Okay. I've had 2 games so far with 5 scarif defenders that faced Miranda Doni with Bombs, Twin Laser Turret, and Sabine (not necessarily on board, but on the field). In both cases, the squad has been unceremoniously murdered by a combination of a cluster mine kill and range 3 TLT shots.

I'm not going to change the squad (so "add this card/pilot in" advice may be nice, but isn't going to help), but I know I do need to change tactics .

Thoughts:

• When I used to play against Dash all the time with TIE fighters, I tended to deploy in a "Dragnet" so he'd have ships coming from behind and ahead wherever he went. Might be worth it here - I wouldn't want to break down into much less than pairs, though
• Miranda is both incredibly manoeuvrable and a shield regenerating ship. I therefore must pick on her first, whilst I still have my full squad. The problem is, she's a lot harder to pin down than the other elements (I've seen Leebo in one squad, and TLT Y-wing/Ashoka in another).
• How do I plan deployment of asteroids (my default is "as loose as possible" to allow for the TIE striker's high minimum speed and lack of really tight, slow turns) and initial approach. A big problem is that I can't afford to 'chase' Miranda as a pack, because a single seismic charge can easily do three or more damage across the squad?
• One trick might be to close on the 'other' elements, then do a mass turn towards Miranda just before contact. I used to do this with TIE fighters against aces quite often - line up on Palpatine's shuttle, and head towards it, then do an en masse speed 1 turn towards one of the aces as they came in to attack. It's surprising how often that seems to work, and a striker has the bank 1/speed 1 turn to 'hook round' even more so, if there's obstacle space (using small rocks may be good!)

Anyone with experience on recommended deployment/approach with wisdom to share is welcome!

i haven't played with (or against Strikers) but I'm a TLT Bombing Miranda player.

The strategy i use as Miranda (which is effective) is to set up in the middle of the board with a lot of Rocks right next to me which i have gotten really good at navigating and drawing my opponents into it. if i was to play against Miranda with mines i would spread the rocks out as far as i could (i use mines and effectively try and put you between a rock and a hard place ) If you are able to draw her into the open and block her on her initial move then she is unable to slam or perform an action and you can open up with the rest of your squad (just a point, K Wings HATE tractor beams)

The other option is to focus down the Wingman first and then run away!! lol

I think you need weight of fire, having the whole group fire. At p.s. 3 - they're fairly fragile, and you have to plan on losing one before it fires.

I'd use Debris - because if there's one thing miranda doesn't like, it's to be stressed.

7 minutes ago, Ravncat said:

I think you need weight of fire, having the whole group fire. At p.s. 3 - they're fairly fragile, and you have to plan on losing one before it fires.

I'd use Debris - because if there's one thing miranda doesn't like, it's to be stressed.

I'd forgotten about Debris (its not used much round here)

Yeah, Miranda hates stress, so much so i run her with Chopper just to be on the safe side lol.

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but I'm a TLT Bombing Miranda player.

Obviously I am now legally obligated to hate you and everything you stand for. However, thanks for the input!

Yeah, spreading out rocks will be key. TIE strikers are close to (but not quite as good as) K-wings for big sweeping turns, but they don't do in-close turns like TIE interceptors.

Yes, Strikers can duck and weave with the best of them, but to get mileage out of my 1-3 extra ships, I need to be flying them in pairs or a big mob, and that means the traditional swarm problems with tight corridors of rocks, whilst Miranda can slip through gaps easily (that hard 2 turn/hard 2 turn around a small rock is especially annoying)

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The other option is to focus down the Wingman first and then run away!! lol

I've not played her in a time limited game so far, but I'm not convinced running away will help. Strikers are manoeuvrable but not actually that fast (at a dead straight run they're no faster than a TIE fighter), and with a range 3 turret, and my weakness to long range shots, strikers will have trouble running away. More importantly, I'm nto sure if she's more than half the squad or not - certainly a lot of people seem to put the odd missile on her.

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I think you need weight of fire, having the whole group fire. At p.s. 3 - they're fairly fragile, and you have to plan on losing one before it fires.

True, but I'm trying to figure out if that's best done by flying as a group, or splitting into two groups and converging. With two groups, I risk getting picked on by element, but with one big group, Miranda can just turn and burn, and if I chase straight after her I take mines and bombs, and if I try and cut in front of her.....she's faster than I am whilst SLAMing, or else I take TLT fire in the flank. Hence I think - but am happy to be given advice - that two-to-three converging groups is probably best.

The annoying interaction of Miranda's ability with Lightweight frame hurts too - she can use her 2-dice "give me a shield back" shot, and I only get 2 green dice to stop it with.

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I'd forgotten about Debris (its not used much round here)

Definitely. My opponent used 3 debris, whilst I used 3 rocks (largely so we could easily identify whose was whose afterwards) - frankly 6 debris would have been better for me - not losing shots would have been better, and a reduced chance of damage would be nice. Plus a TIE striker has a nice party piece when facing debris - if you can cross the debris with your adaptive ailerons move, then perform a green move, you can gain and then immediately shed a stress during the activation phase, and still get your action. Snuggling up tight behind a debris cloud then zooming through it in the following turn has caught a few opponents off guard before now.

Who's her wingman?

Either way blocking is your path to victory but it will be a very uphill struggle.

2 groups is fine, but then you have the task of making sure they converge , at the same time. you'll need both groups to keep the pressure on. The trick is not to get lured into a chase against miranda. It can be tough - using debris, board edges and corners can help too.

4 minutes ago, thespaceinvader said:

Who's her wingman?

Either way blocking is your path to victory but it will be a very uphill struggle.

As noted above - I've seen two; one a TLT Y-wing and Ashoka Tano carrying Sabine (annoying with a purely PS3 squad), the other, Leebo with Outrider, HLC and Lone Wolf.

Agreed on blocking, but it's a lot harder than blocking Aces with TIE fighters - I have a lot less warm bodies (5 rather than 8) meaning losing one to the block, and possibly another before it shoots is a big dent in my firepower. Plus, blocking Miranda hurts - if I block from the front, getting clear with my aileron move is hard, and if I don't a TIE striker's basic dial isn't fast enough to avoid the inevitable seismic charge.

Plus, because the 'boost' is generally speed 2-3, if I overcook it fractionally and don't block, where a boosting ace would get tokens and then still give me a range 1 shot, here Miranda just slams straight overhead and leaves me a set of cluster mines to remember her by.

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The trick is not to get lured into a chase against miranda. It can be tough - using debris, board edges and corners can help too.

Now this is the real key. At least once in the game, I was pointed vaguely at Miranda, who was in turn pointed at me, but I was sure if I went after her she'd just turn, slam turn, drop mines. So I broke off, to try and come back in again. But I don't really see get how to close to range where I can do meaningful damage (I see C-3PO on her annoyingly often, which combined with her ability means I need to land 3 hits in a turn for anything to stick. That's why I was wondering about breaking off pairs - so if Miranda turns away, two chase (but slowly so as not to run into surprises) whilst the other two try and get ahead of her (not easy, because as noted she's faster than I am).

So, as an example, you've got 3 strikers left, more or less in a line of battle in the right hand channel of the board, about 1/3 of the way up from your board edge. Miranda is coming the other way, also about 1/3 of the board width in. There are rocks pretty much in a 'boxcars pattern' across the board, with the closest to Miranda close enough that she can 2 turn, slam 2 turn around it, turning it into a chase. I could try and position a striker to block, but I'm not sure if it'd work (judging distances of a straight 1 bank 3 combination isn't easy for me yet). More importantly, it would plant the striker lined up straight with the rock Miranda is likely to loop around, and would give me only 2 attackers rather than 3 (and with existing damage, more likely only 1 if she choses to slow and shoot instead.

What would be, in your view, the best overall plan?

WIth ahsoka around even blocking is tough.

This is never going to be an easy ride for you.

Best plan overall, would be another list. If you must stick with that one, I'd play it as I'd play against Dash - spread your net wide, try to keep things staggered such that the spaces between the rocks are full of ships so there's nowhere useful to SLAM into, and go for blocks early and often. But I honestly doubt it's a matchup that's easily winnable. Miranda should be able to solo 5 Strikers pretty easily.

I can't really say, because I haven't really flown that match - I'd play a bunch of games with a friend - load up the most annoying miranda build, and run all 5 strikers vs Miranda. How hard is it to kill her then? What kind of approach do you need? Does setting up a staggered approach - IE she can't boost past everyone because rearguard catches her... etc.

Once you can confidently kill a single miranda - drop down to 4 strikers vs miranda alone, then 3, then 2. IF you can't kill miranda 2v1 but you can 3v1, you KNOW that you have to have 3 strikers in endgame to kill Miranda. If you can't do it with 3, then you know you need 4. This information is really important, because it tells you if you need to kill miranda first - regardless of the incoming punishment - or if you can just en-masse the strikers against miranda's wingmates.

Practice all the scenarios , and you'll figure out which approach to killing miranda is best. I can only speculate, as i've never flown more than 3 strikers - and i've been super lucky when it comes to miranda - the hardest time I had, was when I had a lower cost miranda, fighting a higher cost miranda - and I had initiative, I could've won, since I had more health - and enemy miranda was at 2 hull, BUT - time limits are a thing. (oh how I wish any ship above 40 points could score half points ....)

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I can't really say, because I haven't really flown that match

Fair response.

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I'd play a bunch of games with a friend - load up the most annoying miranda build, and run all 5 strikers vs Miranda. How hard is it to kill her then? What kind of approach do you need? Does setting up a staggered approach - IE she can't boost past everyone because rearguard catches her... etc.

Yeah. To be honest, this is the main thing. I've not been getting any games regularly recently, so I really need the time to invest in strategy test sessions to git gud.

Sadly, I only have a tablet - so the easy response (Vassal) isn't an option.

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IF you can't kill miranda 2v1 but you can 3v1, you KNOW that you have to have 3 strikers in endgame to kill Miranda. If you can't do it with 3, then you know you need 4. This information is really important, because it tells you if you need to kill miranda first - regardless of the incoming punishment - or if you can just en-masse the strikers against miranda's wingmates.

Indeed. My gut reflex, after the last two games, is that Miranda falls into the Lone Wolf Luke, Outrider Dash Rendar, Norra Wexley "You have to die first at all costs" category.

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(oh how I wish any ship above 40 points could score half points ....)

At the risk of sour grapes tainting good advice, I agree. I understand why the "half points" rule was introduced for large ships - because "points fortresses" which could survive a game on one hull and be worth no credit were unbalancing - but with ships like Miranda Doni, Norra Wexley, and (soon) Nym, you've looking at ships with the same damage capacity as large ships (9-10 hits to kill), the same sized upgrade bars and often shield regeneration to boot, but which don't give up points because they're small ships.

31 minutes ago, Magnus Grendel said:

At the risk of sour grapes tainting good advice, I agree. I understand why the "half points" rule was introduced for large ships - because "points fortresses" which could survive a game on one hull and be worth no credit were unbalancing - but with ships like Miranda Doni, Norra Wexley, and (soon) Nym, you've looking at ships with the same damage capacity as large ships (9-10 hits to kill), the same sized upgrade bars and often shield regeneration to boot, but which don't give up points because they're small ships.

Given the math isn't exactly rocket science I always wondered why they didn't just go to the formula below.

(hull+shields)[remaining]/(hull+shields)[starting]*(list points)+X*(small ship kills)+Y*(large ship kills)

X could be something like 1-3 pts and Y could be say 2-5 pts.

That way you get credit for degrading the fighting power of the enemy not just eliminating ships.