So there are a bunch of erratas that are nerfing everything. (You'd think they would put a buff to slicer tools in there or something). But lets go over the big ones.

• Demolisher, not really a nerf but just something to patch up an upgrade combo exploit, Pen & Ink erratas like these I am alright with.
• General Reiken, Can't say surprised to see this. Reiken becomes once per round so instead of unlimited uses you can get a most of 4 uses from him as it is unlikely you will be losing ships the 1st turn and the last turn doesn't matter too much.
• Major Rhymer, reduced from medium range to close range. Still a range increase but shorten a bit. The medium range band is the smallest margin on the measuring tool. But now that it is a Pen & Ink change you might as well burn the card and just use a printout.
• Flotillas, the nerf many were wanting to see and the remove of the lifeboats. However some were hopping for more than that as they would be treated more like squadrons and not count for tabling. Still this is more of a rules errata and not a pen & ink change on the cards so I'm okay with this.
• Turbolaser rerout circuits. This seems more like a buff. Turn a crit into 2 hits. Still pretty good if you ask me since armada damage deck doesn't have that many (% wise) critical effects that add extra damage.

At least the Armada nerf was even handed; the X-Wing nerf was weighted heavy and half-done.

17 minutes ago, clanofwolves said:

At least the Armada nerf was even handed; the X-Wing nerf was weighted heavy and half-done.

I would like some buffs to be included with FAQs and balance corrections.

This was one of the largest and most significant updates of all time... It rivals X-Wing's big Palp/Defender/etc nerf awhile back... nerfing everything in the meta.

Don't bother me though... I fly Arquitens and I wreck face with them..... If anything I'm actually buffed now by proxy.

8 minutes ago, Crabbok said:

This was one of the largest and most significant updates of all time... It rivals X-Wing's big Palp/Defender/etc nerf awhile back... nerfing everything in the meta.

Don't bother me though... I fly Arquitens and I wreck face with them..... If anything I'm actually buffed now by proxy.

Video coming up soon?

Just now, Marinealver said:

Video coming up soon?

Should be up in less than 5 minutes. Actually did a good battle tonight using some of the new errata. That'll be up tomorrow.

1 hour ago, Marinealver said:

• Turbolaser rerout circuits. This seems more like a buff. Turn a crit into 2 hits. Still pretty good if you ask me since armada damage deck doesn't have that many (% wise) critical effects that add extra damage.

TRCs were always change a die into a Crit OR two hits. The change (and it's definitely a nerf) is that you have to exhaust TRCs to do it, so now it's a once-per-round card.

And this is relevant in the X-Wing forum because..?

2 hours ago, Holmelund said:

And this is relevant in the X-Wing forum because..?

It gives people a reason to whinge (about the previous X-wing FAQ), and speculate (on what will/won't be nerfed in a possible upcoming X-wing FAQ). You know the two staples of any forum.

The really interesting questions for me are:

1: Were there any cases in Armada where a base ship was dramatically undercosted the way the JM5k is?

2: If so, what if anything was done about it?

27 minutes ago, thespaceinvader said:

The really interesting questions for me are:

1: Were there any cases in Armada where a base ship was dramatically undercosted the way the JM5k is?

2: If so, what if anything was done about it?

It's a little harder to tell that kind of thing in Armada. While there's certainly a defined competitive meta, with Armada having a smaller player base, smaller ship and upgrade pool, and a longer play time than X-Wing, it hasn't become quite as focused.

The playtime is a relevant factor, I think. With Armada taking 2+ hours a game, I get a single game in on a weekday evening, while I can usually get three games of X-Wing in the same slot. This means I can test the weaknesses and iterate through a few different versions of a list quite rapidly in X-Wing, while doing the same process in Armada takes a lot longer.

Yes, I completely agree elephants are grey and therefore all grey things are elephants.

42 minutes ago, thespaceinvader said:

The really interesting questions for me are:

1: Were there any cases in Armada where a base ship was dramatically undercosted the way the JM5k is?

2: If so, what if anything was done about it?

There was 3 topics on Armada that were in serious contention of the forums.

1. The squadron heavy meta which was spearheaded by Rhymer and the Rhymer ball and aggravated by traits like intel and relay. Some people preferred the meta where squadrons were only an option (even if it wasn't a good one). Soon it was clear you would need some squadron formation be it bomber of anti-bomber screen.
2. Flotillas, they were the cheapest squadron commands per points spent and the cheapest ships to pad your number of activation. Because the meta was so squadron heavy some people considered flotillas a must have as well since you need the squadron commands to make use of the squadrons. Not having flotillas in your list was the same as not having squadrons, you lose. Worse was many people decided to use a flotilla as their flag ship putting the commander. Most commanders had table wide effects (just like Emperor Palpatine). So a cheap flotilla would have the commander on and it would be in a corner away from battle.
3. Speaking of Commanders, Commander Reiken dominated the top Tables of Worlds. You thought Jumpmasters were bad and Imperials were suffering in X-wing? Nearly the entire cut had rebel lists and every rebel list had Reiken in it. Armada was truly the less balanced game according to worlds 2017.

So all of these things were addressed and by addressed I mean dragged into an alley and hit repeatedly with a nerf bat. Rymer's range was reduced, Flotillas can no longer be used as flagships, and Reiken was reduced to "once per round" and since Armada has only 6 rounds it means Reiken only triggers 4 times. Also that trigger is probably automatic so your opponent can dictate who is "zombied".

Yeah the calls for Nerfs on the Armada thread was just as bad as the nerf calls on the X-wing forums.

Just now, Marinealver said:

There was 3 topics on Armada that were in serious contention of the forums.

1. The squadron heavy meta which was spearheaded by Rhymer and the Rhymer ball and aggravated by traits like intel and relay. Some people preferred the meta where squadrons were only an option (even if it wasn't a good one). Soon it was clear you would need some squadron formation be it bomber of anti-bomber screen.
2. Flotillas, they were the cheapest squadron commands per points spent and the cheapest ships to pad your number of activation. Because the meta was so squadron heavy some people considered flotillas a must have as well since you need the squadron commands to make use of the squadrons. Not having flotillas in your list was the same as not having squadrons, you lose. Worse was many people decided to use a flotilla as their flag ship putting the commander. Most commanders had table wide effects (just like Emperor Palpatine). So a cheap flotilla would have the commander on and it would be in a corner away from battle.
3. Speaking of Commanders, Commander Reiken dominated the top Tables of Worlds. You thought Jumpmasters were bad and Imperials were suffering in X-wing? Nearly the entire cut had rebel lists and every rebel list had Reiken in it. Armada was truly the less balanced game according to worlds 2017.

So all of these things were addressed and by addressed I mean dragged into an alley and hit repeatedly with a nerf bat. Rymer's range was reduced, Flotillas can no longer be used as flagships, and Reiken was reduced to "once per round" and since Armada has only 6 rounds it means Reiken only triggers 4 times. Also that trigger is probably automatic so your opponent can dictate who is "zombied".

Yeah the calls for Nerfs on the Armada thread was just as bad as the nerf calls on the X-wing forums.

That doesn't really answer the question - I'm not really up at all on the Armada rules, but the real issue with fixing the Jump is that it doesn't have special abilities to amend - it's Just. Too. Cheap. So it either needs points changes, slot changes, dial changes, or all three (and the latter is probably out of the question, errating dials just seems likely to be too complicated).

The Flotillas one sounds closest, to me - it seems like they kind of removed an upgrade slot option from Flotillas?

2 minutes ago, thespaceinvader said:

That doesn't really answer the question - I'm not really up at all on the Armada rules, but the real issue with fixing the Jump is that it doesn't have special abilities to amend - it's Just. Too. Cheap. So it either needs points changes, slot changes, dial changes, or all three (and the latter is probably out of the question, errating dials just seems likely to be too complicated).

The Flotillas one sounds closest, to me - it seems like they kind of removed an upgrade slot option from Flotillas?

Here let me pull out my Armada Forum to X-wing Forum translator.

• Floatillas were Jumpmasters,
• Reiken was Atanni Mindlink
• Rymer was Biggs

Does that clear things up for you?

5 minutes ago, Marinealver said:

Here let me pull out my Armada Forum to X-wing Forum translator.

• Floatillas were Jumpmasters,
• Reiken was Atanni Mindlink
• Rymer was Biggs

Does that clear things up for you?

See, I would have had Reiken and Biggs the other way around...

4 hours ago, thespaceinvader said:

That doesn't really answer the question - I'm not really up at all on the Armada rules, but the real issue with fixing the Jump is that it doesn't have special abilities to amend - it's Just. Too. Cheap. So it either needs points changes, slot changes, dial changes, or all three (and the latter is probably out of the question, errating dials just seems likely to be too complicated).

The Flotillas one sounds closest, to me - it seems like they kind of removed an upgrade slot option from Flotillas?

Essentially, yes. The Rebel Flotilla, GR-75 medium transport is 18 points. The next cheapest flotilla is the Gozanti at 23, then another GR-75 at 24, and the last Gozanti at 28 points. Out of a 400 point fleet, you can easily squeeze in 3 of the 18 point flotillas easy in a rebel list and still have a viable fleet. Unlike X-wing, you alternate activations, so having the ability to out activate your opponent wins battles so you aren't fighting at close range.

Add on that flotillas don't have to plan ahead like the larger ships, can activate two squadrons a turn, and have a defense token (rather than green dice, you just get a number of tokens with certain effects to defend with) that discards one attack against them.

1 minute ago, ricefrisbeetreats said:

Essentially, yes. The Rebel Flotilla, GR-75 medium transport is 18 points. The next cheapest flotilla is the Gozanti at 23, then another GR-75 at 24, and the last Gozanti at 28 points. Out of a 400 point fleet, you can easily squeeze in 3 of the 18 point flotillas easy in a rebel list and still have a viable fleet. Unlike X-wing, you alternate activations, so having the ability to out activate your opponent wins battles so you aren't fighting at close range.

Add on that flotillas don't have to plan ahead like the larger ships, can activate two squadrons a turn, and have a defense token (rather than green dice, you just get a number of tokens with certain effects to defend with) that discards one attack against them.

From the sound of things they didn't fix the Flotillas by point changes, but by slot changes, correct?

Just now, thespaceinvader said:

From the sound of things they didn't fix the Flotillas by point changes, but by slot changes, correct?

Yes, sorry. The effective way to use them was to stick your admiral on it, fly it to the far end of the map to avoid combat (and if you do get shot, scatter it). So while they're still the cheapest points-wise for activations, it's forcing you to bring one larger ship for your commander. One less slot for all flotillas.

3 minutes ago, ricefrisbeetreats said:

Yes, sorry. The effective way to use them was to stick your admiral on it, fly it to the far end of the map to avoid combat (and if you do get shot, scatter it). So while they're still the cheapest points-wise for activations, it's forcing you to bring one larger ship for your commander. One less slot for all flotillas.

Which raises the question: how many slots do you have to knock off before the Jumpmaster is balanced?

The EPT from the scout, certainly. The Salvaged Astro moves out to the title. Maybe one or both of the torpedo slots to the title as well?

2 minutes ago, thespaceinvader said:

Which raises the question: how many slots do you have to knock off before the Jumpmaster is balanced?

The EPT from the scout, certainly. The Salvaged Astro moves out to the title. Maybe one or both of the torpedo slots to the title as well?

I think the problem falls to updating cards. There's no precedent of removing slots. Commander slots were similar to modification slots in that there is no symbol on the ship card to indicate you could use one on them.

If I were to tweak the Jumpmaster, the minimum I'd do is remove the Elite Pilot Talent slot from the generic ship.

Nah, I think the jump needs more comprehensive editing.

If they're only going to fix one thing, the red pen needs to hit the underlying cost of all platforms. I don't know what the number is, but it needs to go up.

My dream is to kill PWT and Salvaged Astro and put both effects on the title along with +1 ATK, though.

8 hours ago, Jarval said:

It's a little harder to tell that kind of thing in Armada. While there's certainly a defined competitive meta, with Armada having a smaller player base, smaller ship and upgrade pool, and a longer play time than X-Wing, it hasn't become quite as focused.

The playtime is a relevant factor, I think. With Armada taking 2+ hours a game, I get a single game in on a weekday evening, while I can usually get three games of X-Wing in the same slot. This means I can test the weaknesses and iterate through a few different versions of a list quite rapidly in X-Wing, while doing the same process in Armada takes a lot longer.

Not only that, but there are also Objectives in Armada, a larger playing space, and 400pt fleets which means you can squeeze in a lot more of the available options than you can in a narrow 100pt X-Wing list.

It really makes them Apples to Oranges when it comes to comparing how "balanced" or how "similiar" or how much a "meta" either has. Though, as someone who has played both games competitively since their release, I would say that Armada is the more balanced game and on-table decisions matter a lot more in Armada in determining the outcome of a game than they do in X-Wing. I still love both games, though.

7 hours ago, FTS Gecko said:

See, I would have had Reiken and Biggs the other way around...

See, i would have had Reiken with Biggs

Because an ESCORT staying on for the whole round even after it dies is the dumbest thing ever

Honestly,, these erratas were pretty necessary. Rhymer could already hit ships from over 150% of the range ruler in distance, which would only have been augmented with the new Imperial Carrier title that moves unengaged squadrons

There's nothing in the Armada errata directly correlating to the jm5k being underpriced or having an ept

These are more like the deadeye, manny, x7 and palp nerfs,: all special abilities that were too easy to apply for how powerful they were. Only riekan and rhymer got the palp treatment, though, everyone else still seems quite strong

So no precedent yet set for hard errating costs

Armada doesn't yet have as many combo effects regarding upgrade cards as X Wing does. Upgrade cards are important in Armada, but not to the level they are in X Wing. So Armada doesn't really have a problem on the level of the Jumpmaster, because the Jumpmaster's issue comes down to what upgrades you can fit on it (pretty much All), nor does Armada have the equivalent of a low PS cheap pilot getting an EPT slot. In Armada it is common to run capital ships near naked, or at least sparingly install upgrades, so you can use those extra points for more activations (flotillas) or more squadrons to screen your caps or use as bombers.

In Armada, even if you can run some really awesome combo by loading up one or two ships with upgrades, you're giving up so much with those points that it either is actually a negative, or at least isn't game breaking.