TIE/sf and Defenders are VERY good against Attani lists because they just have much better action economy. I've never even come close to losing to an Attani list.

It's the Dengar/Tels of this world holding them down.

1 minute ago, ficklegreendice said:

I admit it's probably more difficult to win games with imperial ships than just running jm5ks into each other and still getting full mods ala k4 and attani (and then always having a shot because the PWT is a stupid game mechanic), but SF and x7s are strong enough and high PS to ruin scouts before they get a torp off (over two rounds)

defenders are also beefy as all hell and can take a surprising amount of punishment, so they don't stack up too badly against the massive amounts of red dice being thrown

2 3 die primaries vs. a single Torp Scout, I agree.

2 3 die primaires vs. dual Torp Scouts? Not sure I see what you mean.

Just now, Scopes said:

2 3 die primaries vs. a single Torp Scout, I agree.

2 3 die primaires vs. dual Torp Scouts? Not sure I see what you mean.

sry, I meant scouts as a general term

if you want to beat two scouts without them firing off a single torp, you'll have to use good obstacle placement and positioning to outwit the seggy's the round after you've jumped (heh) into range 1

Just now, ficklegreendice said:

sry, I meant scouts as a general term

if you want to beat two scouts without them firing off a single torp, you'll have to use good obstacle placement and positioning to outwit the seggy's the round after you've jumped (heh) into range 1

Gotcha.

I like the T/SF, but without ordinance, I am not sure how a list with 2 of them (plus 1 filler) gets the job done against high-health opponents.

I can't see flying the SF without at least Primed Thrusters, if not PA; how else do you make use of the dial?

honestly, no idea. I also love primed thrusters on BD because goddamn if that 3-turn isn't useful for arc-dodging (and still contributing with your aux arc)

I think two SF + filler (probably OL) can down a scout fairly reliably in two rounds. We had one such list take 3/4th (the two players went home after losing) place after cut in a store championship and there were some 3/4 Fenn scouts floating around in the 36 player pool plus a lot of other Jm5k or beefier ships (1 dengar/tel, 3 kanan/Biggs, 3/4 Fenn + Terry + Manny, 1 paratani, 1 dengar + asajj). Same as defenders, you engage at range 3 while they can't get locks (much higher ps) and then kill it off the following around

Quickdraw farts out a LOT of dice, though, and has a lot of offensive while she is able to use her ability. Tried her out with Expertise + fcs just last Tuesday, and it's actually a little disgusting to (temporarily) feel like Dengar but much cheaper

My record is 21-3 with QD/BD/Vessery (some of those games are QD/Vader/Vessery). I know my list has been picked up after I blogged it, and it's won at least three store championships in the hands of other players as well.

My three defeats are all to Dengar/Bossk or Dengar/Tel. I think it's a winnable match but very tough. Everything else is being beaten pretty comfortably. Not played against the new wave of Dash/Miranda lists yet.

5 minutes ago, ficklegreendice said:

Quickdraw farts out a LOT of dice, though, and has a lot of offensive while she is able to use her ability. Tried her out with Expertise + fcs just last Tuesday, and it's actually a little disgusting to (temporarily) feel like Dengar but much cheaper

Love this. Made me laugh. Oh, to be able to get sweet revenge...

I'm too much a coward to continue to run my Interceptors at the LGS, so I gave Scum a try and find it so stress releasing, I haven't attempted putting my one casual SF build on the table yet. However, with that long-winded back-story behind us, I have noticed one bloke who does nicely against Paratani builds, and I think I have his list correct as I have loitered behind him like some creepy guy as I see how he's doing. He's quite the Inqy flier...amazing actually; Inqy seems to be his star even though the other two are arguably "better" ships. Crazy thing is, he holds onto those Rockets way past everyone who's viewing's comfort level, and they seem to always make an opponent's ship evaporate. Anyway, he doesn't run the patented Quickdraw that seems to be so popular among the Imperial remanent, his list looks like this, I'm pretty sure:

Backdraft (31) - TIE/SF Fighter (27), Adaptability (0), Fire Control System (2), Sensor Cluster (2), Special Ops Training (0)

Colonel Vessery (35) - TIE Defender (35), Veteran Instincts (1), TIE/x7 (-2), Twin Ion Engine Mk. II (1)

The Inquisitor (34) - TIE Adv. Prototype (25), Push The Limit (3), Proton Rockets (3), TIE/v1 (1), Autothrusters (2)

1 hour ago, SOTL said:

My record is 21-3 with QD/BD/Vessery (some of those games are QD/Vader/Vessery). I know my list has been picked up after I blogged it, and it's won at least three store championships in the hands of other players as well.

My three defeats are all to Dengar/Bossk or Dengar/Tel. I think it's a winnable match but very tough. Everything else is being beaten pretty comfortably. Not played against the new wave of Dash/Miranda lists yet.

How do you handle the lack of a bid for your PS9s? I've been having some trouble pinning down Fenn Rau and that has me strongly considering switching to Adaptability Quickdraw.

Partly experience of running TIE Swarm last year and having to hunt Soontir. He can't dodge everything all the time, and against Rauboats it's important to be unpredictable about your target selection and where you are on the table - it's far better to split your fire over two ships on two turns (usually bad X-Wing play!) than it is to be too committed to finishing a target off and letting Fenn or a boat get a bead on you at their optimal ranges.

Play defensively and avoid their big hits because your ships can shrug off their turrets or Range 2-3 Fenn hits, just whittle them down.

2 hours ago, SOTL said:

My record is 21-3 with QD/BD/Vessery (some of those games are QD/Vader/Vessery). I know my list has been picked up after I blogged it, and it's won at least three store championships in the hands of other players as well.

My three defeats are all to Dengar/Bossk or Dengar/Tel. I think it's a winnable match but very tough. Everything else is being beaten pretty comfortably. Not played against the new wave of Dash/Miranda lists yet.

What stress givers have you been seeing?

1 hour ago, defkhan1 said:

How do you handle the lack of a bid for your PS9s? I've been having some trouble pinning down Fenn Rau and that has me strongly considering switching to Adaptability Quickdraw.

1 hour ago, SOTL said:

Partly experience of running TIE Swarm last year and having to hunt Soontir. He can't dodge everything all the time, and against Rauboats it's important to be unpredictable about your target selection and where you are on the table - it's far better to split your fire over two ships on two turns (usually bad X-Wing play!) than it is to be too committed to finishing a target off and letting Fenn or a boat get a bead on you at their optimal ranges.

Play defensively and avoid their big hits because your ships can shrug off their turrets or Range 2-3 Fenn hits, just whittle them down.

I've done basically the exact same thing when playing against Fenn. I almost don't even think it's worth it to try and bid with Imperials, because a Scum list can really make a huge bid if it wants to. Just learn to play going first.

26 minutes ago, SabineKey said:

What stress givers have you been seeing?

At the moment very few, though stress doesn't really worry me much.

Im actually considering dropping my TIE MkII engines for Juke as there's not enough stress to justify them. Stress is pretty absent from the meta generally - I think only 4 of the top 20 archetypes deal stress.

2 hours ago, SOTL said:

My record is 21-3 with QD/BD/Vessery (some of those games are QD/Vader/Vessery). I know my list has been picked up after I blogged it, and it's won at least three store championships in the hands of other players as well.

My three defeats are all to Dengar/Bossk or Dengar/Tel. I think it's a winnable match but very tough. Everything else is being beaten pretty comfortably. Not played against the new wave of Dash/Miranda lists yet.

I ran a similar list to your the other night. I've not flown Defenders for months and did terribly! It doesn't help that against a Tie/D Vessery with 1 focus, I threw 13 red Dice at it (My Vessery at range 1, Quickdraw x2 for 6 Dice and Backdraft 3 Dice), all with rerolls; and I did bugger all damage XD

Will definitely give it more practice, but this weekend my 3rd will be an Starkiller Upsilon with PA and FCS.

27 minutes ago, SOTL said:

At the moment very few, though stress doesn't really worry me much.

Im actually considering dropping my TIE MkII engines for Juke as there's not enough stress to justify them. Stress is pretty absent from the meta generally - I think only 4 of the top 20 archetypes deal stress.

Yeah, I've been seeing similar trends in my area, which I find odd considering how much stress shuts down. Not that I'm complaining.

3 hours ago, SOTL said:

At the moment very few, though stress doesn't really worry me much.

Im actually considering dropping my TIE MkII engines for Juke as there's not enough stress to justify them. Stress is pretty absent from the meta generally - I think only 4 of the top 20 archetypes deal stress.

If I could just pick your brain a bit more, what do you think of squeezing TIE/D Vessery into your list? If you strip Backdraft to barebones (FCS, LWF), you can fit a TIE/D Tractor Beam Vessery with Adaptability. Gives your squad a ton of front loaded damage at the cost of some survivability.

Why not both? I personally like Backdraft with FCS and Vessery. Add in Omega Leader for ALL the target Locks. So much win.

Double post see below.

13 hours ago, Suriel said:

I like this
Backdraft Veteran Instincts Fire-Control System Lightweight Frame Special Ops Training
Quickdraw A Score To Settle Fire-Control System Lightweight Frame Special Ops Training
Colonel Vessery Juke TIE/x7

Vess is a very solid pick, but for a point cheaper I make this recommendation:

Maarek x7 VI

99 total

Only run it once in Vassal but so cool.

Now you're running three beef Imps at PS9 and you leave Maarek to shoot last and crit fish. Also few lists want to fly even remotely head on when there's potential to be PS killed.

6 hours ago, defkhan1 said:

If I could just pick your brain a bit more, what do you think of squeezing TIE/D Vessery into your list? If you strip Backdraft to barebones (FCS, LWF), you can fit a TIE/D Tractor Beam Vessery with Adaptability. Gives your squad a ton of front loaded damage at the cost of some survivability.

I'm severely not a fan of /D. Paying 3 extra to offer your opponent an easy target doesn't float my boat.

20 hours ago, Jarval said:

You say that, but I won against triple bombing Ks and the Worlds Dengar/Tel list twice at the Store Championship with the list above. The TIE/SF is surprisingly good, at least when it comes to the named pilots.

As with a lot of medium-weight fighters. The Khiraxz, Protectorate, T-65 X-wing, etc, all boil down to one or more named pilots. The TIE/sf is not really different - it's expensive enough (especially once you've started using it's fearsome number of upgrade slots) that the extra cost of a named pilot is an easy sell.

But yes, TIE/sf have the flexibility to be what you need them to be - they make pretty decent missile bombers, as well as good up close dogfighters.

14 minutes ago, Magnus Grendel said:

As with a lot of medium-weight fighters. The Khiraxz, Protectorate, T-65 X-wing, etc, all boil down to one or more named pilots. The TIE/sf is not really different - it's expensive enough (especially once you've started using it's fearsome number of upgrade slots) that the extra cost of a named pilot is an easy sell.

But yes, TIE/sf have the flexibility to be what you need them to be - they make pretty decent missile bombers, as well as good up close dogfighters.

It's partly because the two named pilots' abilities are so strong. Backdraft's ability gives you better than three dice out the rear with a guaranteed crit, making both arcs a big threat. Quickdraw is Dengar on a budget, and can really complicate your opponent's target priority decisions. At only 2 points more than an Omega Specialist for a 2 PS bump and a big boost to damage, there's very little reason not to take Backdraft...

25 minutes ago, Jarval said:

It's partly because the two named pilots' abilities are so strong. Backdraft's ability gives you better than three dice out the rear with a guaranteed crit, making both arcs a big threat. Quickdraw is Dengar on a budget, and can really complicate your opponent's target priority decisions. At only 2 points more than an Omega Specialist for a 2 PS bump and a big boost to damage, there's very little reason not to take Backdraft...

but wow. even adding a crit nowadays is so underwhelmingggggg. Seriously. Range 2 shot? Roll focus blank, add a crit? WDF is going to take damage to that at all??

7 minutes ago, Blail Blerg said:

but wow. even adding a crit nowadays is so underwhelmingggggg. Seriously. Range 2 shot? Roll focus blank, add a crit? WDF is going to take damage to that at all??

If you're rolling focus blank with BD's butt guns and not being able to modify, you're probably doing something wrong (not to mention that focus blank is a terrible roll anyway, average would be hit blank or hit focus). He's usually going to have TL/focus on basically all his rear arc shots because of Fire Control System. Changes of getting no hits on your actual guns are very low, before you add the crit.

I mean, you could say the same thing about the TIE Phantom. 4 dice are so underwhelming what if you roll all blanks? Well... you're not that likely to roll all blanks, and apart from your first shot per target, you're almost always going to have Target Lock, and mostly going to have focus as well.

I do think it's a fair point that Backdraft's pilot ability is not as good as people think it is.

It's only like having 3.1 dice or something.