Around here at least...I don't think there's any other p.s. 8 ships around besides Miranda.

Which is awful for Echo.

But....

I think that's all there is out there lately.

I think I'm getting comfortable with the idea of running a 100 point echo squad.

I've had like ten ideas for squads,they tend to be leaning towards a defender or s/f as a second and then a support shuttle of some sort.

I've also tested a buzzsaw echo and 2x X7 deltas which wasn't awful.

I've wanted to work on using echo for years now and just... maybe......now is an ok time to do it.

Meta here has at least one ps9 pilot per list. We live in an anechoic meta T.T

Yeah.plenty of 9 out and about.

I think that's why I can run at 100. Can't do anything about the nines.

Well...kylo could help.

Echo and Whisper with kylo in a bomber still leaves points for ...hmmmm...ops spec and other activities

Wouldn't put kylo in a bomber. Your list has no means of getting crits aside from natural rolls which is potentially just wasting an action.

1 minute ago, Jemmers said:

Wouldn't put kylo in a bomber. Your list has no means of getting crits aside from natural rolls which is potentially just wasting an action.

Just to note something here: with 2 FCS Phantoms, statistically you should be averaging at least one Crit per round.

Just now, RampancyTW said:

Just to note something here: with 2 FCS Phantoms, statistically you should be averaging at least one Crit per round.

Statistically, yes. But not getting the crit off when you need it can really really hurt which is a lot to leave to that chance. I mean when rolling 5 greens I should see an evade too, but I've blanked out enough to not count on it.

I assume you are using ACD which is why you care about PS? 4-5 dice make even 4 agi pretty "dicey" I don't see phantoms ever coming back, 4 hp, wanna be arc dodger, avoidence tank...I'm not sure what it would need. Still like SPA over ACD on echo, just wish it gave a token and not action.

Just now, LordFajubi said:

I assume you are using ACD which is why you care about PS? 4-5 dice make even 4 agi pretty "dicey" I don't see phantoms ever coming back, 4 hp, wanna be arc dodger, avoidence tank...I'm not sure what it would need. Still like SPA over ACD on echo, just wish it gave a token and not action.

top 16 worlds and phantoms are dead. cool story bro.

Just now, Luuke C said:

top 16 worlds and phantoms are dead. cool story bro.

Really bro? Just because a small number of top players make it work you proclaim it's fine. The best could use garbage and likely hit top 16, top 32 at least. Spare me the but top 16 at worlds crap.

I fly a list with 3 PS 8, one being Snap with VI.

Just now, Luuke C said:

top 16 worlds and phantoms are dead. cool story bro.

Phantoms are not dead, just Phantoms below PS 9.

23 minutes ago, LordFajubi said:

Really bro? Just because a small number of top players make it work you proclaim it's fine. The best could use garbage and likely hit top 16, top 32 at least. Spare me the but top 16 at worlds crap.

on the list of problem ships in xwing. phantoms are NOT the bottom, not even close.

9 minutes ago, Luuke C said:

on the list of problem ships in xwing. phantoms are NOT the bottom, not even close.

I agree with you on that.

With Echo, I think the key is that you have to get very very good at dodging with her Decloak move. Ideally your opponent never gets shots off, or only long range ones. So even if you take a couple shots before you recloak you most likely take no damage, hopefully.

I've found that Phantoms can do decent by staying at long range and just leveraging their natural 4 dice attack to muscle through defenses.

Echo is super reliant on your piloting skill. I've had a lot of success and a lot of failures trying to make her work. She slays vs. non-meta.

Phantoms pretty much need Kylo support to be viable these days. Echo even more so because of all the PS9s (Fenn, Dengar, Quickdraw). I'm sure I'm not the only one that came across that crazy Echo/Kylo shuttle list at Worlds. It was ingenious and did pretty well.

Echo ought to be impervious to bombs as well.

Between kylo fixing the p.s. issue and gitting guder at decloak/movement I just think it's not an awful time for me to use my favorite ship

I've been dabbling with Echo alongside the RAC/Kylo/Palp squad that someone posted in the Store Championship results thread. RAC damages the cockpit, and then Echo comes in to clean up.

Sadly, it runs into the same "green dice" problems as before. My last game, the killshot came on a R3 shot from a Quadjumper into a cloaked, unfocused Echo.

1 hour ago, Velvetelvis said:

Echo ought to be impervious to bombs as well.

Between kylo fixing the p.s. issue and gitting guder at decloak/movement I just think it's not an awful time for me to use my favorite ship

Not impervious. It's fairly straight forward to avoid getting bombed, but it has a massive effect on your movement. This leads to turns without shots, and taking some positional risks you otherwise wouldn't.

Quite frankly, decloak shoulnt cause a bomb to go off.

Decloak isnt a "maneuver" in any form, its literally "I'm actually over here...." so unless i land on it why the hell does the bomb (or obstacle effect for that matter) go off when the template overlaps? I didnt move, i just showed my correct positioning.

Well, that might thematically make some sense. But you had to get to that position in some manner, and let's just say you took the route of the decloak template. Because of decloaking timing that is rarely a concern anyway.

19 minutes ago, Vineheart01 said:

Quite frankly, decloak shoulnt cause a bomb to go off.

Decloak isnt a "maneuver" in any form, its literally "I'm actually over here...." so unless i land on it why the hell does the bomb (or obstacle effect for that matter) go off when the template overlaps? I didnt move, i just showed my correct positioning.

Because in showing your correct positioning, you caused the proximity sensors in the bombs to switch from "Nothing nearby" to "Threat detected!"

...you can easily have a proximity mine or the narrower side of a conner net sit under that 2speed template and not even be right next to either the original position or the "real" position of the phantom.
Obviously if i land on it, it should go off.

13 minutes ago, Calibri Garamond said:

Well, that might thematically make some sense. But you had to get to that position in some manner, and let's just say you took the route of the decloak template. Because of decloaking timing that is rarely a concern anyway.

Exactly. Thematically, Vineheart01 is right ... there are a lot of those issues with cloaking. (For example, by the same logic, a cloaked Phantom could never bump.)

Allowances are made for game-play reasons.

Echo and Intel Agent is super good at avoiding bombs.