55 minutes ago, WHW said:

basically, he calls her Hitomi-kun because he respects her as a warrior and doesn't think about her in terms of cute girlish girl.

And with that, I'm off to bed, because i can barely see anymore.

That may indeed be what they intended, but that's not how modern day Japanese works. It's one of the reasons I asked. -chan is used for babies of either sex (I'll take your word about the furry animals, I never heard that one while I was over there) and -kun is used for boys and up, while girls stay -chan. Either of those suffixes denotes familiarity, and is used on those who are lower than you is position (no one would ever call their father -kun, for instance.) Barring the status markers, it's closer to Miss/Mr. when used for adults - gendered, but without further implication. If they're changing that, I hope they make it clear, or better yet, invent some new words rather than trying to import over Japanese.

1 minute ago, agarrett said:

That may indeed be what they intended, but that's not how modern day Japanese works. It's one of the reasons I asked. -chan is used for babies of either sex (I'll take your word about the furry animals, I never heard that one while I was over there) and -kun is used for boys and up, while girls stay -chan. Either of those suffixes denotes familiarity, and is used on those who are lower than you is position (no one would ever call their father -kun, for instance.) Barring the status markers, it's closer to Miss/Mr. when used for adults - gendered, but without further implication. If they're changing that, I hope they make it clear, or better yet, invent some new words rather than trying to import over Japanese.

It isn't unheard of for adult women to be called -kun in modern Japan. It definitely has a masculine connotation -- but Hitomi is a bushi, so.

3 minutes ago, Kinzen said:

It isn't unheard of for adult women to be called -kun in modern Japan. It definitely has a masculine connotation -- but Hitomi is a bushi, so.

That doesn't mean it really has a masculine connotation in Rokugan. Yet.

Or it's just an oversight.

37 minutes ago, Kubernes said:

That doesn't mean it really has a masculine connotation in Rokugan. Yet.

Or it's just an oversight.

"~ kun （～君）"
is used to address men who are younger or the same age as the speaker. A male might address female inferiors by "~ kun," usually in schools or companies. It can be attached to both surnames and given names. It is less polite than "~ san." It isn't used between women or when addressing one's superiors.

This was found with a quick google search. I'm no pro on honorifics, but there are some situations where the masculine becomes default in business situations around the globe. Since Hitomi is serving under Masashige in a military order I think it qualifies by the definition I found at least.

----

On a side note - I'm really torn on these borrowed words. On one hand they can help paint the foreign setting, on the other hand it can come off as sort of like "weeb" when the words are borrowed carelessly....

I was thinking about this the other day and sorta came to my own conclusion that I would prefer to have the splashed japanese (or other foreign terms) used only when there isn't an appropriate translation (such as honorifics, city names, people's names) or when they are expressions (such as hajime! or hayaku! or Hai!)

8 minutes ago, shosuko said:

"~ kun （～君）"
is used to address men who are younger or the same age as the speaker. A male might address female inferiors by "~ kun," usually in schools or companies. It can be attached to both surnames and given names. It is less polite than "~ san." It isn't used between women or when addressing one's superiors.

This was found with a quick google search. I'm no pro on honorifics, but there are some situations where the masculine becomes default in a business situation around the globe. Since Hitomi is serving under Masashige in a military order I think it qualifies by the definition I found at least.

I like that they added "-ue" to L5R. A 'lord specific' honorific will be quite useful should i get to play/run a new campaign.

IF the Dragon and Crab stories are connected. (As I believe they are)

IF Hitomi vs. Yakamo is still a thing (and poor Satsu didn't choke to death on a piece of goat)

I'm pretty excited to see where this storyline goes. I have this image of the 2 of them on the Wall trying to kill oni , and not each other.

This is doubly fun and surprising because, if you had asked me yesterday, I would have paid cash money to drop the feud storyline.

What a difference a day makes, yeah?

40 minutes ago, Kuni Katsuyoshi said:

IF the Dragon and Crab stories are connected. (As I believe they are)

IF Hitomi vs. Yakamo is still a thing (and poor Satsu didn't choke to death on a piece of goat)

I'm pretty excited to see where this storyline goes. I have this image of the 2 of them on the Wall trying to kill oni , and not each other.

This is doubly fun and surprising because, if you had asked me yesterday, I would have paid cash money to drop the feud storyline.

What a difference a day makes, yeah?

It could be awesome if Yakamo and Hitomi have a sort of gimli / legolas fued over killing goblins at the wall lol. Maybe Yakamo DID kill Satsu, but Hitomi is ordered by Yokuni to stand down, and SHE DOES!!! omg

(Sung to the tune of "Buddy Holly", by Weezer)

What's with Hitomi, is she a girl?

She's got black rocks on her face.

Boy, did she ever hate that Crab Guy,

The one with the Hand of Jade.

Woo-hoo, now the plan unfurls,

Woo-hoo, Lord Moon's gotta die!

Woo-ooo, She's gotta kill him in time...

Ooo-wee-ooo, Lady Hitomi's now a Kami,
Ooo-wee-ooo, that Lord Sun is such a bore,

I don't care what they say about her anyway,

She was my champion.

12 minutes ago, shosuko said:

It could be awesome if Yakamo and Hitomi have a sort of gimli / legolas fued over killing goblins at the wall lol. Maybe Yakamo DID kill Satsu, but Hitomi is ordered by Yokuni to stand down, and SHE DOES!!! omg

In the original story, Hitomi did end up with a begrudging respect for Yakamo by the time he was trying to arrange O-Ushi's (his sister) marriage.

Personally, I liked that the 'mythology' of the Sun and Moon changed from the original "Lord Moon - Onnatangu - is chasing Lady Sun - Amaterasu - across the sky forever" to "Lady Moon - Hitomi - and Lord Sun - Yakamo - are circling each other until the end of time, at which point they'll have their final duel"

28 minutes ago, Togashi Gao Shan said:

(Sung to the tune of "Buddy Holly", by Weezer)

What's with Hitomi, is she a girl?

She's got black rocks on her face.

Boy, did she ever hate that Crab Guy,

The one with the Hand of Jade.

Woo-hoo, now the plan unfurls,

Woo-hoo, Lord Moon's gotta die!

Woo-ooo, She's gotta kill him in time...

Ooo-wee-ooo, Lady Hitomi's now a Kami,
Ooo-wee-ooo, that Lord Sun is such a bore,

I don't care what they say about her anyway,

She was my champion.

Props for the weezer reference

Do one for 'Hash pipe' I'll be suitably impressed

33 minutes ago, shosuko said:

It could be awesome if Yakamo and Hitomi have a sort of gimli / legolas fued over killing goblins at the wall lol. Maybe Yakamo DID kill Satsu, but Hitomi is ordered by Yokuni to stand down, and SHE DOES!!! omg

It took just one sentence in the fiction, to potentially put her on a better path. If she can indeed ' put duty before anger'.

I'm happier about all this than I expected. We'll have to see what Yakamo bring into the equation.

All I want to know is whether they're going with the tamashi rubbish. Just tell me now so I can get invested or not. So far this is a poor version of Yokuni in my and a few other old players opinions.

double

10 minutes ago, Mirumoto Kojiro said:

So far this is a poor version of Yokuni in my and a few other old players opinions.

and all from a single fiction where he barely speaks or acts. You old fans are really impossible to please...

Glad to see my Dragons finally get a fiction! Already itching to see the cards of the characters from this week's fiction!

2 minutes ago, franzvong said:

and all from a single fiction where he barely speaks or acts. You old fans are really impossible to please...

Then you don't understand what he was. This contains plenty to be concerned about.

I mean, if you like it, great. I'm not judging you. But I'm here for the old Dragon clan I supported loyally for years. I supported the game because I supported the clan. I left the game (as did others here) because of what was done to the clan, especially Togashi. If this is going the Wick way, I'm keen. If it's going the Wulf way, I'm out. My time and money are limited these days and I'd prefer not to waste it.

9 minutes ago, Mirumoto Kojiro said:

Then you don't understand what he was. This contains plenty to be concerned about.

No I don't know and honestly don't care who he was in an old game. In the new, under that mask there could be a red-faced drunkard with seizures due to bad sake hang-over, for all that we know.

And deciding if invest money in a card game based on a single character of the back story sounds extremely awkward to me. It's your money so you are obviously free to spend it as you wish, but shouldn't you try the game first? Maybe you will hate dragon's mechanics and end up playing Crane

7 hours ago, WHW said:

A thing I missed during my initial note-taking:
It's very easy to miss, but one of the Masashige's thought invoked pretty powerful reaction and realization in me. Which one?
The one where he notes that he never ever saw an ocean, not once in his life.

When it hit me, wow.

That's an excellent observation. !!!!!!

Which again, not wishing to derail this thread, we really need a 'true' map of Rokugan, most preferably with a legend and distance bar.

Sorry, but I'm positive others have the same thoughts here.

19 minutes ago, franzvong said:

Nowhere in the text it's stated that Toturi is a genious, or a master tactician/strategist. It's actually depicted as an indecisive leader, with clear knowledge and understanding of war but poor power/strenght in leading men. He clearly thinks too much and acts "by the book", wanting to assess every single possible path before taking any decision, and failing twice in doing so due to the amount of options in front of him. He's the champion only thanks to succession laws, and he does not even seem to want the position at all

Well..it might not be in the story but when they build up him up with the "No army can withstand the stratagem of the Lion's brilliant new general,Akodo Toturi" in the launch article, I expected it to be such.

He was supposed to be champion originally by the law of succession but the Lion don't want him as champion..only by his YOUNGER brother's death did he became champion.

also, when a family daimyo risks lives to seek your counsel and help with all the Clan's problem which is supposed to be Yokuni's to solve really..and he gives you some cryptic line, makes him a ****** for me.

which makes it a good character I can hate more.

so yeah, Yokuni is a ********, Hitomi's control of his temper, Masashige's ( gonna die in this campaign ) concern from the smallest to the biggest problem of the Clan, Mitsu's abs and Kazue jedi mind trick, Unicorn and Phoenix clan drops without any bloodshed. Good work, Kinzen!

14 minutes ago, franzvong said:

No I don't know and honestly don't care who he was in an old game. In the new, under that mask there could be a red-faced drunkard with seizures due to bad sake hang-over, for all that we know.

And deciding if invest money in a card game based on a single character of the back story sounds extremely awkward to me. It's your money so you are obviously free to spend it as you wish, but shouldn't you try the game first? Maybe you will hate dragon's mechanics and end up playing Crane

You clearly understate the loyalty some of us had in the old days. I will never play Crane, or any other clan. I'm a Dragon.

What you have to understand is that there were basically two old Dragon clans- the one by the original creator and the one they were retconned into. I'm interested in supporting my old clan. I've no interest in supporting the mess they were made into. But it all flows from the champion. I'm not going to commit my time and money to the petty joke they became.

Lastly, who he is under that mask is *incredibly* important. Monumentally important. To call him a pivotal figure would be a grotesque understatement.

7 minutes ago, LordBlunt said:

That's an excellent observation. !!!!!!

Which again, not wishing to derail this thread, we really need a 'true' map of Rokugan, most preferably with a legend and distance bar.

Sorry, but I'm positive others have the same thoughts here.

Atlas of Rokugan has the best map. No distance bar however. The size was always supposed to be subjective.

18 minutes ago, Mirumoto Kojiro said:

I'm not going to commit my time and money to the petty joke they became.

Lastly, who he is under that mask is *incredibly* important. Monumentally important. To call him a pivotal figure would be a grotesque understatement.

My point is that you (and many old players on these forums) are judging the story mixing new and old lore as if they were the same thing.

It may be that who is under the mask is really important for the future of Rokugan, but so far he is just another champion. Will he be whatever he was in the old lore? Who knows, maybe yes, maybe no, but I doubt FFG will tell you now. You don't decide to buy a book just depending on the main character dying or not in the end (I suppose), so why should it make a difference what will Yokuni do or not do in this version of L5R story?

If the story will be fun, and the characters interesting, however it will go it will be a good ride.

On a side note, I also don't get why you are all so worried with FFG's narrative if so far I have read mostly negative comments on the AEG one. If the old story sucked, isn't there a good chance that this one will be at least slightly better?

4 hours ago, Kubernes said:

That doesn't mean it really has a masculine connotation in Rokugan. Yet.

Edit: I see the point you are making now. Ignore this comment.

Since the topic of Togashi Yokuni's divinity has been sort of brought up, let me quote what Wick had to say regarding Togashi's stats:

"Because Yokuni is an actual dragon, giving him Rings and Traits is ridiculous. Yokuni operates under the same rules found in Appendix One (see pg 82); he cannot be confronted in any way that humans understand. He can take any shape he wishes and he is immune to the effects of mundane weapons. He can cast any spell without the scroll and without casting time or concentration to maintain its effect. Attempting to engage him in combat is an exercise in futility; he comes and goes with the speed of the wind and the few times he has been provoked to violence have been as terrifying as they were brief.
In short, Yokuni gets what Yokuni wants. (...)
Yokuni is one thousand years old. He's the son of Amaterasu. He's a dragon.
In other worlds, Yokuni is one of the most powerful entities in the world. He knows your every thought, hears a whisper a thousand miles away, and quite possibly knows how the world is going to end. He doesn't take lip from anyone. Every time he appears in Rokugan, he is accompanied by storms, earthquakes and other sorts of natural phenomenon [sic]."

As such having Yokuni as some sort of 5/5 character (if even that, we'll find out soon) will feel kinda awkward, but - to be fair to FFG - Yokuni was also present in the "classic" L5R.

I'm still hoping this time Yokuni is not Togashi himself but a mere mortal man.

And since I already registered...

4 hours ago, agarrett said:

That may indeed be what they intended, but that's not how modern day Japanese works. It's one of the reasons I asked. -chan is used for babies of either sex (I'll take your word about the furry animals, I never heard that one while I was over there) and -kun is used for boys and up, while girls stay -chan. Either of those suffixes denotes familiarity, and is used on those who are lower than you is position (no one would ever call their father -kun, for instance.) Barring the status markers, it's closer to Miss/Mr. when used for adults - gendered, but without further implication. If they're changing that, I hope they make it clear, or better yet, invent some new words rather than trying to import over Japanese.

Using -chan to address a younger woman (or one of roughly the same age I suppose) is relatively common in non-formal, private environments, but generally not something you'd hear in a Japanese office (for example). Superiors will address their female subordinates using -kun. It doesn't have a masculine connotation. Just about the only time you could possibly hear -chan is when some OL gets addressed, and it's very patronizing: "OL-chan, go pour us some tea". As such it stands to reason that Masashige would address Hitomi using Hitomi-kun, since he can't exactly call her "Mirumoto".

14 hours ago, Suzume Tomonori said:

I think one could make a distinction between the saying of a prayer and the giving of a speech intended to sway others, but regardless of where you draw the line it appears the Phoenix aren't big on personal freedom (but who is in Rokugan?)

The Spider.