Sorry, not trying to be arguementative. Simply saying that I don't personally like someone needing to buy ships they don't want for cards they do. Now I understand there's a certain level of that which will happen, like with upgrade cards. But...not like Jek Porkins is crunched or anything, but if you wanted his X-Wing, you have to buy the entire Epic boxed set. To me that's always been lame. If I felt compelled to go buy sets no matter how much they cost I'd have no problem with it. But to me that's bad business.

Point is, FFG should put out card sets, period. If they, for some insane reason, have to include a ship, that ship should be relevent to the upgrades and also not be of the epic sort. Or even, imo, the $30 sets. I mean, it's pretty clear that what FFG already does, does not solve the problem as it stands.

I think that most would probably agree that Card Packs would be in the best interest of the player base, but so would cutting the MSRP by 50%, however that’s clearly not in the best interests for FFG as well.

With X-Wing being the top ranking tabletop game (last ranking I could find was end of last year) the current business model is working perfectly well from a business/monetary standpoint for FFG, and as they say "if it ain't broke, don’t fix it!".

Some would say that that card packs might be mutually beneficial, but I suspect the bean counters at FFG have told the higher ups otherwise.

Of course there may be a player revolt due to the J5K but that’s a discussion to be had elsewhere

Funny, because a card pack would be one of the easy ways to solve that problem *whistle*

1 hour ago, Mace Windu said:

I hate to point out the obvious but did you even read the first post? he explicitly stated that he has enough T65, TIE LN etc ships that he could ever want to play with but just wants more options for those ships without having to buy redundant models.

I'm aware of that. I was just saying that, if FFG does indeed have their hands tied by some unreasonable restriction preventing them from putting out just a card pack, they could do 2.0 versions of existing ships.

It's definitely not ideal for sure since people would have to buy duplicates of the ships they already have to get new cards.

12 hours ago, SEApocalypse said:

I guess I need to buy another one and just fly a swarm of useless ships then …

...except with the new fixes coming out, they aren't "useless".

8 hours ago, Mace Windu said:

I think that most would probably agree that Card Packs would be in the best interest of the player base, but so would cutting the MSRP by 50%, however that’s clearly not in the best interests for FFG as well.

With X-Wing being the top ranking tabletop game (last ranking I could find was end of last year) the current business model is working perfectly well from a business/monetary standpoint for FFG, and as they say "if it ain't broke, don’t fix it!".

Some would say that that card packs might be mutually beneficial, but I suspect the bean counters at FFG have told the higher ups otherwise.

Of course there may be a player revolt due to the J5K but that’s a discussion to be had elsewhere

That is a fallacy. I cut down my spending by more than half, based on the lack of card packs. I am still spending on sales or special occasions (that C-ROC for example was must buy for showcase) , but being merely number #1 does not say anything about lost revenue or if another approach would be better or worse. It just states that the current approach is working reasonable well. With the licence and star wars marketing from disney that is no big surprise either, especially as the only big competitor is smaller company, has much more limited resource AND a reputation of being assholes (GW). On top it seems like GW is lacking liquid capital for investments.

Now this ain't either an argument for card packs, my own spending habits are anecdotal evidence at best and so is that FFGs business practises being laughing stock at tournaments (I guess that is how it began with GWs reputation as well), but it certainly ain't an argument against card packs either. Not that I do mind printing my own … at least my own printed cards are plastic not cardboard. Cheers to the FAQ cards ;-)

1 hour ago, heychadwick said:

...except with the new fixes coming out, they aren't "useless".

Yeah, totally looking forward to fly 4 generic star vipers with pulse ray shields in the next store championships or maybe 3 nacked Black Sun Enforces + Guri it is.
And I totally will not get mad from having two red ones with the wrong pilots either . I actually bring always my defenders with me, just in case some triple defender list with double ryad shows up. So confusing

Just now, SEApocalypse said:

Yeah, totally looking forward to fly 4 generic star vipers with pulse ray shields in the next store championships or maybe 3 nacked Black Sun Enforces + Guri it is.
And I totally will not get mad from having two red ones with the wrong pilots either . I actually bring always my defenders with me, just in case some triple defender list with double ryad shows up. So confusing ;-)

More to X-wing than Store Championships....

1 hour ago, heychadwick said:

More to X-wing than Store Championships....

Good point, 4 Starviper vs 4 X-Wings sounds like money well spent.
Totally not useless.

Ah, well, maybe they actually add some interesting generics in that box as well, something with EPTs for example.

37 minutes ago, SEApocalypse said:

Good point, 4 Starviper vs 4 X-Wings sounds like money well spent.
Totally not useless.

I know you are being sarcastic, but that does sound like a lot more fun than a tournament to me!!!

Just now, heychadwick said:

I know you are being sarcastic, but that does sound like a lot more fun than a tournament to me!!!

Which is a total valid opinion, but does not change the fact that those extra models are useless for me. ;-)

thing is that if they did packs they would most likely have to sell them for at least $20.00 to make up for just the printing cost alone, if they want to make money they might go for $25-30 dollar range which now we are talking mini prices... My suggestion, get someone outside of the company (freelancer) have them do it with guidance from FFG and they might be able to make the price a bit less.

On 6/21/2017 at 11:49 AM, RufusDaMan said:

I believe I read somewhere that its a licensing issue. Basically it's the fact that their product is the miniature, and everything they sell has to contain at least 1 mini.

It's a rumor. We don't know why FFG hasn't released card packs. We can only guess.

14 minutes ago, DagobahDave said:

It's a rumor. We don't know why FFG hasn't released card packs. We can only guess.

They have repeatedly stated that it doesn't fit their business model.

On 6/22/2017 at 8:45 PM, KelRiever said:

But follow the thread....

Like I said, I think card packs is a smarter move for FFG than what exists, imo.

That's all well and good, but clearly when it comes to X-Wing the FFG team of professionals who make such decisions disagree.

26 minutes ago, AllWingsStandyingBy said:

That's all well and good, but clearly when it comes to X-Wing the FFG team of professionals who make such decisions disagree.

That's why people who buy the game should provide feedback. Because while they're making the game, we're the ones spending money on it...

Just now, KelRiever said:

That's why people who buy the game should provide feedback. Because while they're making the game, we're the ones spending money on it...

I'm pretty sure that after five years as the best-selling Miniatures Game on the market, they're pretty comfortable with their decisions (even despite the fact that the community has been vocally wishing for card-only expansions since Wave 1 dropped).

32 minutes ago, AllWingsStandyingBy said:

Thats all well and good, but clearly w ycomes to X-Wing the FFG team of profession.als who make such decisions disagree.

Appealing to the ''professional' opinions of game designers is a bit of a logical fallicy. Game designers often fall victim to 'cant see the forest for the trees' as they are too clowe to their game.

8 minutes ago, AllWingsStandyingBy said:

I'm pretty sure that after five years as the best-selling Miniatures Game on the market, they're pretty comfortable with their decisions (even despite the fact that the community has been vocally wishing for card-only expansions since Wave 1 dropped).

You'd make a great clone trooper.

And a terrible rebel.

Let me put it that way.

56 minutes ago, AllWingsStandyingBy said:

I'm pretty sure that after five years as the best-selling Miniatures Game on the market, they're pretty comfortable with their decisions (even despite the fact that the community has been vocally wishing for card-only expansions since Wave 1 dropped).

Sounds like the story of games workshop, who are now on their war to a slow, relentless road to irrelevancy ;-)
Besides, this are not decisions game designers even get to make, not when your company is just a side evenement of a multi-billion dollar company who is purely pumping hundreds of millions into the company for its growth potential.

And for the game designers, are they so overworked that they show less knowledge about the game on stream that most hobbyist tournament players? X-Wing is just one of many work projects for them and they are not the guys in charge either.

Besides, I think most agreed on the statement that his is purely a business decision. You see models, which you would have otherwise not sold when you bundle card packs with models. You can room for mistakes as well, because as mentioned one outstanding card WILL see any garbage model/ship without trouble.

Alex is still one of the best commentators on X-wing.

1 hour ago, Sithborg said:

Alex is still one of the best commentators on X-wing.

I like his commenting, but not because of his game play knowledge, but because of him being entertaining. Though I actually would rate the team covenant casting higher. Leaves Alex still as one of the best for X-Wing.

To me, you do the best job you can play testing a game before release, and then you simply realize that when it hits public consumption, a player base a hundred times the size is going to find everything wrong with your game better and faster than any test team ever could.

FFG to me has generally done a good job not letting the latter thing become an excuse for not play testing well. Generally, they do a good job of correcting too. But the current state has gone on too long and when there is an easy answer, called sell some card pack upgrades rather than waiting for a ship to get designed and go into production...whatever...I think excuses like not wanting to release cards without a ship make a lot less sense.

Do the card thing. People will buy it. Just like they bought that other thing they swore they used and still sits in a box on a shelf. Come on, you know what figures I'm talking about...;)

Except it isn't a designer driven decision. FFG has determined their business model, and the designers have to design within those constraints.

1 minute ago, Sithborg said:

Except it isn't a designer driven decision. FFG has determined their business model, and the designers have to design within those constraints.

Yes, I get that. And what I'm saying is all people have the ability to change their minds about stuff. Holes poked into the business model ideas, already, ad nauseum about this post. So aside from stubbornness and super secret hidden reasons we can only pretend matter, why wouldn't they figure it out again?