5 hours ago, Rat of Vengence said:

Do I have to explain why quoting results from BEFORE nerfs doesn't make your case?

Very well. Top 5 lists since the nerf, which happened more than three months ago in the middle of March, according to Meta-Wing:

Parattanni, RauBoats, Old Fennaroo, DengarTel, Triple Scouts.

I give you one guess at to what all of those squads have in common.

All four Jumpmaster pilots are in the Top 6 pilots in June.

Remove 360, off the Jumpmaster, then you can dodge it (with good flying).

This is disgusting. On my last store's I played against 5 scum players. Different lists (brobots, triple jumps, palobtanni, scum alpha, and scum swarm), but still i dont feel like playing this game for some time.

1 hour ago, Amaimon said:

This is disgusting. On my last store's I played against 5 scum players. Different lists (brobots, triple jumps, palobtanni, scum alpha, and scum swarm), but still i dont feel like playing this game for some time.

You played against 5 different lists, 2 of which had Jumpmasters. Woe is you?

I seriously have a hard time seeing what about playing against 5 different lists in a store tournament you find disgusting, or why it makes you not want to play.

Frankly whoever played Brobots deserves some respect knuckles.

I was a bit laconic. Those stats are disgusting, the touranament was fine, and the diversity among scum is commendable. On local level everything is fine. When you look at the tops, things start to look ugly. There are two rebel lists, three scum and one imperial, maybe two that matter. Everything else is trash. I know its better than it was in the days of falcon and whisper. Maybe its Just burnout or looking at those stats, and listening to podcasts and their local metas with nothing but oldfenaroo and telgar, that gets me down. Probably the latter.

5 hours ago, SOTL said:

All four Jumpmaster pilots are in the Top 6 pilots in June.

Telling and true as far as my knowledge goes. It is like the pre-nerf Whisper kinda, with the exception that this OP ship is bum-rushing most all tournaments and winning Worlds twice and not getting a Nerf. I guess the Jumpmaster is more like Fat Han of old then...escaping justice and nerfing like a true pirate! Hahaha!

7 hours ago, SOTL said:

All four Jumpmaster pilots are in the Top 6 pilots in June.

Interesting. What events were included in that data? I never said the toilet seat isn't very strong

RoV

3 hours ago, Amaimon said:

Maybe its Just burnout or looking at those stats, and listening to podcasts and their local metas with nothing but oldfenaroo and telgar, that gets me down. Probably the latter.

Take a break from the podcasts, take a break from the doomsaying, and take a deep breath.

The game might not be where you want right now, but we're gonna be fine.

1 hour ago, Rat of Vengence said:

Interesting. What events were included in that data?

meta-wing analyzes all the tournaments entered in Lists Juggler, and by default uses the last month for its analysis. That's a total of ~2500 tournaments since early 2015 with over 50k entered lists, and over 100 newly entered tournaments per month. I guess SOTL included all the tournaments of a month for each column, which corresponds to about 80-150 tournaments per column.

Crowdsourced data is awesome

Its pretty **** cool The problem is, does it show the results or just what's popular at the time? So does it show effectiveness or merely that something is played a lot? Perhaps because it has the perception of being OP? And as I mentioned earlier, it would still reflect those who were playing the toilet seats pre-nerf but didn't want to change the list/style they had become practiced with.

The sky is indeed not falling

RoV

Never thought that was a swear word... strange...

39 minutes ago, Rat of Vengence said:

Never thought that was a swear word... strange...

What cracks me up about the infantile censorship on these boards (and in other places) is that they have literally the opposite of the intended effect. Instead of making the words "out of sight, out of mind," when we see them censored, our minds start going through the lists of all the cuss-words we know, trying to fill in the blanks.

Otherwise we'd read it and forget it .37 seconds later.

Love to see the community creating this data now! Never thought listjuggler would become so widely used as it is today; I get an email everytime a new tournament is created on the weekend, and it goes crazy on the weekends and Monday with stuff coming in.

14 minutes ago, sozin said:

Love to see the community creating this data now! Never thought listjuggler would become so widely used as it is today; I get an email everytime a new tournament is created on the weekend, and it goes crazy on the weekends and Monday with stuff coming in.

True.

And it assists non-statisticians like me defend the (sometimes crazy) rants about how we see and get our heads handed to us by a specific ship. It's also just cool to see where our favorites fall in the totals. I'm not seeing Interceptor squads in the top ten; which is curious, hahahaha! -laughing in tears-

10 hours ago, Rat of Vengence said:

Its pretty **** cool The problem is, does it show the results or just what's popular at the time? So does it show effectiveness or merely that something is played a lot?

Why do you think it's popular? It's not new, there's been two waves since it came out.

First, make every right bank or turn red. Then, when the **** thing is still the meta-king, increase all pilot costs by 5. I don't care if they're nerfed to oblivion - I just want to guarantee they're not in the top spot.

26 minutes ago, Astech said:

First, make every right bank or turn red. Then, when the **** thing is still the meta-king, increase all pilot costs by 5. I don't care if they're nerfed to oblivion - I just want to guarantee they're not in the top spot.

On beer nights, if you fly 'em, you must use the HWK dial....now they're middle of the pack ?

35 minutes ago, Astech said:

First, make every right bank or turn red. Then, when the **** thing is still the meta-king, increase all pilot costs by 5. I don't care if they're nerfed to oblivion - I just want to guarantee they're not in the top spot.

Yes, the wanted to do asymetrial dial and the failed miserably by this. This thing is still a turret so the should have had no fear for making a:

Everything straight - white

Everything left - green

Everythin right - red

Also drop Astromech, the 4K turn, and make both sloops red.

On 6/30/2017 at 2:20 AM, SOTL said:

All four Jumpmaster pilots are in the Top 6 pilots in June.

I've looked into the ranking "system" Meta-wing uses and I disagree with it entirely. It is known that "statistics" can be bent to a large degree. To me this chart is propaganda and/or fake news. The sample size for the data, though significant, is not large enough to provide the accuracy people think these rankings have.

To give an example of what it has wrong: In June, Manaroo is ranked 5th and Miranda is ranked 9th. Since the nerf, Miranda is definitively a better ship than Manaroo. Biggs is easily still top10 and he is gone from top10 in June. Additionally, the response time of these rankings is significantly off. The list of ships each month is about 2-3 months out of date. To know the current meta you simply have to participate in tournaments.

However, what you are posting is anecdotal. I'm not doubting you, however statements like, 'Since the nerf, Miranda is definitively a better ship than Manaroo," require something to prove it, if what you are doing is accusing another database of being 'fake news'. You aren't going to get away with an accusation of a database with name calling, and not backing that up with some other data.

Again, I'm not saying your point isn't true. But it doesn't have anything to back it up like data.

4 hours ago, Dengar5 said:

I've looked into the ranking "system" Meta-wing uses and I disagree with it entirely. It is known that "statistics" can be bent to a large degree. To me this chart is propaganda and/or fake news. The sample size for the data, though significant, is not large enough to provide the accuracy people think these rankings have.

To give an example of what it has wrong: In June, Manaroo is ranked 5th and Miranda is ranked 9th. Since the nerf, Miranda is definitively a better ship than Manaroo. Biggs is easily still top10 and he is gone from top10 in June. Additionally, the response time of these rankings is significantly off. The list of ships each month is about 2-3 months out of date. To know the current meta you simply have to participate in tournaments.

"Ignore the data, go to a tournament and whatever the anecdotal evidence you see is the real proof!"

I haven't heard such ignorant nonsense since the last time I watched the news. Seriously, here we have some real evidence, actaully compiled from thousands of results in a fair and objective manner, but your "gut" disagree's, you think Miranda is better? Well the stats disagree. Numbers dont lie, but poeple do, and poeple act really stupid as well.

it is always good to question the quality of dataset! in the case of the community collected xwing results submitted to list juggler, I think we have a pretty good sample across a wide variety of metas around the world. It isn't complete by any means, but it is what we have!

Edit: with respect to @hasloHaslo's ranking algorithms, because his code is open source and his methodology is public, disagreement is always welcome, especially when accompanied by alternative models or techniques built in the list juggler data set! I am curious, @Dengar5 do you have any specific criticisms of his model, or do you have any alternative (published/open source) models that you think present alternate reads of he raw data?

7 hours ago, xstormtrooperx said:

Yes, the wanted to do asymetrial dial and the failed miserably by this. This thing is still a turret so the should have had no fear for making a:

Everything straight - white

Everything left - green

Everythin right - red

Or, they could have gone for true asymmetry and do a dial where some moves were non-existent on one side. If the justification is that the engine arrangement makes going left better; how about it can't go hard right at all? As you say, it still has a turret...

22 hours ago, thespaceinvader said:

Why do you think it's popular? It's not new, there's been two waves since it came out.

I didn't say it was 'new', not sure where you got that from while missing the point at the same time...

RoV