ago, Ishi Tonu said:

It does a little more than that. Since defenders also bow from conflict resolution this gives you more options in planning your counterattack. For example you could commit more on your first defense because you are expecting bow and/or send home effects, but, you know you can keep your best character unbowed. Then make a water ring attack to unbow one of your other characters to give you more to defend your opponent's second attack or save for your own second attack.

Unless the rules are only allowing you to play this when you never had more than one character at the conflict at any point.

Typically it will be a straight up big unit staple, but, I think the effect is well worth the cost.

I don't think the logic of "Well I'll commit 2 guys, since one will get set home" is really a good justification for this card. Depending on the board state, your opponent could see you commit 2 on the defense, think "Oh, well if I don't send either home, my opponent can't play Indomitable Will" and now two of his guys will bow. Committing a single unit is fine, and it does open up some defensive options, but it still also costs 1 fate.

My main issue is that you have to KNOW that you will win a fight with a single unit before using this card. I'm guessing that even in just the core set, there will be other cards you would rather have more of the time. Or if you don't have anything better, just throw one of them in the deck, just in case.

13 hours ago, Mirith said:

My main issue is that you have to KNOW that you will win a fight with a single unit before using this card. I'm guessing that even in just the core set, there will be other cards you would rather have more of the time. Or if you don't have anything better, just throw one of them in the deck, just in case.

What do you mean by "you need to KNOW that you will win the conflict before you play this card"? It is a reaction to winning the conflict so the opposite of what you say is true - if you won the conflict you can play it, if you didn't you cannot, you don't need to know anything.

Did you playtest the game already? I can tell you that having your Toturi unbowed can screw with your opponent big time and is well worth 1 fate cost. I can imagine it might be worth even more if the Dragon clan champion has a reaction that can be used in both types of conflict.

16 hours ago, BordOne said:

What do you mean by "you need to KNOW that you will win the conflict before you play this card"? It is a reaction to winning the conflict so the opposite of what you say is true - if you won the conflict you can play it, if you didn't you cannot, you don't need to know anything.

Did you playtest the game already? I can tell you that having your Toturi unbowed can screw with your opponent big time and is well worth 1 fate cost. I can imagine it might be worth even more if the Dragon clan champion has a reaction that can be used in both types of conflict.

For a card to be of value, you need to know it will be useful. For you to know it will be useful, you need to know that you can play it at a time where it will impact the board state. No, I haven't play-tested the game yet, but I can at least think through on how I can play a card. There is always a 'hidden' cost to playing/drawing a particular card. It could have been another card. If you hadn't included this card, maybe the 3rd Mirumoto's Fury could have been drawn. Or another of the 0 cost 2F weapon. This is the purpose of the strategy behind deckbuilding games.

To play this card effectively, it needs to used to change the tempo. The point of this card is to allow you to supply an extra guy during an attack later in the turn that you wouldn't have won in the first place otherwise. If you would have won the 2 battles without the extra guy, you don't need this card. Ideally, it would grant you an extra broken province.

This is a card you need to plan around to be useful. You need to plan enough resources in advance that you can leverage using this card to achieve either the extra defense or extra offense you were expecting. So you need to know that during your first conflict, when you commit to it, you will have exactly one dude remaining at the conflict, and you need to know that you can win that conflict, and gain something useful. Otherwise you just split your forces to achieve nothing, because now you just not only lost the first conflict, and whatever negative consequences resulted, but you lost the second conflict you were you needed the extra body.

So given my entire explanation, I feel like this card is far to conditional to use effectively. Say you had a card. Say the card said "Action: Sacrifice your military attack, Roll a 1d6. On a 6, destroy an opponents province. " Would you play that card? Or would you rather play something that instead helps you win a battle reliably?

I'm not saying this card is actively bad. By playing this card, you won't lose the game. However, there will probably, fairly quickly, be better alternatives in your deck. It may also prove that someone will be able to field single unit armies that will regularly crush other armies and take provinces. I don't see that happening immediately though.

I just remembered that it could swing the imperial favor as an additional use, but I'm not sure if that is strong enough. I think the conditions where it would swing that are far less likely than what I described above.

Winning a battle with one guy or gal isn't exactly "too conditional" from some playtesting I've seen.

I also wouldn't compare it to a random percentile action since there's nothing random about the card nor does it sacrifice a military attack. This is especially true since it can be used on a successful attack or defense. This card could actually potentially allow your lone character to attack again or defend against the opponent.

I'd also add that this doesn't necessarily need to make your army break a province to have some use. I'd personally use it even on a 'poke' attack (i.e. attacking for a ring effect only, to reveal a province, or to force blockers) if I really needed that character for the second use.

5 hours ago, Mirith said:

For a card to be of value, you need to know it will be useful. For you to know it will be useful, you need to know that you can play it at a time where it will impact the board state. No, I haven't play-tested the game yet, but I can at least think through on how I can play a card. There is always a 'hidden' cost to playing/drawing a particular card. It could have been another card. If you hadn't included this card, maybe the 3rd Mirumoto's Fury could have been drawn. Or another of the 0 cost 2F weapon. This is the purpose of the strategy behind deckbuilding games.

Mirumoto's fury is far worse in late game than this card. And even in early game I am not sure if it is very far ahead in power. Tapping one guy on defence is the same as untapping one of your own guys especially if you control a particularly strong one, the surprise factor is the same(the only difference is that it counts in later conflict not in the same one which can be both an advantage and disadvantage). Fine Katana can win you conflicts just like this card can. And this card has a potential to count as far more strength than katana, just in another conflict.

5 hours ago, Mirith said:

To play this card effectively, it needs to used to change the tempo. The point of this card is to allow you to supply an extra guy during an attack later in the turn that you wouldn't have won in the first place otherwise. If you would have won the 2 battles without the extra guy, you don't need this card. Ideally, it would grant you an extra broken province.

This is a card you need to plan around to be useful. You need to plan enough resources in advance that you can leverage using this card to achieve either the extra defense or extra offense you were expecting. So you need to know that during your first conflict, when you commit to it, you will have exactly one dude remaining at the conflict, and you need to know that you can win that conflict, and gain something useful. Otherwise you just split your forces to achieve nothing, because now you just not only lost the first conflict, and whatever negative consequences resulted, but you lost the second conflict you were you needed the extra body.

Every turn actually there are four battles not two, and the card can be triggered both on defence and offence, so for it to be effective you need to trigger it either on your first attack or opponents first attack. If you would win 2 battles without extra guy and you don't need additional defence this card can grant you, you are already so far ahead that you don't need any help.

Ideally it can bring you extra broken province, yes, it can also give you a claim, or deny opponent both.

Sorry but you don't need to plan any rescources around this card. If you are not Lion you almost always pass with at least 1 fate into conflict. And again you don't need to know anything. You send out your overbuffed dude at one of their provinces and they either overcommit on defence and you a)still win because you have more tricks b)lose and now opponent will have hard time to do anything else, or you just straight up win. In the a) case you just cast Indomitable will and suddenly opponent thinking that they sacrificed one conflict to get more advantage in their own are going to be sent to the world of pain. You can do it on defence too.

Splitting forces doesn't achieve nothing, to the contrary: it splits forces of your opponent. If they make any slight miscalculation or neglect it you immediately punish them hard with this card. If they didn't you have 1 more fate to play other cards and less strength to worry about from the other side of the board.

5 hours ago, Mirith said:

So given my entire explanation, I feel like this card is far to conditional to use effectively. Say you had a card. Say the card said "Action: Sacrifice your military attack, Roll a 1d6. On a 6, destroy an opponents province. " Would you play that card? Or would you rather play something that instead helps you win a battle reliably?

Where did you get percentages or randomness from? You either play this card or save it for later, there is no chance of failure. This card is more akin to conditional win effects similar to fallen in battle. Fallen in battle works only if you win a conflict with 5 more strength than opponent. It is weak because you can only target participating characters. However in Agot you have Put to the Sword a card with the same conditions but works on any character. It is from core set and sees very heavy play up to this day.

For a more close comparison: would you play a card that says: reaction: when you win a conflict with a single character you control bow another target character? Because I sure as heck would and it is arguably worse.

5 hours ago, Mirith said:

I'm not saying this card is actively bad. By playing this card, you won't lose the game. However, there will probably, fairly quickly, be better alternatives in your deck. It may also prove that someone will be able to field single unit armies that will regularly crush other armies and take provinces. I don't see that happening immediately though.

That's why I asked you if you have played the game. You seem to think that attacking with one character is something rare. To the contrary its rather common especially during early turns or turns where fate drops to zero on a bunch of characters. And again you don't need to destroy a province for this card to be useful.

Arguably every card will be replaced later by a better card as everything gets more optimized with more releases so I dont see you point. The card is not bad now and that's it. We will see how it turns out in playtesting.

6 hours ago, Mirith said:

For you to know it will be useful, you need to know that you can play it at a time where it will impact the board state.

The card literally says you can only play it as a reaction after winning a conflict with a single character. Given that we know Mirumoto Prodigy is a card that likes to attack alone and Dragon appear to be the "Voltron" faction, it seems to be very likely that there will be situations where it can be reasonably easy to trigger this reaction. The first couple turns of the game also tend to have single character conflicts. If Sashimono is good, then this card is also good if a bit limited in some areas and better in others.

What does "Voltron" mean in this context? Wikipedia tells me that it's the American name for two unrelated giant-robot-anime series, but that doesn't seem relevant here.

8 minutes ago, Kitsu Seinosuke said:

What does "Voltron" mean in this context? Wikipedia tells me that it's the American name for two unrelated giant-robot-anime series, but that doesn't seem relevant here.

Voltron is indeed a reference to the giant robot series. Voltron was formed when lesser robots combined to make a more powerful/larger robot.

In L5R context it means loading up a single character with a bunch of attachments and/or cards that temporarily boost stats.

1 minute ago, Kyoden Kurosora said:

In L5R context it means loading up a single character with a bunch of attachments and/or cards that temporarily boost stats.

Thank you.

I'm guessing in order to make this viable, Dragon would need some event protection; otherwise cards like For Shame! would be extremely powerful against them.