Probably a newbie question but couldn't find any direct answer. If 2 unfriendly squadrons overlap the same obstacle and they touch each other:

1) are they engaged?

2) if one of them attacks the other, is the attack obstructed?

Technically speaking since the line drawn between the closest points of both bases does not pass through any visible part of the obstacle I'd guess the answer would be no, but if anything, my limited experience with Armada has taught me that the obvious/reasonable answer is not always the correct one... :/

I'd appreciate some input from players more experienced than myself.

1) They are not engaged

2) The attack is obstructed

RRG Page 8

• If line of sight is drawn over an obstacle, the attack is obstructed even if the bases of the attacker and defender are touching.

40 minutes ago, Democratus said:

1) They are not engaged

2) The attack is obstructed

RRG Page 8

• If line of sight is drawn over an obstacle, the attack is obstructed even if the bases of the attacker and defender are touching.

Thanks for the answer. Hate to nitpick but:

1) Why do you believe they are not engaged?

2) I can understand how ships can be touching and still LoS is drawn over obstacle but how is it possible in case of squadrons, where line of sight is literally the line between the closest point of their bases - and they are touching?

In this case the rules don't differentiate between squadrons and ships. Even if the bases between attacker and defender are touching, they are obstructed.

From RRG page 6

• If line of sight between two squadrons is obstructed, those squadrons are not engaged even if at distance 1 of each other, though they can still attack each other.

So we have the first rule I quoted, which states that they are obstructed even if touching. And now this rule which states that squadrons are not engaged if LOS is obstructed.

37 minutes ago, Lightrock said:

Thanks for the answer. Hate to nitpick but:

1) Why do you believe they are not engaged?

2) I can understand how ships can be touching and still LoS is drawn over obstacle but how is it possible in case of squadrons, where line of sight is literally the line between the closest point of their bases - and they are touching?

Read the rules @Democratus quoted.

It's spelled out there.

2 hours ago, Lightrock said:

1) Why... ?

2) How is it possible that... ?

1) Because the rules explicitly say so.

2) Because the rules explicitly say so.

EDIT: Sorry, I didn't mean to be too snarky. It's been a rough day.

If you want to get SUPER technical, the two squadrons aren't really touching.

The electromagnetic force keeps them from coming into contact with each other by several plank lengths.

1 hour ago, Democratus said:

If you want to get SUPER technical, the two squadrons aren't really touching.

The electromagnetic force keeps them from coming into contact with each other by several plank lengths.

Maybe if they were made of dark matter...

20 hours ago, Democratus said:

In this case the rules don't differentiate between squadrons and ships. Even if the bases between attacker and defender are touching, they are obstructed.

From RRG page 6

• If line of sight between two squadrons is obstructed, those squadrons are not engaged even if at distance 1 of each other, though they can still attack each other.

So we have the first rule I quoted, which states that they are obstructed even if touching. And now this rule which states that squadrons are not engaged if LOS is obstructed.

Maybe I didn't express myself clear enough. I don't dispute any of the rules. If they say that if a line of sight is drawn over the obstacle, the attack is obstructed even if the bases touch each other, it is so. And if they say that obstructed attack means no engagement, I'm not going to dispute that either.

However, the prerequisite is that line of sight needs to be drawn over the obstacle and it is not at all clear that this is indeed the case. It's not a matter of being "super technical" about anything. Literally speaking LoS is simply NOT drawn over the obstacle if two squadrons touch one another as there's not a single milimeter between them where any part of the obstacle would be visible. I assume that there's some sort of community consensus that attacks on obstacles are always obstructed no matter what but that's all it is - community consensus. It's sadly yet another case of Armada's rules being unclear or unintuitive. And this time even reading the rules verbatim does not give an obvious answer. You basically have to resort to asking majority of people how they play and do the same thing.

3 minutes ago, Lightrock said:

Maybe I didn't express myself clear enough. I don't dispute any of the rules. If they say that if a line of sight is drawn over the obstacle, the attack is obstructed even if the bases touch each other, it is so. And if they say that obstructed attack means no engagement, I'm not going to dispute that either.

However, the prerequisite is that line of sight needs to be drawn over the obstacle and it is not at all clear that this is indeed the case. It's not a matter of being "super technical" about anything. Literally speaking LoS is simply NOT drawn over the obstacle if two squadrons touch one another as there's not a single milimeter between them where any part of the obstacle would be visible. I assume that there's some sort of community consensus that attacks on obstacles are always obstructed no matter what but that's all it is - community consensus. It's sadly yet another case of Armada's rules being unclear or unintuitive. And this time even reading the rules verbatim does not give an obvious answer. You basically have to resort to asking majority of people how they play and do the same thing.

• If line of sight is drawn over an obstacle, the attack is obstructed even if the bases of the attacker and defender are touching.

Squad bases are round btw - so there is never any question of whether or not they are actually on the obstacle. This is entirely contrived.

31 minutes ago, Green Knight said:

It's sadly yet another case of Armada's rules being unclear or unintuitive.

Unintuitive: maybe. It makes sense to me, but I could see how you wouldn't expect this interaction.

Unclear: no. The case is literally explicitly detailed in the RRG, I'm not sure how much clearer it could be.

I don't disagree that the RRG could definitely use some improvement, but this isn't really one of those cases imo.

1 hour ago, Lightrock said:

Literally speaking LoS is simply NOT drawn over the obstacle if two squadrons touch one another as there's not a single milimeter between them where any part of the obstacle would be visible.

Literally speaking LoS is simply not drawn at all if two squadrons touch one another. But see where that logic takes you.

On 6/22/2017 at 6:04 AM, Lightrock said:

Maybe I didn't express myself clear enough. I don't dispute any of the rules. If they say that if a line of sight is drawn over the obstacle, the attack is obstructed even if the bases touch each other, it is so. And if they say that obstructed attack means no engagement, I'm not going to dispute that either.

However, the prerequisite is that line of sight needs to be drawn over the obstacle and it is not at all clear that this is indeed the case. It's not a matter of being "super technical" about anything. Literally speaking LoS is simply NOT drawn over the obstacle if two squadrons touch one another as there's not a single milimeter between them where any part of the obstacle would be visible. I assume that there's some sort of community consensus that attacks on obstacles are always obstructed no matter what but that's all it is - community consensus. It's sadly yet another case of Armada's rules being unclear or unintuitive. And this time even reading the rules verbatim does not give an obvious answer. You basically have to resort to asking majority of people how they play and do the same thing.

No matter how close you think you are putting those two squadron bases together there is space between them, however small. Thus you can draw a line between the two squadrons. This line is over an obstacle. QED.