Is Kyle Ren's shuttle worth the $ to try it? If you think yes then what list builds work well with it, thx for all future help.

I think the only thing I use from the set is the Kylo Ren crew card and, sometimes, the Targeting Synchronizer upgrade.

But it really depends on you.

Do you play for fun or competition? For fun, sure! It's a really awesome looking ship with fun combinations. For competition? Only if you have a list in mind for the ship or its upgrades (there are some good ones in there, like General Hux), and, even then, I don't think the ship is really there yet for the competitive scene.

I so far only play for fun, yet to get into competition due to the lack of organized play options in my area. The model itself looks great, plus 4 attack dice are really nice. Kylo and hux are great cards as well. So I am leaning towards buying but still don't know what to fly with it.

Kylo Ren(50) [Kylo Ren(34), Veteran Instincts(1), Recon Specialist(3), Experimental Interface(3), Weapons Guidance(2), Collision Detector(0), Sensor Cluster(2), General Hux(5)]

Captain Oicunn(49) [Captain Oicunn(42), Determination(1), Intelligence Agent(1), Rebel Captive(3), Tactical Jammers(1), Inspiring Recruit(1)]

Fun factor is through the roof on this list. Competitive... Probably not. But rolling up with 3 focus on the batwing, and 1 focus w/ devotion on Oicunn regardless of bump is a magical moment.

If you really practiced with it, I'm sure you could make some waves with the Shuttle and aces, making use out of a number of combinations. Stridan's ability is a really solid boost, and there are a lot of crew he helps to increase their range. I don't think it would be a bad list to cut your teeth on.

If you were serious about going competitive, and wanted to jump into a competitive list, however, I'd pass. Scum is easily the top faction at the moment (this will eventually change, but not with anything on the current horizon), so I'd personally recommend, as an Imperial-only player, that folks looking to be competitive start there.

BUT. If you love Imperials and the ship, give it a shot! There are a number of cheap ships for Imperials to back the shuttle up -- Inquisitor, Strikers, the upcoming Aggressor, Omega Leader, etc...

Very difficult to utilise especially after palpatine got errataed

It is absolutely hilarious if you roll "riding dirty" Ren

Thats

Kylo Ren

*Collision Detector

*expert handling

* pattern analzyer

*palpatine

Basically, do a green and br expertly and PA removes the stress

Col detector lets you roll onto obstacles without consequence since those only trigger when executing a manuever (cant shoot on rock, though)

used to fly with x7 delta and juke relay omega L

Now, though, two ps 5 aggressors with TLT and lightweight frame would be better if only they could trigger kylos ability at all

Maybe strikers?

Advamced sensors Hux on Major Striden is also nice, but expensive

For Upsilon, I want to try this load out https://geordanr.github.io/xwing/?f=Galactic Empire&d=v4!s!226:20,36,38,183,147,-1:-1:-1:;99:10,-1,183,94,-1,-1:-1:-1:&sn=Shuttle attack&obs=

Kylo Ren with Expose will roll 5 dice! He is equipped with Recon Specialist, Weapons Guidance, Fire Control System, and Systems Officer.

His squadmate is Rear Admiral Chiraneau, VT-49 Decimator with Squad Leader, Systems Officer, and Mara Jade.

Kylo moves, does either Focus or Expose. Admiral does a green move (giving Kylo a free TL via Systems Officer), and gives Kylo a second action via Squad Leader that gives him the focus/Expose he didn't do.

Kylo now rolls 5 dice with 2 Focus tokens and a target lock. One of the two Focus tokens is reserved for the Weapons Guidance. With all of the dice mods, Kylo is pretty much guaranteed to hit anyone at range, the question is how much damage they take.

http://xwingcalculator.x10host.com/diceuip.html

Using the above dice calculator, your opponent with 3 agility at range (4 dice) and an evade token only has a 2.5% chance of avoiding damage. 2.5 damage average. More if they have less than 3 dice and can't evade.

And if you get into range against their 2 agility dice it's 4.6 expected damage.

The big drawback is maneuverability, so you'll most likely shoot a lot from range (or not at all), but that's what the Decimator is for, to cover the backside as he'll get free TLs (from Kylo's Systems Officer) and can give himself the focus if Kylo can't shoot at anything.

Haven't tried it, but it seems like a lot of fun. The plus side is with so much dice modding on your attacks, even an agility 3 ship at range and obstructed, rolling 5 def dice with a focus still only has a 10% chance of avoiding damage, with 1.8 expected. That's pretty hot!

5 hours ago, ficklegreendice said:

Col detector lets you roll onto obstacles without consequence since those only trigger when executing a manuever (cant shoot on rock, though)

Whut

yup

obstacle stuff only triggers while you overlap them while executing a maneuver, according to the rule's reference

Now, you normally can't barrel-roll/boost onto obstacles (also in the rules) but collision detector gets around that

The FAQ specifically states that whilst movement from a Tractor beam isn't an action or maneuver, when being barrel rolled onto an obstacle you suffer all the normal effects of the obstacle.

Surely it's the same thing here, except you wouldn't roll for damage on a debris if you have CD?

5 hours ago, Goseki1 said:

The FAQ specifically states that whilst movement from a Tractor beam isn't an action or maneuver, when being barrel rolled onto an obstacle you suffer all the normal effects of the obstacle.

Surely it's the same thing here, except you wouldn't roll for damage on a debris if you have CD?

nope

because that's specifically in the case of tractor beam (which isn't an action like an actual barrel-roll would be)

see, it has to specify that you suffer all the normal effects of the obstacles because you would not with a normal boost/barrel-roll action (with collision detector, otherwise you cannot boost/roll onto obstacles at all)

I've used the shuttle a bunch. Pattern Analyzer & or Engine upgrade make it very mobile. 4-5 dice attacks and it's extra hull/shield make it much better than Lambda. Kylo Ren shuttle or Major Striden used wisely really help Whsiper Defender or Aces. The coordinate action is pretty great for your action economy. Palping the shuttle is just as good as a Lambda IMO. I love the shuttle. There is a great build with Kylo Ren shuttle that won a store championship in Lansing Michigan recently.

I would definitely suggest getting one!

2 hours ago, ficklegreendice said:

nope

because that's specifically in the case of tractor beam (which isn't an action like an actual barrel-roll would be)

see, it has to specify that you suffer all the normal effects of the obstacles because you would not with a normal boost/barrel-roll action (with collision detector, otherwise you cannot boost/roll onto obstacles at all)

I suppose as you saw, RAW it makes sense. I have to say I've not seen anyone play it like that though! I think the split sentences don't help there (though I get why it's written thst way)

There are occasional rules artefacts like that. It's like flying a striker through a debris cloud - time it right, and you go through the cloud with your aileron move, get stressed, do a normal move, de-stress, and apparently "ignore" the debris' effect.

The upsilon shuttle is good. Thoughts:

• What it is not is a pure support ship. Bare bones, it's 30% of your squad. With palpatine aboard (or some other similar combination of officer crew, named pilots, and support tech) it's more likely 40-50% of the squad. You have to get mileage out of it as a pure combatant with its 4-dice guns as well to get your money's worth
• Aside the lack of a K-turn, its dial is actually really good - especially with Pattern Analyser, Co-ordinate between multiple shuttles, Electronic Baffles and so on to let you actually use the red bits of your dial.
• Co-ordinate is an amazing ability. Pair up with a couple of aces, and the free action plus free target lock is awesome. (A friend's been using Stridan supporting the Inquisitor, so he gets even more mileage out of the target lock)

I'm currently running the 2 named SF's with a Starkiller pilot with Pattern Analyzer and FCS. I generally try and put the shuttle in the middle of the board and the SF's to one side.

I slow roll the shuttle and go fast with the SF's. If they go for the shuttle a smash them with the SF's. If try go for the SF's I plod behind three with the shuttle and smash them up.

It's been very successful except for the few times where the shuttle is the last ship standing and can't turn to get a shot off.

17 hours ago, Luner_Eclipse said:

I so far only play for fun, yet to get into competition due to the lack of organized play options in my area. The model itself looks great, plus 4 attack dice are really nice. Kylo and hux are great cards as well. So I am leaning towards buying but still don't know what to fly with it.

Hux feels like he should be fantastic, but from testing, he really, really isn't. In practice, I've found two problems:

1: Imps don't have a crew ship with good enough green to justify his cost. If you want to tote him in anything that's not a Lambda (or a PS1 Phantom, I suppose), you're going to be paying more than a third of your list to do it, and you need that third to be contributing meaningfully which is a real challenge. The Upsilon can hit hard, but keeping it in the fight only doing 1 straights and 2 banks is tough. The firespray is way overpriced, and the Lambda just can't keep up. The Deci is probably the best option, but Decis really want to be arc dodging mostly, and going 2 banks and not boosting doesn't help there.

2: If you give FD to anything other than a 2 die ship (or something with an on-hit effect like Tractor Beam or Ion Cannon), it usually ends up doing nothing, at best: First, you have to roll an eyeball at all, which is by no means guaranteed. Second, you have to still have and be able to spend the token, which if you have to spend it to not die, or get HotCoPed or Wes-ed or Carnored or Teroched or etc, you might not be able to spend. If you satisfy both of those conditions AND if you roll all hits (after spending your fanatical focus, of course), they have to roll at least an equal number of evades for it to be meaningful, which happens relatively rarely these days, and often they can just not spend a token, that they otherwise could have blocked that last hit with. If you roll all hits and they roll fewer evades than your hits, they just block all the blockable ones, and FD did nothing. If you roll a mix of hits and crits, FD just lets them evade a crit BEFORE your unblockable hit, so it quite likely just means they take fewer crits than they otherwise would have, which is usually a negative outcome.

He's just not very good, which is a shame, because I really want him to be good. If he could have fit in the bomber shuttle he might have been worth taking there instead of a Fleet Officer. But as it is, the cost to take and use him is way too high for the benefit he offers.

Using him in an Ups or Deci (potentially with Swarm Leader) to buff a TIE Swarm is not a terrible plan, except that TIE swarms are terrible at the moment.

So I've seen this list in a few Store Championships and it's performed phenomenally going undefeated in 1 SC while winning it and got 2nd in the immediate weekend after in another one. Now I can tell you'll have to put time into it and maybe it might not fit your "playstyle," BUT I think it's worth trying.

Whipser w/ VI, FCS, Adv Cloaking Device, Agent Kallus - 41

Kylo Ren w/ A Score to Settle, Collision Detector, Palpatine, Kylo Ren's Shuttle - 44

Wampa - 14

Total: 99 pts

There are obvious 2 targets for your opponent to go after being Kylo Ren and Whisper. If you shoot at Kylo, you get the condition card and with Kylo at PS 6, he's in a great spot in this meta (which is mainly 2-3 ships above PS8) to be able to shoot back with potentially A Score to Settle crit and maybe a Palp crit. If your opponent goes after Whisper, they're leaving Kylo alone with his 4 attack dice carrying Palpatine and stressing you from his title (which is very underrated). Speaking of underrated, the Coordinate action used to give Whisper an evade token or barrel roll before it moves is awesome. Finally if they really want to kill Wampa, go ahead and expend your time and resources to go after him, he's only 14 pts. Although he can be a nuisance when Kylo Ren might not have a shot and you could Palp for a Crit with him and you can decide to use Wampa's ability after the compare results step where you can see if the Crit will go through or if you should just cancel and deal a face down damage card.

Again, I give full credit to Ethan in the Michigan Store Championships for coming up with this list and explaining it's great interactions within the list.

Unfortunately, the Upsilon Shuttle is really hard to use well. Its like an advanced version of the Lambda shuttle (and people struggle to use that well). Its also relatively expensive, and once you start adding a few upgrades on it, suddenly you have no points left to take any other good ships. So, for that reason, its also difficult to build good lists around it.

So if you are new to the game, the Upsilon is going to be very hard to feel like its a good ship (although in truth, it can be a good ship if you are willing to put the substantial time and effort into learning how to get good use out of it). Its not like any other ship (except for the Lambda), so you can't really use existing knowledge gained from flying other ships to help with getting good at it.

Still, I think its worth investing in. I have one, and admittedly, I haven't really used it at any 'serious' competitive events yet, but I have taken it to a couple small tournaments. I have come to the conclusion that there are two upgrades that you absolutely need to put on it (well, one or the other----you don't need both at once!). Collision Detector and Engine Upgrade. If you don't have one of these, you are not going to get good value out of the Upsilon. So its good to keep this in mind when building your list!

Here are a few examples of lists that I've used the Upsilon in. I'm going to list them from 'easy' to 'hard' (in terms of the amount of practice required to get the hang of flying the list effectively):

1) Sigma Starkiller Inq

Starkiller Base Pilot w/ FCS & engine = 36

Sigma Pilot w/ FCS, stygium particle accelerator & rebel captive = 32

Inquisitor w/ push the limit, V-1 & autothrusters = 31

99

This is a relatively simple list. Your shuttle and phantom represent two big, dangerous guns. Obviously, your opponent wants to kill the phantom first, since its easiest to do. Knowing that, you want to fly your phantom carefully to keep it out of harms way. The upsilon's coordinate action is huge here: use it to protect your phantom (either with a bonus token or barrel to get out of enemy arcs). Alternatively, your Upsilon can be a big mean blocker----this can really upset your opponent's planning and allow your phantom to hit extra hard (against a tokenless target). Thanks to boost, your Upsilon can afford to block because turning it around isn't too hard if you know what you're doing (this is one area where lots of practice will pay off!). Just flank with Inquisitor. Its what he does best.

2) Palp Stridan

Stridan w/ baffle & palpatine = 41

Inquisitor w/ PTL, V-1 & AT = 31

Sabaac w/ VI, AA & LWF = 25

97

You have 3 points to play with here. The title on the Upsilon is probably best, since it gives you a 1 pt initiative bid. Another decent option is Targeting Synchronizer. This list starts to get really fancy with maneuvering. You REALLY need to practice with it in order to get the most out of it. I mean A LOT! Stridan's ability + Coordinate action give you HUGE positional flexibility. I can't state enough how crazy Inquisitor OR Sabaac become with the ability to throw in a bonus action before their turn in the Activation Phase. However! In order for Inquisitor to benefit from this, he cannot be stressed, so generally speaking, you won't be able to use it on him later in the game. But early on, it can be very helpful, because you can throw Inqy in somewhat aggressively as bait, and then use some crazy moves to get him the hell out of trouble. And best of all, if you use Push the Limit off the Coordinate action, Inquisitor will get 3 actions in total that turn AND end the turn with no stress token (provided you put a green move on his dial). Pure Sabaac is also capable of all kinds of shenanigans thanks to the combo of Coordinate to Barrel roll, then use Adaptive Ailerons when its Sabaac's turn to move.

3) Kylo's Great Denial

Kylo Ren w/ Score to Settle, advanced sensors, engine uprade & targeting synchronizer = 44

Carnor Jax w/ Push the Limit & autothrusters = 31

Pure Sabaac w/ VI, AA & LWF = 25

100

This is an ultimate glass cannon list. Make one mistake, and you lose! For that reason, you have to be extremely comfortable flying these ships and outguessing your opponent's moves. Its really a nasty list thanks to the combo of Jax denying tokens and Kylo & Sabaac throwing lots of red dice. Advanced sensors is really handy on a PS 6 large ship. Kylo always gets his action (and don't forget Coordinate! You have the exact same crazy movement options as the previous list!). With engine upgrade, Kylo is never really out of the fight for long, so can your opponent afford to go after his squishier wingmates? If you fly it right, you should be able to beat most things in the meta. But if you screw up, you will lose pretty hard...

if you have the TIE interceptor and TIE advanced, this list is very good for making the most of vader's ability

Do i have to choose?

vader(29) w/ PTL(3), X1(0), ATC(5-4=1) 33

soontir fel(27) w/ PTL(3), royal guard(0) AT(2), stealth device(3) 35

dormitz(31) w/ collision detector(0), hyperwave comm scanner(1) 32

put fel up front and go fast, while racking up 3 actions per turn. give the coordinate to fel for barrel roll/boost, and focus and evade. when vader is in range for TL, give him coordinate. at that point, he can barrel roll, TL, focus, AND evade. dormitz is just dealing damage to any enemy in range.

HCS is good because you have a real chance to use it if fel is off of dormitz

Just wanted to give an update on the list I posted above. I tried it at a small casual tournament and went 2w 1l. Made some changes based off the performance. The only list I lost to contained the dreaded dengar so I wasn't too beat up about it. Here is the list with adjustments:

Kylo Ren(50) [Kylo Ren(34), Recon Specialist(3), Experimental Interface(3), Fleet Officer(3), Calculation(1), Weapons Guidance(2), Collision Detector(0), Sensor Cluster(2), Kylo Ren's Shuttle(2)]

Captain Oicunn(50) [Captain Oicunn(42), Determination(1), Rebel Captive(3), Tactical Jammers(1), Systems Officer(2), Inspiring Recruit(1)]

A lot of time I ran Kylo behind Oicunn and ended up face to butt bumping. So I added the systems officer. To allow kylo to at least get a target lock as a dice modifier. But either way it was pretty effective. Oicunn would bump for a dmg and then kylo would unload five dice into the opponent with a lot of potential for modification. The list was an absolute blast to play. Tac Jammer was pivotal in every match I played as well, either forcing them to target Oicunn or ensuring kylo lasts enough rounds to lay down the damage.

The idea is to run Oicunn in front, focus with kylo giving him 2 focus, then experimental interface the fleet officer to give kylo a 3rd and Oicunn an eyeball. . Then unload with you dice and use calculation/weapons guidance to modify. Oicunns inspiring recruit allows you to the shed stress and go again

On 21/06/2017 at 11:25 PM, ficklegreendice said:

yup

obstacle stuff only triggers while you overlap them while executing a maneuver, according to the rule's reference

Now, you normally can't barrel-roll/boost onto obstacles (also in the rules) but collision detector gets around that

Hey, @ficklegreendice this isn't correct anymore as per the faw, right?

The Upsilon hasn't found a competitive list yet, it's bubbling just under. The ship itself is pretty good and the Co-ordinate action is amazing, it's just lacking a really solid crew option to mod the dice like Rebels and Scum have (especially considering how often your action will be to co-ordinate for a buddy). 36pts for a Starkiller Pilot with Electronic Baffle, Rec Spec and Weapon Guidance gives you a very solid brawler of a ship.

If you're talking hardcore competitive play? No. If you're talking local level or kitchen table, you can certainly give it a go. And keep an eye out for any strong new Imperial crew options that will unlock the missing potential.

I run it as a support for my Decimator, using Co-ordinate to help the Decimator both boost & Kylo Ren, or have fully modded attacks.

• Rear Admiral Chiraneau - Veteran Instincts, Kylo Ren, Rebel Captive, Gunner, Engine Upgrade
• Major Stridan - Agent Kallus, Collision Detector, Pattern Analyser, Kylo Ren's Shuttle

3 hours ago, Goseki1 said:

Hey, @ficklegreendice this isn't correct anymore as per the faw, right?

Yeah, they added that to clarify what happens when you get moved onto an obstacle via a Tractor Beam token -- before, it did nothing because that movement isn't considered a maneuver.

But this does expand to anything that causes the overlap, sans maneuver.

5 hours ago, SOTL said:

The Upsilon hasn't found a competitive list yet, it's bubbling just under. The ship itself is pretty good and the Co-ordinate action is amazing, it's just lacking a really solid crew option to mod the dice like Rebels and Scum have (especially considering how often your action will be to co-ordinate for a buddy). 36pts for a Starkiller Pilot with Electronic Baffle, Rec Spec and Weapon Guidance gives you a very solid brawler of a ship.

If you're talking hardcore competitive play? No. If you're talking local level or kitchen table, you can certainly give it a go. And keep an eye out for any strong new Imperial crew options that will unlock the missing potential.

I run it as a support for my Decimator, using Co-ordinate to help the Decimator both boost & Kylo Ren, or have fully modded attacks.

• Rear Admiral Chiraneau - Veteran Instincts, Kylo Ren, Rebel Captive, Gunner, Engine Upgrade
• Major Stridan - Agent Kallus, Collision Detector, Pattern Analyser, Kylo Ren's Shuttle

The Upsilon is so close to being amazing, but I think you're definitely right in that it's just missing that one perfect crew. I think something that allows repositioning when stressed or something, thst isn't overly expensive would really help.

I love expert handling /inspiring recruit /pattern analyser on Kylo but gosh it's expensive.

So, nobody here mentioned Swarm Leader Kylo Ren that did pretty well at the Kashyyyk System Open?

Kylo Ren (Swarm Leader, Fire-Control System, Kylo Ren's Shuttle, Pattern Analyzer)
Delta Sq. Pilot (TIE/x7)
Delta Sq. Pilot (TIE/x7)
99 points

Or something like that. It's a relatively easy way to boost the shuttle to 6 attack dice (7 dice at range 1). Of course, it's tougher now that TIE/x7's can be blocked to prevent the evade token. And it's not a cheap squad either, yikes. I just noticed you need to spend $40 for Upsilon, $30 on Imperial Veterans, $30 on two TIE defender packs, $15 on TIE striker, and $15 on B-wing/TIE phantom for Fire-Control System. $130 squad, baby!

Another build I personally like is Rage Ren:

Kylo Ren (Rage, Pattern Analyzer, Inspiring Recruit)

You perform a green maneuver, Pattern Analyzer to do check pilot stress after the perform action step, perform a Rage action, check that you did a green maneuver, use Inspiring Recruit to remove both stress tokens. Now you have an open dial for next round, perhaps even doing a Stationary maneuver and Rage, which leaves you with 3 stress tokens, but at least it gets you another shot before you have to turn around. I mostly run this with 4x Epsilon Sq. Pilots just for theme, but it's not very strong against top meta squads. Definitely strong against typical game night squads.